9/11 conspiracy help vs. DAD

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
Ultima....all you do is IGNORE evidence. Typical behavior of a No-Planer.

To bad you or anyone else who believes tghe official story has no real evidence.

Oh, i never stated anythign about there not being any planes, please do not twist what i state it seems so immature.

Originally posted by CaptainObviousPlease provide evidence that I have ignored pertaining to 911 Jeff. You may be hard pressed.

Well for 1 you cannot post any physical evidence or reports that match parts found to any of the 9/11 planes.

Second you have no actual video or photo of Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon


[edit on 23-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

The us government has amitted to having red flags on this and did nothing why is that captain obvious. Did they believe there was nothing to worry about, where they aware of the plan and just let it play out, where they apart of the plan or did they just let it play out so they could start a warmonger campaign

Originally posted by mullet35
The us government has amitted to having red flags on this and did nothing why is that captain obvious.

Yes people do not talk about all the prior warnings the government had from several domestic and foreign intell agencies.

reply to post by ULTIMA1


Ultima.... using your logic..... Did you see video of the space shuttle Columbia disaster? Have you seen parts that were scattered across several states match the ID numbers? Have you seen any body parts? Huh? Have you?

I didn't think so.

But captain obvious why did the US ignore all red lags about sept 11. The US has the highest level of intell on the planet. Yet with all their intell and agencies from outside america all saying something was up they did nothing.

reply to post by lostineuphoria


Show you Dad Norman Mineta's testomony at the 9/11 Commission Hearing where he says a young man came into the presidential emergency bunker and was informing Cheney that the plane was 50 miles, 30 miles, 10 miles out.


Then ask him why on earth did Cheney NOT have the Pentagon evacuated?



This may at least get your father thinking. IMO there is absolutely no excuse for this behaviour whatsoever as Cheney's negligent actions cost many more lives than need be.

This does not prove a government conspiracy but it does show that the VP of the US was completely and utterly incompetent and should be sacked and charged with criminal negligence.

I don't believe a missile or anything other than flight 77 hit the Pentagon but I would still argue:

Hanjour's flying credentials or lack thereof.

Why NORAD was nowhere to be seen especially after what was happening?

Why Flight 77 took a 270-330 degree turn rather than heading straight for the Pentagon (where Rumsfeld was) but instead somehow managed to hit the side that was being renovated that happened to kill some of the the accountants investigating the $2.3 trillion in missing transactions?

How the terrorists can infiltrate the largest Intel and air defense in the world (at least three times in one day) despite all the warnings.

What the deal is with the coincidental terror drills and war-games?

Why did Rice deny that anyone had ever envisaged planes being used as weapons despite that not being the case.....

Probably many more anomalies too.

reply to post by mullet35


Mullet... Proving a LIHOP theory is much easier than a MIHOP. Attempting to "debunk" a LIHOP is quite a bit tougher.

I for one feel that Bush and Co. were asleep at the wheel. Our intell is FAR from perfect.

But I do think that from what I have read, proper attention was not paid to certain threats.

The post I was sending to Ultima was to another post.

Originally posted by cams
Show you Dad Norman Mineta's testomony at the 9/11 Commission Hearing where he says a young man came into the presidential emergency bunker and was informing Cheney that the plane was 50 miles, 30 miles, 10 miles out.
Then ask him why on earth did Cheney NOT have the Pentagon evacuated?

This may at least get your father thinking. IMO there is absolutely no excuse for this behaviour whatsoever as Cheney's negligent actions cost many more lives than need be.

This does not prove a government conspiracy but it does show that the VP of the US was completely and utterly incompetent and should be sacked and charged with criminal negligence.

Lostin....

You're lucky you have me here. Again, if your Dad knows 911 facts, he will chew up this so called conspiracy with Mineta's testimony.

First of all, look at Richard Clarke's account of talking to FAA administrator Jane Garvey. He says Mineta hasn't reached the White House at this point, so Mineta defenders say it happened around 9:10. This is what Garvey is supposed to have said:

Jane Garvey, the administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration, was in the chair. "The two aircraft that went in were American flight 11, a 767, and United 175, also a 767. Hijacked."

