Ignorance, exactly, and a refusal to question dying values established more than 200 years ago!

The people here in Britain have a completely different, and probably more dangerous attitude. Most just don't care about anything except their personal lives, and who wins Pop Idol. Because our system has been around for so long (the Uk's governent probably the oldest continuous system in the world), we take it absolutely for granted. Most don't really give a damn about the government eroding at our rights (which don't officially exist except for the Magna-Carta which was intended for the upper classes only anyway), preparing to dismantle the BBC, (probably one of the last non-commercial and non-state run networks in the world) and blatently lying to us. Trans-atantic institutions such as the Illuminati and it's slave organisation the Round Table Groups, and it's slave organisations the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission, and their slave organisation the Bilderburgers, are ensuring that this erosion of rights is happening here as well as in the US.

Did you notice who the chairman on the site was?


William Kristol


William Kristol is editor of the influential Washington-based political magazine, The Weekly Standard. Widely recognized as one of the nation's leading political analysts and commentators, Mr. Kristol regularly appears on Fox News Sunday and on the Fox News Channel.

Before starting The Weekly Standard in 1995, Mr. Kristol led the Project for the Republican Future, where he helped shape the strategy that produced the 1994 Republican congressional victory. Prior to that, Mr. Kristol served as chief of staff to Vice President Dan Quayle during the Bush administration and to Secretary of Education William Bennett under President Reagan. Before coming to Washington in 1985, Mr. Kristol taught politics at the University of Pennsylvania and Harvard's Kennedy School of Government.

Mr. Kristol recently co-authored The New York Times bestseller The War Over Iraq: America's Mission and Saddam's Tyranny.

You are perfectly correct. Lordlefty. Most of the people in the US and UK, Hell - most of the world - have the 'It won't happen to me' attitude. It was that very attitude that took millions of people into the gas chambers. They couldn't believe the horror stories, and refused to even consider the possibility that they were true. Even when they were herded into the death trains, they still held out hope that they were only going to work camps.
They only realised what was happening at the very end - and by then it was too late.

lol... don't have to tell ME... I live here. My only refuge from the ignorance, greed, scandals, etc. is in my basement on the pute. Not much of a refuge, eh? Why do I come to these baords? Because there are real people here that don't fall for the propaganda and lies of the media and can actually think for themselves. (per capita, there are probably more good people on these boards than in the entire world... per capita. So far, all my neighbors are under the influence of our government and I haven't even found a single neighbor that even acts intelligent... it's all about going to church so that when the earth explodes god will carry them away in some magical bubble.)

Oh yeah, forgot... I'm starting to believe a bit in the Time Traveller (John Tilton?). Not necessarily taht he IS a time traveller, but he was preaching good morals.

Can you say CWII? (Civil War II). I really do see it coming. It will start with few, but when the USGov starts trying to 'protect everyone from the rebels' in exchange for people's rights, more will switch sides. If this does go down, I'm instantly on the 'rebel bandwagon'. I want my freedoms back, and don't want to live in fear of my own government like some poor 3rd-world communist country.

People seem to be just tuning out the truth, they have to hear the same things we do on the news but they just refuse to believe or care maybe they feel helpless, I don't know, it scares me how believing in our gov. we are in the US, and when you point out the atrocities of the past such as the testing on the military and the testing on civilians even children without our knowledge they all say, "Yeah I recall hearing something about that but it won't happen again!" But they can't ever give you a reason why it won't happen again.

The Twin Towers and the innocent lives lost in them does not even compare to the amount of lives lost on the "war on terrorism" that the American Government is doing.

lordlefty is on the right track with all this manufacturing of consent on the part of the sleeping masses.

It is a heck of a lot more easier to accomplish today what may have been difficult in the past, with the effective control of media empires and feeding of lies to the people, nothing but a stage play by the ruling elite.

Greater surveillance on people's lives means greater control.

More doom and gloom...ah!!! run for the hills and don't forget the duct tape!!!

Sorry, I don't buy it. I'm an american. I love my truck, basketball, and hiphop. I participate in my community and I vote. I don't think things are headed for some big blow up. This happens every time the ruling generation changes over. The old try desparately to stop it and the young prevail. Tis evolution and growth, not the end of the world. Just like with the end to slavery, women's right to vote, and civil rights...it's just time.

You can have an american mentality and survive. Our mentality is what keeps us growing an evolving into a richer nation with a flourishing culture. We rise out of all of our battles stronger. I doubt that will change.

As for S&B. We've been ruled by these people since the declaration of independance was signed. Elites, like Mr. Bush and Kerry, become politicans and presidents. Also, another little known fact...Kerry and Bush are distant cousins--of the same royal blood line. AND SO...doesn't matter--it's never mattered. The only thing americans should fear is mass apathy...and with a nation on the brink of great cultural change I doubt that is going to happen any time soon.

I agree Picky, goose.

But as for values established a bit long ago, in the bill of rights, constitution, declaration of independence I suppose, there was always someone who was denied of rights and freedom, in my view they basically applied to white Protestant males.

