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Going in on property/etc. with like-minded folk...Good/Bad idea?

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posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 04:54 PM
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I've been looking at property for some time, and there's quite a few good parcels of land in the area I'm looking at for around $20,000. Many of them are sufficient for my plans, (hunting/gardening/building a home/maybe horses), but none of them are ideal for it.

Then I came upon a parcel of land which is more than ideal, in fact it's beyond perfect. It's in the absolute most perfect place in the country, (in my opinion), it has lots of land for grazing for horses, but lots of land also with trees including maples for syrup, and many places to hide a little home in. It also has multiple ponds and a river running through it which would be great for some of these new hydro-turbine power generator thingies I've been reading about. (And a water supply is ideal.) It has a plethora of wildlife such as dear, duck, pheasant, turkeys, etc. for hunting, and one of the best lakes for bass fishing is a short walk from the property. It is also near oodles of state land which would be good for hunting or for getting lost in during a SitX. It also has land that is good for growing crops.

Unfortunately, the seller is selling the land as almost 450 acres, at a price of $95,000. 450 acres would be nice, even though I don't need nearly that much, but that's way out of my price range.

So I was thinking maybe I could network with some like-minded individuals who are also looking for land and we could go in on it together. I really am not fond of the idea of doing this, but it's a great price and it's absolutely perfect land. If the seller split the land into four parcels and sold each at a quarter of that cost, I would still be getting a great deal. But I really don't know if I'm willing to go in on it with other people.

My only other option would be to take out a loan, and I'm not very fond of that idea for obvious reasons. I really don't wanna let this land slip away though. What a shame it's 450 acres and not a quarter of that instead...

Any thoughts on going in on land with other people? (Probably strangers.)

[edit on 20/3/08 by an3rkist]




posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 05:40 PM
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I'd look up 'intentional communities groups' on google or yahoo for your area.
Most of them are the back-to-the-earth type and not survival groups.

Have you talked to the landowner about leasing? Many of the landowners actually want to retain their land but can no longer afford to pay taxes on them. A small groups of 10-12 hunters could lease the land for a very low monthly fee per hunter and the landowner keeps his parcel intact and you get access to the land. My shooting club's land is owned by the president of a small town bank. He leases the land(48 acres) to us for the improvements we've made such as putting in electricity. We're hoping to eventually purchase the parcel outright but we're a small club right of only 8 hardcore members now. Many landholders will make lease to purchase agreements if they see you're a good tennant and not a greedy developer.



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 09:10 PM
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95,000 for 450 acres. Wow that is agreat price. I have been looking at parcels of about 100 acres and the cheapest I've found is a little less than $1000 per acre with the average being closer to $2,000 per acre. On a large parcel I don't think it woud a bad thing to split the costs as long as it was someone you could get a long with. I also think that there would have to be some contractual arrangments made to try and eliminate any fueds before they occur. I could be interested my budget is up to 150,000 but the timing is not right yet for me. Still trying to finish off a few things in the interest of no debt and I would expect the parcel to have no encumbrances and therefore would need to be bought with cash.



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by crgintx
 


I'm not looking to lease land. Based on my theories if I cannot buy land outright within the next two or three years it will be pointless to spend any money on any land. If I wasn't so paranoid I would probably go with your suggestion, but alas, I am cursed with with delusions of disaster.



Originally posted by photobug
95,000 for 450 acres. Wow that is agreat price. I have been looking at parcels of about 100 acres and the cheapest I've found is a little less than $1000 per acre with the average being closer to $2,000 per acre. On a large parcel I don't think it woud a bad thing to split the costs as long as it was someone you could get a long with. I also think that there would have to be some contractual arrangments made to try and eliminate any fueds before they occur. I could be interested my budget is up to 150,000 but the timing is not right yet for me. Still trying to finish off a few things in the interest of no debt and I would expect the parcel to have no encumbrances and therefore would need to be bought with cash.


Yes, I agree with everything you've said, (especially about paying cash for the land, which is why I'm considering going in on this with some other people.) I've been searching for land for quite some time now and have only recently found a website which is strictly the owners themselves advertising the land, rather than a real estate agent. (Aside from CraigsList-like sites.) It is also a site which is strictly for acreage as opposed to most sites which seem to focus on property with pre-built homes. I question the validity of this property based on the price, but I've seen stranger things. I have not asked the seller about any past due taxes, etc. on the property because I think it is highly unlikely I will be able to get the property. Even if I find some people interested in helping it would take too long I think.

