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what you should know about the 14th Dalai Lama

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posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by crazyboy0
You'r right! It seems not all americans are stupid!

That's insulting.



Originally posted by crazyboy0
In the modern times,the problem of ideology has been solved in China but why still exists in a democratic country?


Riiiiiiight. Those who don't believe in the forced ideology of the communists end up as political prisoners in a dung-hole prison somewhere and for the rest of their life they are making shoes for the Chinese government to sell overseas.

Ideology 'problem' solved.


** On the Dali Lama ... the OP is without credibility and without sources.




posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 


"It is high time especially during these Olympics that the people of China get the message loud and clear "B/S"

China is desperate to be accepted in the world community and thing that a flashy Olympic Games will paper over the cracks of human rights abuse."

I'm interested to know what their human rights abuses are and if you have first-hand experience of them?

What about the human rights abuses done in the name of western nations throughout history and continually? I haven't committed any myself and I doubt you have and Crazy boy probably hasn't either but most of our nations have been accused of it at some time or another.

"Bloody right it's time for dialogue. If China wants to be accepted in the western world then let them come and talk to us about their invasion of Tibet and repression of the Tibetan people."

So America hasn't invaded another country? Hmmm... The west is so perfect isn’t it. We don’t commit any atrocities or commit crimes against humanity – no, we are the saintly races that should control the rest of humanity for the greater good for we know better.

"Anywhere I suggest except Chinese goods. The Chinese Government may be able to control public opinion there but it's time they learned that they cannot dictate public opinion outside their borders."

It's only through media such as this (ATS) that you get to hear the other side of the story. No nation’s media want to tell the whole truth and most don’t even want to tell part of it or do they?

"Let's boycott Chinese trade Goods until they give freedom to the Tibetan people... "

Lets boycott all 'British' goods until the English free the Irish people or American goods until they free the Iraqis, Afghans. Natives etc... Do you see my point?



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 06:08 PM
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This is all you have to do when you type the next post. Don't worry about the paste buttons. Just cut'n'paste the text I have provided:




Paste this in your posts and then at the front, replace *** with IMG. At the rear replace **** with /IMG.

[***]http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh212/727Kiwi/150-tibetflagthumb.jpg[***]



In New Zealand I have begun to campaign against our proposed Free trade agreement with China.

China needs to reform itself and talk frankly about freedom for Tibetans.

Tibet needs self rule even if that includes in a loose federal association with China. If the Chinese government reads this and I am sure they do, stop denying reality because nobody in the west is convinced.

You risk more from this than you understand because westerners are sick of losing their jobs to China where wages are lower and human rights are not respected.

We in the West reserve the right to demand that our Governments will only trade with countries that respect human rights.

Overnight we can destroy China's trade surplus with a boycott of Chinese goods. You decide China.






[edit on 19-3-2008 by sy.gunson]



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 06:09 PM
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I have never seen so much fabricated bull-honkey coming from a person i am awarding a degree of respect before.

I could draw comparision between the Dalai Lama and Guy Fawkes, considering we actually celebrate the death of Guy Fawkes every year in order to commemorate one man's actions in the face of an authoritarian state.

And of course, he got an awful lot of bad publicity, which is quite understandable considering he tried to blow up our houses of parliment.

As a westerner who has practised buddhism among Buddhists and understands how it works (to some degree), i acknowledge that there are psychological practices that some could perceive as aggressively hypnotic - but then tbh that should only bother you if you think you have something to hide.

There was also a few mental notes on how the particular stance of Buddhism i was studying could be relatively compared to the placebo effect - the taxman getting you down?

F@'# him!

Armed government forces appearing on your door?

F@'# them!

While obviously this is not the reactive method one should undertake, it is essentially a rather crude form of what you'd be doing (ignoring the antagonist).

OP: From me personally, you have more chance of getting me to believe that Hitler didn't cause the Reichstag Fire than having me believe that the Dalai Lama is not acting in the best interests of his people.

Now, i can tell Buddhism probably isn't represented quite the same way in China as it is in the rest of the world, so i won't get all cynical and start hurling insults like i normally do, but i'll ask you to remember that, despite what you may or may not believe about the Dalai Lama, your media isn't exactly operating in the interests of protecting the values of the Tibetan People either.

