The Decay of UK Society

I could'nt have said it any better myself . It's time to start cracking heads and putting the fear of god into these lowlifes . It's obvious that these cowards are like a pack of dogs .You have to start culling the herds and teach these thugs a lesson they wont soon forget . Society is too soft on criminals . There was a time when honest people could walk their streets without fear and the police actually did their jobs without somebody hollering racist pigs and the such .for takeing these thugs on and putting them down . Now they have to be very careful in how they handle these pukes because you always have the ACLU,the SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER and other such organizations ready to pounce and holler RACISM ! People it's time to start takeing back your streets .Men , protect your homes , streets and especially your loved ones . Start a neiborhood walking patrol . Check with the Distict attorneys office and the court system to find out the laws that you can enforce , citizens arrest and the such . Just a thought but You have to do what you have to in order to have any peace of mind and show these cowards that there is no safe zone for them or their actions anymore !

reply to post by cruzion

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Actually you've got it backwards, the enormous amounts of illegal profit are the reasons drugs are being controlled by the state and not sold at the local store like the world's most harmful drug, alcohol.. Everyone profits from the sale of drugs except the user or his crime victims. The banks make huge sums of money by charging fees to launders, most enforcement agencies are now seizing assets of alleged drug runners whether they were purchased with drug money or not. The bank doesn't care because it's rigged the game where it wins whether you lose the property or not because the loan was underwritten and the cost defrayed by the insurance companies who charge you more because your neighbour's a drug felon. The cops get more toys and leeway to intrude on honest citizens' lives with the more seizures they make. The politicians talk tough about ridding their districts of drug crime by voting more power to seize more honest people's property because we're making our cities safe from the drug runners. The establishment has no political or economic incentive to create programs that will genuinely reduce the effects of drug abuse like treatment programs, better education and just plain better economic opportunites for those folks who're on the dole. The war on drugs is an abject failure. In the US, one of the most hard-core of the US conservatives, Dr. Ron Paul, is the only politician that I've heard of who has called for the end of the drug war and to treat drug abuse for what it was recognized as before 1916, a disease, and not a crime.

I think cassetteboy sum it up quite nicely in one of their skits.

David Attenborough narrates a typical night in a British town. It's like a war zone out there. From the album 'Dead Horse'. Contains mild swearing and the word "booby"

www.youtube.com...

I tend to think that a large part of problem was the exponential growth of capitalist-consumer-dirven marketing in the 1980s which now inspire our pre-30-somethings in the UK, and who are the mothers and fathers (and indeed possible grandmothers and grandfathers :-P) of our current children.

If I could change one single thing in UK society today it would be the complete removal of all forms of advertising from television. When you are bombarded non-stop from the idiot-box that you can have everything you want, that you are entitled to perfection, that you are the centre of your own universe, and that only your own desires are what need motivate you, it is not surprising that people become unreasonable in their expectations of life, and in their attitudes to what they are "entitled to" (do).

That's not to mention the issue of a majority of stuff no-one needs being marketed so hard at such expense to convince people they need it being a superbly wasteful use of natural resources. (I tend to take a cynical view that whenever I see a very good or lavish advert it is proof only that the product is in fact so irrelevant as to have no intrinsic value of its own!)

When you discover that in fact you can't have what you want, that you will be crippled with debt unless you just "get by on the minimum", that you have to work very hard in life, and that the reality is that you are not important, significant or going to have even a tiny fragment of your humunghously unrealistic material wants satisfied... well then you get very upset and frustrated. And I think that that is a major problem with our society - frustrated dreams fed inexorably by the lies from materialist brainwashing pouring out of the idiot box.

I think there are other problems too, but all generally caught up in the culture of self-worship (self-reliance as opposed to community reliance, self-deemed moral relativism as opposed to externally imposed moral absolutism, independence valued instead of integration, opinion valued above information, innovation valued above efficiency, personal rights claimed in denigration of personal responsibilities, and where "democracy" has come to mean "you can get your own way" instead of "you can all contribute collectively and equally"; the list can go on and on and on).

Cheers.

Rob.

[edit on 19-3-2008 by d60944]

Alot of good points in this thread. I cant support any vigilante actions though however tempting it would be. That could mainly be because I'm a wimp and despite random attacks I have endured over time (obviously my fault for my spikey red hair and mind of my own), I have never been able to retaliate. Yes, primarily due to fear of reprocussion.
I write this message looking out onto the massive chav infested estate where I went to school. (I live just outside of that area, but still close enough.) All I see everyday is screaming teenage mothers with their needy kids, boy racers with their dangerous cars accelerating around the roads and youths just hanging about waiting for trouble. Just the other week a 15 year old was killed after he drunkenly took his mates for a spin after a party. I just couldnt understand why the local paper called it a tradgey. HOwever I do NOT think it is any kind of justice. Its probably going to become the 4th or 5th memorial site in the area.


