Are Atheists Air Brushing History?

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Gigatronix

 

their atheist government is implicit in the decision:

Perhaps so, but Atheism itself doesn't suggest anything about the value of life, only the absence of a god. The government may use Atheism as a platform to further their absurd agendas, but that doesn't make Atheism an accomplice to their crimes. If there are 10 governments that perpetuate the kind of atrocities you describe, and they are all Atheist governments, that still doesn't make Atheism the culprit. There is a deeper agenda at work in those governments. We can take just about an religion,idea, philosophy, whatever, and twist and contort it so that we can use it to further our own selfish agendas. That is a human tendency that has no roots in any belief system.

reply to post by melatonin


Jesus came to make that kind of thing unnecessary.
Obsolete. He made the stoning of women a thing of the past.
He made lots of positive changes. Its people who corrupt it.
It's unbelief that corrupts it.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by Damien_Hell

 

Welcome to the real world.

On July 25, 1978, Louise Joy Brown, the world's first successful "test-tube" baby was born in Great Britain. Though the technology that made her conception possible was heralded as a triumph in medicine and science, it also caused many to consider the possibilities of future ill-use.

testtube

Damn whammy couldn't have waited till I was done typing lol ha ha

reply to post by Conspiriology


Hey just helping out a little form the side lines I can not afford to get quite as wrapped up in it as I have been. I feel better today but the drugs I am on, were making me wig last night. Chemotherapy is not a cake walk.

reply to post by Damien_Hell


I'm not willing to repeat myself. I'm done with that particular topic.
You're just trolling me now.

Originally posted by Gigatronix

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Gigatronix

 

their atheist government is implicit in the decision:

Perhaps so, but Atheism itself doesn't suggest anything about the value of life, only the absence of a god. The government may use Atheism as a platform to further their absurd agendas, but that doesn't make Atheism an accomplice to their crimes. If there are 10 governments that perpetuate the kind of atrocities you describe, and they are all Atheist governments, that still doesn't make Atheism the culprit. There is a deeper agenda at work in those governments. We can take just about an religion,idea, philosophy, whatever, and twist and contort it so that we can use it to further our own selfish agendas. That is a human tendency that has no roots in any belief system.

I don't know if thier is a "link" where anyone can do that to either. I think this kind of thing has to be looked at in either a case by case issue but here is what HAS happened. Atheist DID go on this campaign to use the crusades and the witch trials, hitler etc and link the common denominator to religion. I mean you see it everywhere on the internet these days they keep saying it over and over. So in a knee jerk reaction and in direct rebuttal I would think, Christians started doing a little sutdy of thier own.

Now we have this mess.

- Con

Originally posted by undo
Jesus came to make that kind of thing unnecessary.
Obsolete. He made the stoning of women a thing of the past.
He made lots of positive changes. Its people who corrupt it.
It's unbelief that corrupts it.

Doesn't really matter.

The innocent first borns were still deemed unworthy of this sacred life stuff. The same god who said stone women to death, later said, fowgeddabowtit don't stone women. That's some cool absolutes, whammy

So, using your style of argument, we could say: Theism = dead babies. Atheism = dead babies. If you want like.

We could just accept that it's nothing to do with atheism, but rather socio-cultural and economic factors, and I'll ignore egyptian first-borns.

Then everyone's happy.

Nothing in atheism puts the life of a girl boy baby above that of a boy girl [i'm gender confused, heh]. Indeed, it says nothing about killing babies.

[edit on 23-3-2008 by melatonin]

Originally posted by undo
What I'm trying to do is prove that if life has no sacred value, and there's no big guy in the sky who will ask you to account for your actions, this kind of atrocity will be global and it will be rationalized away when the correct answers are so very simple!

If life has no value, yes atrocities would continue and grow. However, the word sacred is not a neccessary part of this debate. Value and respect is, and it's something that religious people and Atheists share, for the most part. Those who don't share that value and respect, it's not because of their faith or lack of faith, it's because they are just ignorant, plain and simple. I don't need a "big guy in the sky holding me accountable" to keep me from murdering,stealing, lying and the rest. I just know those things are wrong and that are consequences for doing those things. Nor do I need that big guy in the sky to tell me whats right and wrong, I figured it out just fine, as do many other people.

