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what you should know about the 14th Dalai Lama

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posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 02:45 PM
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your signature speaks volumes of your intent OP. I'd ask to see your sources, but I'm sure you don't have any. I'd guess you're a Chinese national.




posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 03:07 PM
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I've seen alot of outrageous assertions at ATS over the years, but the OP has to be the most ridiculous one EVER, or at least a top 5 of all-time at ATS. Pure propaganda of the worst kind. The Chinese government is truly grasping at straws on this one.



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 04:10 PM
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I truly don't know what to think about this one.


I believe this post may be a part of the attempt to put on a false face to the world because of the Olympics. It could also be a post by a loyal Communist speaking his mind.

The Dalai Lama was a mere child when Chairman Mao's People's Liberation Army invaded Tibet in 1950. His current views may not even reflect the realities prior to that point in history. No credible person could hold him responsible for anything done by others that preceded him. That would be intellectual dishonesty of the highest order. You need to provide proof that THIS Dalai Lama has bad intentions for the people of Tibet.

Do we really know if the people of Tibet were miserable, suffering slaves or loyal, willing, happy servants? Does the OP really know? I would doubt that fully.

Chairman Mao was responsible for as many as 100 million deaths during his brutal period of control over China. About 1 million were directly related to the occupation of Tibet by China. I can't imagine what life must have been like then in Tibet or China and I doubt China's young people are aware of the history or even understand what their lives could have been like in a free society.

We here, who are responding to this are left with a dilemma. We don't know how much freedom of information you have or how much of the history you know is fabricated by your Government as a means of controlling you. I'd be interested in knowing if you have ever lived in a Western Democracy or if you have attended a school other than a State run school in China? That would greatly help us to understand your point of view. If not, you could not possibly understand our western views about living under a Communist Dictatorship, nor could you understand what it is to have our freedoms. Conversely we could not really understand what it is like to be a servant of state and not a free person with individual freedoms.

***Edited to say that the Mod was right to leave this one alone. This kind of dialog is important. Far more important than what Bigfoot is doing today I think.***





[edit on 3/19/2008 by Blaine91555]



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


This link was brought up on the second page of this discussion. I think its an important read and that is why I am bringing it to your attention, and those that would glance over the other pages of this thread.


www.michaelparenti.org...

Edit to add: I thought your post was well rounded, accurate, and very fair. Starred

[edit on 19-3-2008 by InSpiteOf]

[edit on 19-3-2008 by InSpiteOf]



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 04:29 PM
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C'mon guys (Crazy Boy et al,) come back and lets thrash this out. We were getting some good dialogue going. Let’s also stop with the insults. I do believe there is propaganda on both sides. None of our nations are beyond reproach. I sensed that you were of the belief that the 'massacre' recently being reported in the west is lies. Is that the case?

Wars and 'hostile takeovers' have occurred throughout history and will probably continue to occur until we annihilate the species. However, the sane among us do not condone killing in any name but may chose to defend. The original aggressors are the ones to blame.

I work with Chinese nationals and have noticed a very defensive stance when it comes to Tibet. IMO defensive normally indicates guilt, misplaced loyalty, anger or some other negative emotion. Why does it upset you when you see such sensationalist headlines? Is it because you believe that China is seen as a threat to the west and we would like nothing better than to nuke you or divide the country in some way?

I find it interesting that the 'troubles' in Ireland have been used as an example to illustrate this kind of situation. Except that the UK would like nothing better than to wash it's dirty hands of the whole affair and save a great deal of tax payers money in the process but things are never quite as simple as they seem. I don't think any fight for territory can be likened to any other; they're all unique situations that require unique solutions. Maybe the NWO is a good thing - one government... Can Gerry Adams be likened to the Dalai Lama?


Sorry for taking this away from the original subject but I think the divide between the nations ideas and perceptions is as big as it gets and I believe we could learn a great deal from open, honest discussion.



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 04:32 PM
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I thought people on this forum were not ignorant.



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by InSpiteOf
 


I guess my problem with that is, does it apply to the current Dalai Lama who was a 16 year old child? Think about your own world views at 16 and your knowledge of what was truly going on around you.

My personal belief is that Tibet and all Nations should be free of any form of Dictatorship. Religion should be a free choice unopposed by the Government unless it practiced some form of tyranny or violence. If the choice is between being under China's Dictatorial thumb or a similar fate under a Theistic Dictatorship; thats not really a choice. Both are patently wrong.

Perhaps the people of Tibet just want freedom to decide for themselves? I think that is most likely the case here. If they make a wrong decision, then it is their cross to bear and not a system forced on them by others.



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by die_another_day
 


Ignorant about what?

I know the language barrier is a bit of a problem but we only ever know what we experience, are told or learn through writings of others. It's the joining of the dots that makes the whole picture, is it not? What if lots of the numbers are missing? You wouldn't get the complete picture, would you?



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 04:55 PM
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I remember seeing something like this on pen and tellers bull#.
But they come off as arrogant douche bags and didnt cite sources wither from memory so this could infact be bull#.



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 04:55 PM
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Oh, right, the media in China who block everyone else's media coverage of the issue must be the truthful ones.

For the BBC, reporting China is a complicated affair at the best of times - and the current protests in Tibet present particular issues. Along with every other news organisation, China's internal security laws mean we can't get into the region without permission - that has been refused.

But in addition to our problems in the field, China also routinely blocks access to BBC services in most of the country. Until now, our international TV service, BBC World has been available in diplomatic compounds and in the big hotels aimed at foreign tourists.

But since the first reports of the protests emerged on Friday, even here, the BBC's reports on the trouble have been interrupted - not always terribly discreetly. Mention the Dalai Lama or trouble in Lhasa, and for a few moments the screen goes black. But getting accurate, first hand reports out of Tibet is a real problem. Without our own people on the ground, we're largely reliant on "eyewitness" accounts - we have no means of independent verification.