What I feel I needed to add to the thread, is that what also seems to be contributing to the degredation of society here is rely-ing on kids to keep the mothers out of work! I admit I only have first hand knowlage of this in one instance, but it was something that had been on my mind for a while. Kids here = free council house, benifits and the just pass go token out of work.
Why would you want to give that up when the child reaches school age? Just have another kid... Gradually having less money and room to support them and creating another awkward situation

I agree some of this can be attributed to the US-MTV type influx that we get bombarded with everyday. As already stated, its the obsession with celebrity lifestyle, money and sex that is rife within our media that has alot to do with the decay of youth society and society as a whole.

Myself and my friends had good upbringings and our parents did the best they could for us on their varying incomes. We were tought manners, respect and the basics of life, something I feel is missing from the upbringings of a large number of people. For the record, this was consistant weather the parents were divorced or not.

I can only see things getting worse unfortunatly. I'm not politcly minded and wouldnt know who to blame. I do know that the whole country is on eggshells, especially after the 9/11 thing and thats not helping.

As for immigration -

I dont fully understand the immigrant situation enough to contribute much, but I do know that a friend of mine was granted UK citizenship last week. He has a proper profession, a young family and is willing to work. People in this situation who want to support thier families and have a carrear out of the typical 'set up another flat pack convienience store/newsagents/corner shop' or rely on the dole despite easily being able to get a job if they tried, I believe are a credit to our society. He also speaks English well, which I believe is paramount to people that want to live here.

One of the reasons I brought up the newsagent thing, is because they are just more places to get cheap booze.

When you ship off your manufacturing jobs and have mechanized farming, what jobs are there to do other than be on the dole? There is not enough work for everyone in a post industrial economy. Or at least not enough work for as many people as there are currently.

Something we were never taught at school was how to manage money. Not that any of us actually had any, and only a few of the squares, with smart brains and bad pants had any real prospects of ever having any. But still, I didn't have a clue when I left school. I also thought education was unneccessary, and too much like hard work. I left school, signed on the dole, got an almost free appartment, and still sponged off my ma. When I got short of drinking money, I would go 'on the fiddle' and earn some extra money laboring, and still collect my welfare. Almost everyone I knew who didn't go to college did the same. There were even friends who went to college just to get the allowance they were given to go to college. They weren't there to learn anything, indeed, it was a hideous chore for most of them, but they got cash, and it kept their folks off their backs at the same time. This BS went on for like 18 months, and then my old man turned up, seen what a sponging useless parasite I was being, and dragged me off to London to work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, as he had done for his entire life! He taught me money, he taught me ethics, he taught me honesty, taught me how to not piss all my money up the wall every weekend, how to save, to organise, have goals, and have respect for how hard life is for the working class. Before that happened, I was a hopeless case. For that reason, I can understand the frustrations at a lack of prospects, and not having anything, or any real options, but never once did I ever go out and steal, or sell drugs, or take my frustrations out on some random car/bus stop/guy in the street.
I don't know for sure, but the realities of life, and what you have to do to earn even normal achievements like own a car, house, support a wife and kids, are something that was blatantly missing from mine, and indeed, many of my friends upbringings. Neither our parents, nor our school gave much input. I don't know how that issue could be addressed, but it was a huge fault-line that obstructed me achieving anything early on in my life. I know the same isn't going to apply if your daddies paying for you to go to Oxbridge, but that was probably the biggest hurdle I had to overcome, being working class and from the North of England, and having a hugely abusable welfare system!
Sorry for the rant. I just think kids today need an example, and not one delivered by the TV. If parents and school don't provide it, then possibly a stint in national service would. Although it seems like a solution, roving gangs of adults giving the beat down to gangs of youths, will probably only increase the youth suicide rate. If they were taught to respect people and others property in the first place, and were given a punishment early on in their lives from a school or parent, the majority of them wouldn't be out committing crime, and looking to cause trouble as a source for entertainment.

[edit on 20-3-2008 by cruzion]

That`s ridiculous! I for one think you did right.

For our non-British friends, here's a link to a news story with a picture of two of them, and the girl they kicked to death in a park...
news.bbc.co.uk...

The apparent reason was they didn't like them dressing 'Gothic'!
If you're in Britain, and you see a young male that looks like either of these two, know that they are an idiot with degenerate morality, and treat them like such. Forewarned is forearmed.

reply to post by Acidtastic

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Genius! just sheer bloody genius!...