Judge a man by his actions in the present, for those actions are harder to fabricate.



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 06:15 PM
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"Let's boycott Chinese trade Goods until they give freedom to the Tibetan people... "

Lets boycott all 'British' goods until the English free the Irish people or American goods until they free the Iraqis, Afghans. Natives etc... Do you see my point?



Actually pressure was brought on Britain by Clinton.

Show me where I have defended oppression of people in Iraq or Africa etc ?

You must have been living on Mars much of your life if you're not aware of prison gulags in China, prison factories. harvesting of organs from prisoners shot for minor crimes.

Where were you when the Chinese Government crushed Tiananmen Square protests with guns and tanks.

Did you switch your TV off that week ?



[edit on 19-3-2008 by sy.gunson]



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 


yes but what freedom do they have sy.gunson??

none as far as i can see?

i have nothing against the chinese people , i am fascinated by them, i read daughter of the river, they have had and still do have a very hard life, i think their government grinds them into the ground, i am probably out of order for saying these things but i dont want to go into the nitty gritty or get personal .

people have good hearts the world over, its just that we can end up like sheep, and i dont mean the chinese i mean each and every one of us!



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by vox2442

Originally posted by crazyboy0
3.He supports Aum Shinrikyo,one of a notorious terrorism religion in Japan.In 1995,members of AUM Shinrikyo released sarin gas on several lines of the Tokyo Subway.....However, as a "peace lover",Dalai has close ties to them.Even after 1995,Dalai still states categorically that what Aum Shinrikyo promoted accords with Buddhism,and the founder of Aum Shinrikyo is his best friend.


I`m not sure how close their ties were, but there is quite a lot of evidence to support this.

Here`s one English source (well footnoted), with a photo of the two holding hands.

www.trimondi.de...

Aum had quite a bit of international support both before and after the sarin attack, so it`s not all that far-fetched.


True- but there are no enlightened world leaders- not one. So in these dark days people need to believe in the Dali Lama. They need to believe there is one good guy out there even though there isn't. As Americans, we are the hopeless hopefuls and this kind of thread is only going to cause ire's to burst. Face it. China is red, communist, tyrannical, dictatorial, fascist and is truly the largest collection of human evil on the planet. They have amusement parks where the public can enjoy animal torture for crying out loud- and no I am not going to post the video- just Google China animal cruelty if you want to see that crap.

The fact is this whole good versus evil thingy is just boring- and the Dali Lama against the cruel China thingy is merely another example of how far the same old bull$# can spread in the year 2007.

The fact is nobody- and I mean nobody gets the press the Dali Lama gets without killing a few people. But hey thats JMO.

[edit on 19-3-2008 by dk3000]



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by sy.gunson
If the Chinese government reads this and I am sure they do, stop denying reality ....





Wow.. talk about denying reality. Do you honestly think that the Chinese Government is monitoring this website?

If anything, that little line in your post illustrates to me the reason why so many Chinese seems to want to post their side of the story - you have become so convinced the you are 100% in the right, that you`re willing to believe that ANY commentary to the contrary must be the work of a paid government agent doing press control - because You`re right, right?

Honestly, this makes no sense to me. In what other debate would this line of thinking be called rational?



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 06:38 PM
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The fact is nobody- and I mean nobody gets the press the Dali Lama gets without killing a few people. But hey thats JMO.



and your source is what ... No links. No credibility. Just another flea without credibility.




posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 06:40 PM
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You obviously did not watch Hu Jin Bao's press conference on CNN yesterday in which he said he constantly read the internet to get foreign views on Tibet.

If the Chinese premier said it in a news conference, then that is good enough for me.

In fact a debate here on ATS was reported just a few days ago by CNN and It is clear that CNN actually read ATS too.



[edit on 19-3-2008 by sy.gunson]

[edit on 19-3-2008 by sy.gunson]



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by sy.gunson
Actually pressure was brought on Britain by Clinton.

Show me where I have defended oppression of people in Iraq or Africa etc ?


I didn't state that outside influences had not swayed the British government or that you condoned oppression of others.