I also agree that some kind of contractual agreements would have to be made to avoid feudal situations, which is one of the main reasons I dislike this idea. Contracts are the devil, in my opinion. I hate them with a passion. However, I can't see how you could get around them if you purchased a single parcel of land between multiple individuals. Boundaries would have to be set as far as which part is whose, etc., assuming it wasn't a commune-like set-up. Also, there would have to be some kind of way to ensure the other individuals paid their portion of the property taxes. (The property taxes on this property, according to the seller, are around $1300 a year.)

I would also worry about certain individuals who would not be the type I'm interested in getting involved with. I may be an anarchist, but I don't want any fanatics building a compound where they train their cult-followers to bomb government buildings or anything. I just want some normal people who want to be self-sufficient like me and opposed to a Martial Law Police state, (though not militant people who want to make war with the government, even in the event of Martial Law). I know there's other like-minded people, but filtering out the extremists might be difficult, and would take too long for this particular property, methinks.

I have friends who would go in on it with me, if they had the money. I'm looking to contribute no more than $20,000 and even that's spreading my financial assets so thin as to put me in the crapper if anything else came up. Actually, I don't even have that much at the moment, but I should within a fairly short amount of time if all goes well. I may only have $10,000 if things don't go well. But even if I got ten people to go in on it, that's 45 acres per person, at less than $10,000. And for such perfect land??? I fear a once-in-a-lifetime-opportunity is passing me up. Confounded dollars!

I think I'm starting to dislike the idea of sharing land more and more though. Unless it were with my close, trusted friends, it just doesn't seem feasibly intelligent.

[edit on 20/3/08 by an3rkist]



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 09:55 PM
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You aren't likely to beat $200/acre, especially if some of it is farm land. Prime farm land in my area goes for 10x that.

If you want to split it with somebody, make sure you have an extremelly detailed legal agreement. or you might run into trouble. Among other things, you want to work out:
- Who owns which specific portions, if you divvy it up
- How would members of the group sell their portion of they wanted to
- When can the land be used by which member, and for what activity
- How costs/profits would be divided regarding any development (crops, plots and feed for attracting wildlife like deer, any buildings you want to construct, paths, etc.)

I can probably think of hundreds more things you want to include in your legal agreement. The one little thing you leave out will always be the thing that screws you over.

You will also want to check with the zoning for things as simple as... can you build more than one house on the property?


I've though about something similar... like a modern commune. Even if it was just a few close friends or families that lived together, say 4 or 5 families living together in a very large house or several smaller houses, and splitting the cost. Everyone would keep regular jobs, and just do farming/survival stuff in the evening when they get home, and on weekends (Or perhaps one family tends to the homestead as a full-time task.) Think if you have $200,000+ of annual income for the group (5 people earning $40,000 per year), plus you are growing the majority of your own food, even potentially living off the grid. If you're doing subsistence farming, not growing a crop to sell to someone else, you could probably get away with 50 acres or less for 5 families and it would last you the year, fresh and canning for winter as well.

If nothing else, the land will probably appreciate in value quite considerably and make a good investment for everyone involved. If I can't find anyone interested by the time I'm done college, I'm going to buy my own small farm anyway. It will be a steep learning curve being the "city-slicker" urbanite that I am, but it will be worth it. I've already been growing my own vegetables and things, I've even considered raising chickens (the by-laws in my city actually allow you to keep up to 12 bantam chickens in your backyard), but my parents seem to disapprove of that one.


Worst-case scenario, you could buy the land on a mortgage and then rent it out to someone. You own the land, the lease payments pay off your mortgage and interest, all is well.

[edit on 3/20/2008 by Yarcofin]



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by an3rkist
 


The only place I can think of that you can buy land for less than $1K/acre aren't anywhere near major resources such as water, paved roads or electricity.

You can pretty much forget about the coasts or any freeflowing surface water streams as potential places to buy. The owners will want big money. Dusty and dry south Texas farmland goes for $1500/acre if you're buying 40 acres or more If you're trying to buy small, it'll only go up from there. Texas has some of the cheapest small land(



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 11:10 PM
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Could you post a link to that website. I havn't found any that are for sale by owner. I usually look at unitedcountry or farmsandland.