Funny this thread came up, a good one too, i live on an estate in London, actually lived in london all my life, in different areas, ive had run ins with the type of s*its you are talking about, pouring beer down my door, and through my letterbox, was so angry went storming out there, but in hindsight, maybe i shouldnt of got so angry, anyways they went, but London is getting worse, and ive had my fill of london now, and am moving outside of london, hey this is a great chance for me to ask if anyone knows any nice areas, just outside london, but near enough for me to get into the city quickly for work etc. Any idea's?

On topic, bring back national service, bring in tough new laws, giving the edge to victims and not to the criminals, jails are not working, like any gang its seen as part of life and a place to learn new deviant ways.

When i reported what happened, the police told me the community officers deal with anti social behaviour, i rang them but they can take up to 3 days to get back to you, i know their stretched but how ridicules is that?

You cant rely on the police, if we dont protect ourselves, who will?

Starred and flagged.





[edit on 27-3-2008 by Denied]

I was once the assistant manager of a video rental shop and usually had to work until 10pm on a weekend night.
The job itself was enjoyable but the location wasn't too good, with a bad estate behind the store and on occasion I would get a little bit of trouble from the roaming chavs.
But usually nothing I couldn't handle until one night about seven of them walked in and started trashing the place after threatening me, since the shop was tiny there was no privacy for me to ring the police and we didn't have an alarm button and our CCTV was a fake one.

So these youngsters (all between say thirteen and seventeen years old) robbed any food and drink they could get their hand on and tried to get behind the counter (where stupidly I fought back and stopped them, but took a few punches to the face) and when they left i was bleeding from the lip and the shop was trashed.

I then rang the Police.... who didn't turn up (until three days later), so i proceeded to ring my Boss who was out drinking with his brother.
Needless to say they were a bit drunk and got quite angry when they arrived to see the state of the shop.
My boss and his bro played rugby and were quite broad.

So they went out and found the lads and gave them a little tanning (nothing too serious just a grip and a slap) and scared the crap outta them...

They never came back to the shop, but i often wonder what would have happened if the police did turn up in time?
Most of the kids would not have been charged with anything and would then use that as strength for repeating that crime (possibly with more serious consequences to the victim)... but thanks to a bit of scary force from two big six footers, those cowards never came back...

Justice!

reply to post by Denied

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Berkshire is nice, with easy access to London. I live in Wokingham myself and the Chav population is very low. Reading, on the other hand, can be quite hectic, so only live there if you like the convenience of city life.

A lot of comments are popping up about the police and how they fail to act and when they do they arrest the wrong people and you want answers as to why etc.

As ive already mentioned, im a copper in a large UK city where the type of people we are talking about run the streets, thats why i posted this thread in the first place. Speaking from a police point of view ill try and answer some of the points and questions, but throughout it all, please bear in mind that 99% of coppers on the street are just as pissed off with the country and laws as you are.

POLICE RESPONSE TIMES: its all too common for us to take 2 or 3 days to get to a reported incident and that is not acceptable in anyones mind. You call the police then we should be there within 5 mins! BUT, we cant because we are too thinly stretched. Take where i work, last week on nights there were 8 of us for a population of 300,000, do the math. On an average day my police force receives around 3000 calls from people wanting to speak with a bobby. 3 shifts a day of 8 coppers (max!), again, do the math.

Our whole inability to keep the streets safe ultimately boils down to the government who keep us indoors completing a million different pieces of paperwork (on average 3 hours worth for a simple shoplifter!) so that they can fudge the figures and then spew it all out in propoganda form and tell you all that violent crime is down and the streets are safe! WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!

A lot of you have mentioned that if you took action yourselves then it would be you behind bars, which unfortunately, as things stand now, that would most likely be the end result. As the police we can only continue to work due to a thing known as 'POLICING BY CONSENT'. Basically it means that it is only the will of the people that allow us to arrest them! how many millions of people are in the country? yet there is only about 150,000 police. Do you really think we could stop you all from doing what you want?

We talk about how vigilantism wouldnt work etc etc. But most of those fears and pitfalls of it are old and been around from a time when the law was something to be feared. We used to hang people and 20 yrs inside meant 20 years inside, not 3 for good behaviour and whilst you inside we'll give you a degree and an XBox.

Please, mull this one over. . . . . " Why should we fear taking action to ensure our way of life is safe from those who wish to impose on it for fear of legal action against us, when the legal system in place is obviously failing to prevent crime in the first places?"