BBC(maybe biased, but who would really be more biased?

Come on, the reasons given in the first post look like those given by the Nazi Government of Germany for exterminating the Jews. Likely unfounded or an exaggeration made purely to enrage the populace into hatred, and giving no thought to anyone else's point of view.



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by Suspended
I think the divide between the nations ideas and perceptions is as big as it gets and I believe we could learn a great deal from open, honest discussion.


I agree
We need more discussion and less bickering. Our Governments keep us at odds for a reason. If we sit down together and talk and learn from each other things could only improve.

I was torn as to whether or not to flag this thread. I'm going to do that now as I think this is headed in a great direction in spite of the topic.



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by die_another_day
I thought people on this forum were not ignorant.


We are all "ignorant". We are born ignorant and we die ignorant. We gain a little knowledge and wisdom along the way, but damn little.

The OP is clearly aware of the West's shortcomings and we are aware of China's issues but only by dialog can we expect things to improve on either side. Name-calling and fist-pounding do little to improve our world it seems. Only by learning about each other can we hope to leave a better world.

Our success in the US is due mainly to the diversity of people in the original melting pot from which we were created. The same can happen on a world scale but only if we lay aside our differences and start talking.

I started out to write a scathing response, but as I studied the issue I realized it is not as cut and dried as I thought. I was embarrassed by what I was ready to post and after placing myself in the OP's shoes for a moment I realized the lunacy of throwing mud back and forth rather than trying to learn more about each other. I hope that Crazyboy returns to continue the discussion.



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 05:34 PM
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Dalai will never be proven guilty in America . And you will never like to point out that Laden is a freedom fighter.


Crazyboi, you insulting little prick.

Tell me when did the Dalai Lama ever fly planes into buildings, cut people's throats, plant IED land mines, sponsor suicide bombers ?

I apologise to other members for the colourfulness of my language, but I am offended by Crazyboi.

I now post the Tibetan flag on my posts to show unity with the people of Tibet. I urge others to copy what I am doing. Paste this in your posts and then at the front, replace *** with IMG. At the rear replace **** with /IMG.

[***]http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh212/727Kiwi/150-tibetflagthumb.jpg[***]





posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 05:42 PM
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The OP is clearly aware of the West's shortcomings and we are aware of China's issues but only by dialog can we expect things to improve on either side.


Blaine with respect and I hear your point, telling the Chinese B/S is communicating too.

It is high time especially during these Olympics that the people of China get the message loud and clear "B/S"

China is desperate to be accepted in the world community and thing that a flashy Olympic Games will paper over the cracks of human rights abuse.

Bloody right it's time for dialogue. If China wants to be accepted in the western world then let them come and talk to us about their invasion of Tibet and repression of the Tibetan people.

Until then we may aswell boycott Chinese exports. It's time to start buying goods made in USA or made in Mexico or made in Malaysia.

Anywhere I suggest except Chinese goods. The Chinese Government may be able to control public opinion there but it's time they learned that they cannot dictate public opinion outside their borders.

Let's boycott Chinese trade Goods until they give freedom to the Tibetan people...




[edit on 19-3-2008 by sy.gunson]



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 


do you think we should all have the tibetan flag as our temporary avatar?

just an idea...



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by meremortal
 


im not sure if that was sarcastic or not
but I for one think it is a Faboo idea!

I had a somewhat valid excuse to say faboo in order to keep it from being a one liner......good times!



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by die_another_day
I thought people on this forum were not ignorant.


Very nice of you to say so



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 05:58 PM
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reply to post by gluetrap
 


no not being sarcastic i am going to try and paste it!

sorry for the one liners but i am taking in all this information and i am not one that is good with words and i am by no means well informed .

but i am learning all the time thanks to this site..

i do agree with above posters that we need to talk and not mud sling, it will get us no where fast>>

i always thought tibet was a peacefull spiritual place, i have seen documentaries on discovery or nat geo

the people come across as beautifull and unassuming..

what ever politics are involved here i feel deep sorrow for the tibetan people who just want to be left alone to practise their life ..



posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 05:59 PM
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Meremortal I believe in freedom of personal expression. I do invite you to post the Tibetan flag anywhere you like on your posts. It would be confusing if everyone shared the same avatar.

Suspended:



I work with Chinese nationals and have noticed a very defensive stance when it comes to Tibet. IMO defensive normally indicates guilt, misplaced loyalty, anger or some other negative emotion. Why does it upset you when you see such sensationalist headlines? Is it because you believe that China is seen as a threat to the west and we would like nothing better than to nuke you or divide the country in some way?


I currently work with some Chinese nationals and some are very dear friends of mine.

That still does not mean I tolerate China's spin on Tibet.

The Dalai Lama's brother did go to Taiwan and become involved in CIA activity in Tibet in the early 1960s. The Dalai Lama did not support those activities and distanced himself.

At the time Tibet had been invaded and the war in Korea was still fresh. China was also supplying arms to the Viet Kong. Tibetans were Freedom fighters against communist aggression in their homeland.

Let me ask people this.

When Nazi Germany invaded Czechoslovakia, Poland, France, Norway, Greece, Yugoslavia, Denmark, Holland and Belgium, did the west stand back and say this enslavement by the Nazis has nothing to do with us ?

In fact had USA not sent arms and the Flying Tigers to China to help the Chinese throw out the Japanese there would not be a modern China.

The Chinese like to slag off the Americans but forget how many British and Americans died in Burma and China for Chinese freedom.




posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by die_another_day
I thought people on this forum were not ignorant.


Ya said it all my friend, ya said it all.



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