I would also think the more individuals that get involved the more of a mess it would be. 90,000 really isnt that much money to split between two people that would be over 200 acres per person. 450 acres is approx 3/4 of a square mile thats a lot of land. I'm still curious as to where you are finding something so cheap. Is it desert, just been timbered, probably no mineral rights come with it.



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by Yarcofin
 


Lots of good info. But you only served to support my fears of what could happen if I went in on it with somebody else. Contracts and legal mumbo jumbo turn me off quite quickly. No mortgages for me. If the economy goes in the crapper and nobody rents from me then my land goes in the crapper, too. (Mention the word legal and you turn me off quite quickly...)

reply to post by crgintx
 


As I said, I have some doubts about the validity of the sale, but the price he is asking for is $95,000 for about 450 acres. And he claims it is both wooded and "grazing land", plus some "wetland", and has several ponds and one small river running through it.

But the property itself is not the thesis of my thread, the idea of teaming up with other people to purchase land is the main idea.



reply to post by photobug
 


It may not seem like a lot of money to you, but half of ninety thousand is still a lot of money to me. Ten thousand is a lot to me, but I'm willing to stretch myself for twenty thousand if the property is decent enough.

No, it isn't desert. The seller says it is partially wooded, partially made up of good grazing land, partially made up of wetlands, with several ponds and a small river. It is also in the New England area, so desert area wouldn't really describe much of the land up here.

Anyway, I agree with you that the more people the more mess, which is why my original intentions were to go it solo. But if this land is real, and this is the real price, would it be worth the potential mess?

Oh, and it couldn't be more simple than this: acreage.com. Wow I felt stupid when I found it. A very simple and not very aesthetically pleasing website, but that's where I found this property. No guarantees that you'll find similar deals or that the deal I found is legit though...

EDIT: I don't know why I always assume the word "lots" has an apostrophe in it...


[edit on 20/3/08 by an3rkist]



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 12:34 AM
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Well thats really a big DUH! I should have guessed that. I am familiar with that part of the country. I have seen many listings in upstate New York for exactly what you are talking about. I've seen a lot of really good looking parcels up there and the prices are right but theres a few things that bug me about that area

That part of the country is a huge population center. The rural areas I have seen may be rural but in the grand scheme of things they are really not that far from masses of people. However the area I speak of is very close to a lot of state land and is also very close to canada which could be an excellant escape route. I am kind of taking the approach that once I have my land I will want to whether any calamity on my property rather than have to make a run for it as I would probably have to do now.

Also that part of the country is very liberal and not very gun friendly as other part of the country are.

as far as staying in the united States I think the best bet would be Montana where there are still large parcels cheap but I have been focusing on Tenn and kentucky Mainly Tenn becasue of tax laws and its alot closer to my current location. I'm hoping to maintain my current home while I prepare my property so proximity to my home now plays a part in that. This is all just thoughts anyway like you I dont have 90,000 laying around but can pretty easliy come up with 10 or 20 right now but i'm trying to stay focused on debt free. I would make an exception to debt free in the form of owner financing becasue in a SHTF scenerio it would offer more protection than having a bank call in a mrtgage and confiscating the property



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 12:40 AM
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If you want the land, and really can't pass it up, which personally I wouldn't. It is best to by as much as you can afford, along the state land property. That way your border is along the state lands border, and if you want to expand the branch can reach out to further.



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 12:52 AM
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reply to post by photobug
 


The land I am looking at is near the St Lawrence River, which is the border between NY and Canada.
Its source is Lake Ontario, which would provide another good escape route. Additionally, it's near the 1000 Island Area, which would be a great place to hide.

I agree the gun laws are unfortunate, but getting a license to carry is only hard if you want handguns, and even then only if you want something other than residence use. If I'm keeping the weapons on my land, it should be no problem.

As for the masses of people, the land is near some fair-sized towns, but it is in a very rural area itself. Personally I don't want to be completely separated from civilized society.



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 06:02 AM
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reply to post by an3rkist
 



(The property taxes on this property, according to the seller, are around $1300 a year.)


This is extremely cheap and is likely because there are no improvements on the land. If you are budgeting, be aware that taxes will increase as you add improvements. You can verify the taxes at the local assessors office; they are public record. Make sure there are no tax liens on the land, else you'll be responsible for them.

Also has the lot had a perc test? You'll want to make sure it has, or that's another expense you'll be looking at.