As the US progressed, I think we generally have become less ignorant, less arrogant, but seems to me less active ... The US is becoming everyone's country not just white men's, although male dominance is seen frequently in the media, politcs and attitude.

As for foreign policy we can 'thank' our leaders and bad judgement of the citizens for letting our country perform overseas as nowadays...

Sing the song that the globalists like and they will reward you.

Originally posted by Saphronia
You can have an american mentality and survive. Our mentality is what keeps us growing an evolving into a richer nation with a flourishing culture. We rise out of all of our battles stronger. I doubt that will change.

As for S&B. We've been ruled by these people since the declaration of independance was signed. Elites, like Mr. Bush and Kerry, become politicans and presidents. Also, another little known fact...Kerry and Bush are distant cousins--of the same royal blood line. AND SO...doesn't matter--it's never mattered. The only thing americans should fear is mass apathy...and with a nation on the brink of great cultural change I doubt that is going to happen any time soon.

Well, I agree about S&B. S&B and the Freemansons have been running the country since day one. And they are not running them for themselves!!! They are runnng it for the Agenda--a one world govt.

We are facing massive apathy. If that were not true, this forum would not be needed. There is so much mind control going on in the arts, media, etertainment, government.
I think they have the country so snowed, and that most think things are going according to their plan. Don't forget, a lot of the time when we think things are changing for the better, it is really that things are playing into the hands of the Agenda.

BTW, what is this great cultural change we ar on the brink of???

The only issues are continuing reform of our financial system, and to repeal a cacophany of unjust laws and bureaucratic practices that pollute this country and the rest of the world both in fact and in mind.

All the profiteering and narrow concentration of wealth is interdependent with the cultural illusion that it adds to humanity rather than in the end the burnt out basement of even the very elite it portends to serve.

Are we the human race now worse off than slaves who kept 50 per cent of their wealth? Slaves got free medical care from their "masters," who had at least a vested interest in their slaves being fit to work.

By the numbers it appears to be the case, but 50 percent of something is better than 100 percent of nothing, is it not?

A disinterested and disconnected elite has persisted not only with an "every man for himself," philosophy, but continued to dump a scientifically proven harmful set of chemistries on what should be a free people.


The size of that 50 per cent kept may be larger for some, but it is diminishing towards that "worse off than slaves," fate. Consider a chinese worker making 10 cents an hour that produces your Walmart merchandise. The insult to the injury of that wage is a company store that puts workers debt from the beginning. After eight months then you may or may not make anything, but you have lived under worse threats and coercion than a slave. Are these people really "free?"

People in your government want to dispel hard brought freedoms, paid by the blood of American soldiers, and take away basic protections of the already too low minimum wage. Overtime pay is under attack by the Bush administration. I remember when Ronald Reagan was in office, and he was not the least bit enamored to call his White House an "administration." He did not dismantle basic protections of the FDR legacy. But also remember recently that Nancy Reagan repudiated Republicans who wanted to place Ronald Reagan's image on the dime, in place of Roosevelt. One may search Google for the details.

I have listened and read some of President Reagan's commentary prior to and including his White House. He championed our freedoms and remembered the founding fathers. If that ended up being superficial, at least the words were said, and deeds proceeded thereby.

I cannot remember anything from Dubya in praise of our founding legacy, and much more the reverse of that spirit is evident in the tangle of legalisms since the most likely fabricated 911 mess and all its problem-reaction-solution overtones. I am waiting to hear some historical backup of what this nation and its real adherence to Constitutional principles.

Just follow the money, and you will know where the heart of leadership lies. Henceforth politics is irrelevant by comparison to actual financial reform, eg. ceasing and desisting from sending one third of the wealth of this country to European bankers and one token American. They print it up on only one commodity, their ability to collect interest in the form of taxation.

A new world order run by a complete idiocy is neither new nor world based, nor even order, but a recipe for continuing chaos for illusory power and profit. The long run balance sheet is desolation. The only reason these people continue is through the codependency of their pawns who have some semblence of basic morality in the way they live their lives, but who also have a profound ignorance.

We are powerful, all of us are, we must free our minds and free ourselves.

[Edited on 28-2-2004 by SkipShipman]

BTW, what is this great cultural change we ar on the brink of???

I'm sure you noticed that we are moving toward a more secular, global inclusive society. I suppose the effects of its spread depends on where you live. But, issues such as the death penalty, civil rights, religious rights, and personal freedom are all big topics in the coming election. Also, soon we will see an even large debate about protectionism, illegal immigration, and the energy and water crisis. Things are changing, not only in America, but around the world. The next election will set the stage for things to come...this year, more folk are registering to vote. Usually, we'd get maybe 5 people, now it's 15-20 on one outting.

And, I disagree with you about America's apathy. People care, they just feel powerless. I dare you to stop someone on the street and ask them about issues of politics or the war in Iraq. More than half of our population are active voters. Ignorance of the system keeps people out of the polls, though. When you tell them all they have to do is put their name an address on a piece of paper and they're registered, folk can't believe it. Ignorance of the process is our biggest obsticle. But, be sure everyone knows the issues. They live the issues.