"Jane, where's Norm?" I asked. They were frantically looking for Norman Mineta, the Secretary of Transportation, and, like me, a rare holdover from the Clinton administration. At first, FAA could not find him. "Well, Jane, can you order aircraft down? We're going to have to clear the airspace around Washington and New York."

"We may have to do a lot more than that, Dick. I already put a hold on all takeoffs and landings in New York and Washington, but we have reports of eleven aircraft off course of out of communications, maybe hijacked."

Richard Clarke, Against all Enemies

The problem here is that Clarke has Garvey pointing to eleven "maybe hijacked" planes at 9:10. Did ANYONE else say that? Nope.

There is also the claim that the FAA were "frantically looking" for Mineta, they couldn't find him. That's especially interesting because Mineta says, in two separate accounts, that she was in his conference room for the second WTC strike at 9:03.

Mineta also says he heard of a phone call from her before he left his office, reporting that the Delta Airlines CEO had called to say he couldn't account for all of his aircraft. (Why would he be saying that prior to 9:15?)

So what we're being asked to believe is that Garvey was with Mineta after 9:03 (if only for a few seconds), then had time to return to the FAA (admittedly just down the street), get briefed on the situation, call Mineta's office to pass on a Delta warning, then get to the point where they're "frantically looking" for him... all in 7 minutes? Sounds a wee bit far fetched huh?

Please go here for a more detailed report on Norman.

You will see that this CT is really one of the weakest.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
Ultima.... using your logic..... Did you see video of the space shuttle Columbia disaster?

Yes i did see NASA animation and data of the Colubia disaster and even chatted with NASA engineers on the possible cause of the crash on their forum.

First off do you know what parts of a plane are numbered and what parts of a plane can survive a crash (since we are talking about planes here not shuttles) ?

But lets look at Flight 800.

Flight 800 blew up in mid air into 2 pieces.

It hit the water doing several hundred miles an hour (engines were on and running) shattering into millions of small pieces.

Now Navy divers found enough pieces to do a reconstruction and get the numbers needed to do a proper criminal investigation.

Photos of Flight 800 reconstruction.

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

www.whatreallyhappened.com...



[edit on 25-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

[edit on 25-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by CaptainObvious

CO

What is the external source for Richard Clarke's account please?

ETA

Could you provide the two sources for this please?

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
That's especially interesting because Mineta says, in two separate accounts, that she was in his conference room for the second WTC strike at 9:03.

I ask because this is not what he said when testifying to the 9/11 Commission.

[edit on 25-3-2008 by coughymachine]

This might help too

Google Video Link

reply to post by coughymachine


Coughy... it was taken from his book: "Against all Enemies"

I hope that helps. There is also I link I provided in my post that goes over it in detail.

reply to post by ULTIMA1


I asked you if you saw a VIDEO OF THE COLUMBIA DISASTER.

You can not say yes. That is not an honest answer. You saw a simulation. And you spoke with NASA officials.

Great! Why do you believe them? Isn't NASA funded by the government?

Originally posted by CaptainObviousYou can not say yes. That is not an honest answer. You saw a simulation. And you spoke with NASA officials.

YES I DID SEE THE VIDEO AND MORE.

1. I saw what everybody else saw on the news.

2. I saw the last few minutes of the video filmed by the crew inside the Columbia right before the crash.

3. I saw the animation made from the real time data from all the sensors.

4. I discussed the possibal reasons for the crash online with people from NASA.

NOW HOW ABOUT WE GET BACK TO AIRCRAFT CRASHES INSTEAD OF SHUTTLE CRASHES SINCE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AIRCRAFT. CAN YOU PLAESE STAY ON TOPIC.

I NOTICED YOU AVOIDED MY POST ABOUT FLIGHT 800.

[edit on 26-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by CaptainObvious

I already put a hold on all takeoffs and landings in New York and Washington, but we have reports of eleven aircraft off course of out of communications, maybe hijacked.