You must have been living on Mars much of your life if you're not aware of prison gulags in China, prison factories. harvesting of organs from prisoners shot for minor crimes.


I never got to see any of that on TV and I actually don't watch it any more to be honest...

I'm not even going to argue this point with you. My point was none of us can be sure that any of this actually happened. Do you have hard evidence that it did?



Where were you when the Chinese Government crushed Tiananmen Square protests with guns and tanks.

Did you switch your TV off that week ?


I doubt I had it on in the first place at that age, let alone the news. Anyway, why would you want to drag up that much history, even if it was fact?

Where were you? Ringside?



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by meremortal
 



I will add it mine as well, if I can figure out how to do it, sometimes i ride the short bus when it comes to that sort of stuff!

I do find it very interesting that pretty much the entire rest of the world suppors Tibet and the Dalai Llama yet this seems incomprehensible to the chinese people discussing the matter.

Being both a secular and a Religious leader there are bound to be some conflicts of behavior or expected behavior.
I have seen only behavior that points to wanting the best interest of the Tibetan people and those who follow him on the path of buddhism.



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by crazyboy0

1.He is a slaveholder and tyrant of Tibet before 1949,when
most people in Tibet had governed by the cruel and dark serfdom rule.

2.He is actually a terrorist,although he has been advertising himself as a peace lover,even the second Gandhi .From 1959,he has launched terrorist attacks on Chinese government authorities more than 1000 times,and thousands of innocent people were killed.

3.He supports Aum Shinrikyo,one of a notorious terrorism religion in Japan.In 1995,members of AUM Shinrikyo released sarin gas on several lines of the Tokyo Subway.....However, as a "peace lover",Dalai has close ties to them.Even after 1995,Dalai still states categorically that what Aum Shinrikyo promoted accords with Buddhism,and the founder of Aum Shinrikyo is his best friend.

4.He is never just a Buddhist,he is actually a politician. What he concerns is never the interests of people in Tibet,but his own power enslaving them.He knows that his ambition wiil be never realized if Tibet is still a part of China.So he has to collude some anti_China forces and take the road of split hie motherland.

Poor man!


Utter tripe and defamation. Had you posted this in a newspaper, you would get done for libel.

How about you get over your partisan notions. This is not the place to post such hate ridden posts.

This is ATS, we deny ignorance ergo we deny your views.



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 06:59 PM
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reply to post by gluetrap
 


yeh me too gluetrap

why are the chinese so adamant with their quest in tibet?

i just watched the you tube link on another post and saw 3 tibetans picked off by a sniper while trudging through snow on a trek to meet the dalai lama

this footage was picked up by western climbers who were gutted by what they video'd..

once again what is of such importance for the chinese government in that region?

sorry cant paste the link , having trouble with the tibetan flag..

i257.photobucket.com...



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by silencee
 


hmm have always belived the Lama to be just, but this is disturbing
I can't say i have been convinced by these articles regarding Lamas "darker side" I mean if they are so holly and abide by the buhdist way, they should not care to be treated like kings but he seems to be like that....On the other hand it could be propaganda.. in these times we live in who can we realy trust ....but its a fact that he has met with bush and that I cannot understand since he is the biggest puppet war monger since hitler IMO. That just dosen't fit the the picture of a spiritual leader in search of peace and the nazi expeditions earlier danm.....but then yet again it could be how is the saying .....ah yes "If you can't beat them, join them and then beat them." I thank you for bringing this up becourse you can't denie the claims VS who he asociates with this is truely frightening. When I started reading I also thought that OP- CB was crazy now im not so shure...


To all others i urge you to read the links posted by silencee. This is an open disqussion and to just look at it from your view is not worthy of this forum.....maybe someone with bigger brain cells than myself would be able to find out more by going throug these articels.. then think about what the OP is Claiming I admit that some seems far out but still the Lama the Nazi then bush and the japanese sarin terrorist group havin fun together
there is something fishy IMO. maybe LAMA is behind the NWO

But seriously read it still can't forget it.. a meeting with bush behind closed doors. Do he try to convert him? or just a Fun talk with his exact oposite ?
and why the need for glory when a monk is supposede to be humble ?
And whats the diffrence people who have met him say's he is a nice guy and spiritual, haven't people that have talked to bush in puplic said the same ?....but they where wrong IMO.

just as an example I could write a book about peace and love and be ohh so loved....but give me the chance to push the red button and you would be suprised.....
last I can understand that china invaded Tibet first and they would like payback..but then to join forces with the biggest War agrivator the US IMO
isen't a choice of a wise and holy man ....sneaky perhaps but what do I know for Iam just a being on this planet gainig infomation from what others have written ..or maybe its just survival I just don't like the people he hang around now that i think about it .....