While we talk about apathy are we working to change things or just talking. I would suggest that everyone get out there a talk to people about voting. Work in your community. Its easy to list all the things wrong with america. The hard thing is to actually work toward fixing it.

We are now worse off than slaves

More doom and gloom...no. We aren't worse off than slaves. How do you see the world? Its reality that we work for a wage. We all have the power to change our lives. If you feel enslaved then it's your own doing. At some point we have to take personal responibility for our condition. Life is what YOU make it. If you see yourself as a slave--it is because YOU haven't reached your full potential. Slavery is dead...and if you allow yourself to be enslaved then that is your own doing.

[Edited on 28-2-2004 by Saphronia]

Saphronia, I love the land I live on, but when I look up and down the street and a neighbor thinks I'm 'suspicious' because of all the media-driven propoganda and fear of terrorism and calls the FBI, I'm gonna be REALLY ticked.

Think about this: You are a law abiding citizen. You work with kids as a community service. You live peacefully, and have excellent morals. You are a role model citizen. What right would the government have to come and tear apart your home searching for 'terrorist' items? Oh yeah, and they throw you in jail until their investigation is finished. While in jail, you lose your job. You cannot get a job, because you were imprisoned and the employer starts wondering if you really are hiding something or not. Things get bad when you have to tell people WHY you got fired. Things get bad for you when you simply get thrown in jail, whether or not in was justified.

Why would all this happen? Because of the Patriot act. This is how our freedoms are being misted away. How free is it to be able to get rid of a neighbor by simply pointing and yelling "TERRORIST!!!"? Seems like freedom, until it happens to you. Maybe it was because of the racist down the street who doesn't like your dark-skinned friends. Maybe it's some overly paranoid old lady who sleeps with the TV tuned to MSNBC or CNN, and thinks everyone is a terrorist. What's next, new racist nation? How far will it go before there is a revolt? I garantee you'd think differently if you get pulled over and interrogated just because you don't follow 'fashion norms'.

All good Totalitarian governments have their roots in fear. The government decides that there is something the population must fear, and this makes them easier to control, posing as the force that will protect them. In Stalin's Russia, it was a conspiracy of the tsars returning in league with Trotski. In Nazi Germany, it was communists and the jews. In the United States of America, it is and will be terrorists.

Terrorists ARE dangerous, and steps MUST be taken to remove them, but the american public seems all to complacent to allow the government to do whatever it wants to this end.

Originally posted by lordlefty
In the United States of America, it is and will be terrorists.

Terrorists ARE dangerous, and steps MUST be taken to remove them, but the american public seems all to complacent to allow the government to do whatever it wants to this end.

What if our govt is funding the terrorists? What if the terrorist attack was meant to keep us afraid?

Right now, I fear for two things in this country: Our freedom of speech is being threatened. I have no love for Howard Stern or JanetJackson. But, if their antics sets up a sense of moral outrage and speech is threatened, we move closer and closer to losing freedom of speech. These happen slowly and suddenly, you know.
I fear our voting rights are in danger. I heard a report last night. Remember the outrage in 2000 over those punch card ballots, and how there's just too many differnt voting methods out there. Well, it's on the way to being more unified.
And, BTW, the will be a piece of cake to put a chip in that voting equipment to help decide the winner. And I just don't know who "they" have decided will win yet!!!
Beware the government when it tries to help you!!!!!

Terrorsists are not funded by the govt. C'mon...so we set up the whole invasion of Afganistan by Russia in 1980 and the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq so that we can base US military forces in Saudi Arabia which then later on spurs on supposed USA govt funded and USA-hating Arabs who then years later bomb the WTC and then later blow it up with airplanes??? All so that George Bush can turn the US into a totalitarian state??? Crazy...

This is nothing more than what happened with Rome...the barbarians (terrorists) hate being influenced and told what to do by Rome (the US). So they chip away and harass Rome as much as they can. The militant Arabs do have a slight beef with the US (the US is no angel), but really the Al-Queda guys are just a lost soul minority that is looking to slay a dragon in order to give meaning to their lives...this isn't about God, it's about egos (as always).

America is not lazy...we are just overstressed and brainwashed from work and family and trying to cram 5 different lifetimes into one because TV says we need to be cool and interesting. I honestly think most Americans would try to "fix" the govt, but we fear more about the economy than electing an inspirational and creative thinking leader. We pick the middle of the road in every presidential election, so we get very similar leadership. There's no conspiracy...it's all about human nature and our "me first" attitude that has caused all these problems.

Here's the catch-22 with terrorism:

Terrorists are attacking our government, not us. Terrorists are against our government. Our government keeps making new laws and generally just pissing people off all around the world and the terrorists fight even harder. So, our government cracks down harder, etc. Vicious cycle that can only be stopped by the fall of the American government. We are paying the price for the greedy, incompetent, and overzealous that govern us.

Personally I think throwing everything out and reverting back to the original constitution would be the best step in the right direction. Start over. Our constitution doesn't even exist anymore because of all the laws they have piled on top of it. It's crap.