Richard Clarke, Against all Enemies

Did the quote from the source contain the grammatical error that I have highlighted in bold?

Perhaps it's another case of more sloppy work from authors, editors and publishers.

If NIST can't sum their numbers without making errors, then it's probably too far fetched for me to expect anyone else to produce something error-free.

reply to post by CaptainObvious

I haven't got time to deal with this now, unfortunately. I just want you to know that I'm going to.

I have to say, I'm a little surprised that you're treating Clarke's book as definitive when both Mineta - testifying before the 9/11 Commission - and Garvey - testifying before the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure - provide a different account.

But this is for tomorrow cos I'm too whacked.

Lost....

Of all the garbage theories out there... you have only a couple that say that Bush is a retard. This doen not prove that 911 was a LIHOP. or a black op...

Ask your dad why Bush waited so long for an investigation

Ask why it was underfunded.

Ask why Bush refused to be questioned without Cheney with him


These are pretty much the only questions I have not got answers too.

Then you have got a lot of studying to do.

Lost...From the evidence I have seen. My opinion is that there isn't any to support CT's for the Pentagon or Shanksville.

What evidence have you seen?

Killtown?

Banned at almost every Conspiracy Site.(including this one)

So what? Check his blogposts. A lot of the times he's banned for BS reasons, which indicates a cover-up. No exception here, either. They banned him for 'off site activity'. Completely bizarre!

Killtown?

The man who believes no planes hit the Twin Towers?

With the support of eyewitnesses who saw a smaller aircraft/no plane at all, and the support of indisputable evidence of TV fakery?

The man that posted on his website the personal information of the woman who took the photo of the crash of flight 93?

So the hell what? She runs a freaking business. Anyone who complains about her information being posted is simply dumb. The photo is a proven forgery.

Yeah...use Killtowns old recycled garbage. Dad is going to take you to school.

Of course, he presents no evidence against Killtown's work. Use it and you'll be taking Daddy to school. He's published a list of 250+ smoking guns, he has a detailed timeline, he has examined signs of fakery in the WTC crash videos, he has done great investigations into WTC 6, 7, and the Pentagon/Shanksville attacks. He has also done a great investigation into Warren Buffet's involvement in 9/11. His site is the place to go for pages upon pages of point-by-point, sourced, factual information.

Ultima.... using your logic..... Did you see video of the space shuttle Columbia disaster? Have you seen parts that were scattered across several states match the ID numbers? Have you seen any body parts? Huh? Have you?

I didn't think so.

www.nasa.gov...

============

Lost, go to Killtown's site, research the stuff listed on his smoking guns page. Go to Team8plus and check out their articles. If you keep the good stuff there in your memory, you'll have an excellent evidence pack ready.

reply to post by ULTIMA1



I didn't ignore your post about flight 800.. i didn't read it yet.
Talk about ignoring...

We SHOULD compare the evidence of the Columbia disaster to that of the Pentagon.

But... you wont. You wont even post what you believe happened on 911 in here.

ok...i read it. Wow...the reconstructed a plane crash. And hmm... did they identify all the passengers?

What is your point?


[edit on 26-3-2008 by CaptainObvious]

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
We SHOULD compare the evidence of the Columbia disaster to that of the Pentagon.

ok...i read it. Wow...the reconstructed a plane crash. And hmm... did they identify all the passengers?

Why do you want to compare a shuttle crash where we have most of the evidence like video and by way of real time sensors to a plane crash where we do not have a lot of the evidence? Where are the videos and photos of Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon?

So since people on here like to state there were tons of plane parts and debris found at the scenes why do we not have a reconstruction of any of the 9/11 planes?





[edit on 27-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Why do you want to compare a shuttle crash where we have most of the evidence like video and by way of real time sensors to a plane crash where we do not have a lot of the evidence?

It's a lot easier for some people to derail threads by introducing poor comparisons to support unrelated events.

Imagine that you believed the official story, ULTIMA1. You too would have a difficult time trying to keep any thread (that discussed 911 a conspiracy)on-topic.