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 07:05 PM
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reply to post by a-being-?
 


I wonder if you show your friends and family the same amount of faith when they go through hard times.



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


Sorry, but perhaps I was not clear. I was not meaning to suggest that the current Lama had any part in the repression or Theocracy that was Tibet (before China). I brought the link form page two (thanks to TheWalkingFox) in answer specifically to this part of your post:


Do we really know if the people of Tibet were miserable, suffering slaves or loyal, willing, happy servants?

...




I happen to fully agree that the current spiritual leader of the people of Tibet, probably had very little to do with Theocratic Tibet.



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 07:19 PM
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Okay, so i made an account just to get my two cents into this discussion.
One thing that really strikes me at first is that almost every comment is written in a hateful tone -,- at least give people the benefit of having their own opinions.. We do live in the free part of the world; let’s use that freedom not to slander just for the sake of slandering.

Secondly, I think everyone can agree to the fact that Crazyboy0 could not possibly be entirely unbiased. Be that as it may, let's at least listen to what he has to say instead of just slamming everything into the ground at the first opportunity


While Tibet has always enjoyed some form of self-rule government, they have been under the influence of china for more than a millennium. The world has changed since then, and if every region demanding independence in the world could fulfil their wish we'd have total anarchy on our hands.

Modern Tibetans have no more right in their demand for independence than any other region in the world with similar background... i.e.; the Basques, Quebec, the Kurds, Scotland, Sicily, Greenland, the Faeroe islands ... hell what about the new Californian republic ? or as a previous poster mentioned.. Alaska & Hawaii ..

There is a reason we live in a... relatively.. Stabile period, because this # doesn't "just" happen... we can't just demand independence of our own piece of land and expect the world to recognize our authority.

Now whether the 14th Dalai Lama has committed horrendous acts in the pasts, or if he supports terrorists/freedom-fighters today... doesn't really mean anything to me. We can all agree that China doesn't have clean hands either ... or the US for that matter... so please, everybody breathe, #, eat and fight.. very few people can claim to be entirely innocent, not even the dalai lama.

On this matter i support the crazy Chinese boy

living in a country that still has colonies (Denmark -> Faeroe Islands & Greenland) it would be unethical of me to say otherwise.
from one Dane at least to the Chinese, keep up the good job & stay strong.. let's keep this world in order shall we =?



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by Suspended

Where were you? Ringside?


Actually the whole world was ringside. The camera's were rolling on that one. Not everything in the world is a lie. As tolerant as I try to be if what happened in that Square did not move you to anger, you are either uninformed to the point of non-relevance or you are making it up as you go along.

Even with the obvious bias in the Media, most news reports are accurate as to the events that occurred. Far more accurate than things are on the Internet. The major media sources have their reputations and financial futures on the line. People posting on the Internet can lie with impunity at will. Blogs will never replace good news reporting. You just need to learn to ignore the spin and pick out the facts. One thing is for sure here; if you get your news from Blogs and biased Internet Sites, you will be badly misinformed.

China has a horrible track record on human rights. The things we discuss here every day about Western Governments failings pales in comparison to the horrors committed by the Chinese by their Rulers.

I'm not ready to consider the boycott route yet as it seems to me keeping the interaction going will do more good. When the Chinese People decide they have had enough, no force on earth will be able to stop them from freeing themselves. I'm sure their leaders tremble at the thought of that day coming.



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 07:30 PM
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reply to post by InSpiteOf
 


I understand what you are saying. What I'm finding on the Internet is from such biased sources its hard to tell what the true history is. This is something I wish I had spent more time studying long ago. Life could well have been very tough under that system. Who knows what is really in the heart of the current Dalai Lama. Charisma as profound as his can be used for either good or bad.



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