I wouldn't totally discount the idea of a loan. If the economy collapses, most likely the banks will go after the downtown buildings and not unimproved acreage.

Good luck.


apc

posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by Yarcofin
- Who owns which specific portions, if you divvy it up


DO THIS.

Do NOT enter into a partnership unless you own 51%. Partnerships are quite possibly the dumbest business decisions some people ever make. Especially if you are friends or have a prior business relationship.

Find some buyers to divide the land with you and work out the details before signing a thing. That way if the deal goes bad for whatever reason you're not stuck working out an exit plan. They sell their chunk or you sell yours. If you're in a partnership even if an out is detailed in the contract, emotions can quickly complicate things and if they were friends before they wouldn't be anymore.

I've joined the Free State Project so I'll be in New Hampshire within a couple years. I'll be shopping for some land once I'm there and while I'm not terribly excited about crossing Vermont to get to it, if the site is right I'd be down like a clown.... charlie brown.



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 09:39 AM
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the free state project is pretty cool. I'll have to do more research on this. Whats the deal with vermont I thought that was a pretty survivalist freindly state?



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by an3rkist
 



That area is beautiful i've seen a lot of parcels for good prices up there. I'll have to do more research as far as the laws go up that way. I drove through that area back in october on my way up to canada, maybe I'll rethink my position.

I also agree that a partnership is a bad idea but a contract that would split the land and give full ownership of say half to each of two persons would work. Of course there would have to be a buyout clause and two owners could work cooperativley towards mutually benficial survival itmes such as a jointly owned power system but more importantly they could work cooperatively and things such as farming hunting, and protection. Both parties could work the land cooperatively as a whole even though as individuals they would only own half of the parcel. It would be more like a good neighbor thing with the begginiing cooperation being to pool resources to acquire the land.

Suppose two individuals could come up with 25% down it may be possible that the owner would hold the note for a short period of time say 36 months so basically after the down two people would have 36 months to pay off the reamining 75,000 or so. thats approx 12,000 per year per person. A very doable amount. In my case If I wa do do something like that I own a business that could be be ver esily replicated in another part of the country and would be able to assist the other person in setting up a business that could easily generate that amount of cash. So keep it in perspective It's a very doable project for anyone that can muster up 10 - 20 grand and be able to put 1000 - 2000 per month into the deal for three years.



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 10:13 AM
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I would love to buy land/house but my college debt prevents even the thought of actually doing so. It annoys me however that you are not actually buying anything: by paying cash you simply prevent one level of government from taking away your land, the banks. However you still RENT it from the governments by having to pay property tax, which is another large scam. If I had no debts, paid cash for land, and had enough reserves to pay the false property tax, I would definitely buy land even though it is only a government lease. I would do it because in the event of total governmental breakdown, it would be nice to have that chunk of property to bug out to and defend as your own.

And on that acreage.com website I already found one that would be awesome: 160 acres for about $79,000 in pristine wilderness (upper peninsula in Michigan.) I sure wish I was one of the lucky ones with lots of money, I would be purchasing land and moving into the wild in a heartbeat.



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 10:26 AM
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I believe to do what your planning would also require that you have thre property surveyed off into tracts, I may be wrong though. That could get rather expensive depending on how many tracts you're talking about.



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 10:35 AM
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yeah your are right about leasing it from the government. I believe there are some ways around this but I'm not that up on them. I believe you can patent your land I also believe there are some parts of the country which allow you to have (dang I cant think of the term) , texas is one of them.

Here it is

Allodial title is a concept in some systems of property law. It describes a situation where real property (land, buildings and fixtures) is owned free and clear of any encumbrances, including liens, mortgages and tax obligations. Allodial title is inalienable, in that it cannot be taken by any operation of law for any reason whatsoever.


apc

posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by photobug
Whats the deal with vermont I thought that was a pretty survivalist freindly state?

It is. Vermont tends to be more socialist so it's hard to judge what position they would take in a "national crisis" situation. But really I would just want to avoid crossing state lines, especially twice, in a bug-out as I plan on residing in NH.



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 10:48 AM
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I've met these folks...

60 of them on over 1000 acres.

Good People

www.eastwind.org...


I own 10 acres... I paid 790 each... wooded... your deal is out there; you just have to be patient and persistent.

I am,

Sri Oracle



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