I'm not trying to upset you Undo, I just would like for you to lay the blame and responsibility for these horrible things at the feet of those responsible, men. The absence of faith does not open the door to evil, it just doesn't. even though you may strongly disagree with my beliefs, it doesn't make me evil or morally bankrupt, and any evil I may commit cannot be attributed to my belief, only my poor judgement and human weakness.

Originally posted by melatonin
Why are we stuck in infanticide?

If we take the bible at face value, wiping out first-borns and kids can also be associated with theism.

Wasn't it all first borns in egypt? Life is just so sacred, except for the unworthy.

Wow you are so wrong here mel.

It was the evil Egyptians wiping out all first borns. Not Gods people. That was the enemy. Moses was hidden away and then put in a basket on the river so he survived.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


He means during the plagues

Atheist DID go on this campaign to use the crusades and the witch trials, hitler etc and link the common denominator to religion.

Not Atheisms fault, thats human political agenda for you. Don't blame my belief system for what a-holes with power-hungry agendas do, and I wont blame yours. Like i have said before, religion and atheism are not enemies, people using those things to mask their real prejudices are.



[edit on 23-3-2008 by Gigatronix]
[edit by Cuhail to fix quote]

[edit on 3/23/2008 by Cuhail]

well my personal studies lead me to believe the first born of egypt were hybrids and that at the time, this was an issue carried over from before the flood.

when i say hybrids, i don't mean two human races mixed together, but hybrids as in "the children of the angels", an extra-terrestrial-human combo that lead to horrible suffering and almost the entire annihilation of every human on the planet. It resurfaced after the flood because Enki warned the King of Sumer, who was just such a hybrid. the epic of gilgamesh indicates it was a tradition to impregnate brides on the eves of their weddings so that their first born was a "hybrid" (also called a nephilim, a rephaim, and so on).

this, of course, is based on those silly ancient texts that don't mean anything and are based on nothing but fantasy that archaeology has the annoying tendency to dig up out of the ground and prove existed even in the face of the hundreds of texts that have been written since the enlightenment claiming it all to be a fairy tale. (and that was a run - on sentence that my english teacher would frown upon)

[edit on 23-3-2008 by undo]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
It was the evil Egyptians wiping out all first borns. Not Gods people. That was the enemy. Moses was hidden away and then put in a basket on the river so he survived.

I suppose I could say, 'and the evil egyptians were atheists?'

But, wsn't it one of the plagues on egypt? You could easily correct me here, as I'm much less than an expert on the bible.

reply to post by melatonin


The Egyptians believed in Rah and Set and Bastet, and ALL those awesome gods you learn about from Stargate SG-1
And your right, one of the plagues was the death of the first born child, the Egyptians just killed ALL the children, but I highly doubt thats true, things tend to get exaggerated over 2,000 years or it was just a good old fashion lie, I'm not partial to either

[edit on 23-3-2008 by Damien_Hell]

reply to post by Damien_Hell


OK But during the plagues no people killed any people. It was the plague. Big difference!!

If God is administering the justice then no one can judge. Especially atheists because they will be forced to assume that no one at all is responsible - because God doesn't exist... right? ohhhhh or is it only when you want to blame him for something?

[edit on 3/23/2008 by Bigwhammy]

reply to post by Damien_Hell


Ra was Enki
Enki was the Serpent in the Garden (The biblical Satan).

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
. Especially atheists because they will be forced to assume that no one at all is responsible - because God doesn't exist... right?

ohhhhh or it it only when you want to blame him

Conundrum!
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?!

reply to post by Bigwhammy


We're talking about your beliefs, not whether god is real or not
undo it was the chicken and Rah was the sun god, if anyone was Satan it was Set

[edit on 23-3-2008 by Damien_Hell]

[edit on 23-3-2008 by Damien_Hell]

Originally posted by Damien_Hell
The Egyptians believed in Rah and Set and Bastet, and ALL those awesome gods you learn about from Stargate SG-1

So that's even more theists who have have no issue killing innocent new borns.

So, according to the arguments being used we can haz: atheism = dead babies; theism = dead babies.

Surprising we ever made it so far with all that killing of babies.

Did they do it in SG-1 too? I know the wraith don't. They keep them till they're bigger to feed off. Bet the wraith are atheists..

[edit on 23-3-2008 by melatonin]

Originally posted by Damien_Hell
reply to post by Bigwhammy

 

We're talking about your beliefs, not whether god is real or not

i think we are also talking your beliefs, and mel's beliefs, etc.
as an atheist, since you don't believe God exists anyway, no one died since God sent the Angel of Death. lol