Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Social Engineering the 2012 cult

page: 2
10
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join

posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 11:37 AM
link   
Good post, flagged!

I agree that the hype around 2012 is reaching scary levels. Amongst it's proponents, it is not even a matter of "if." To them it might as well already happened, that's how surely they speak of "the event," never mind that you can't get more than a handful to agree on what the event is, precisely. I don't think it's a cult per se, because there doesn't seem to be enough cohesion and structure in people's ideas....yet. I could definitely see cults developing out of this hysteria. I hope we don't see mass suicides if nothing happens; and I doubt anything world shattering will happen on that exact date. I feel bad for the most extreme believers, honestly. It's as if they have nothing to live for, but for 2012. In those extreme cases, I think we'll see some tragic things.




posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 01:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by amigo

Skyfloating, the problem I have with what you write is that you assume everyone in the World is behaving like people in North America: being dead centered on the 2012 and its significance, or are blindly buying into it (and the merchandise based on it.)


Which is another reason to doubt 2012 though...most other people out there dont even know about it.



Further more, even people in North America are devoid from that 2012 mania because only the progressive California circles are the ones who appear to be pushing this cult, as you put it, like they did many other things in the past, and are on the forefront of the 2012 move.
Why is that I cannot say without deeper research and I really do not wish to label people in California because it is only those snake oil salesmen that you mention who are peddling this.


I lot of the stuff thats come out of California has changed society. A lot of it is good. A lot of spiritual stuff too. Which doesnt mean everything is good though.



There are millions of people who do not know about 2012 and do not care about it because they are preoccupied with daily survival, and they are in the majority. Making a 2012 a big deal is only happening in places (such as this and other forums and numerous websites) where the subject is discussed and where participants get a wrong impression of wide spread knowledge of the 2012 and what it supposedly signifies.


You have a point there. Sometimes we at ATS forget that none of this is widespread at all.



Having said the above, part of me would be greatly disappointed if nothing happens in the next ten years. I have close friends who had visions and dreams of the future (not induced by drugs or other artificial means) who have said that we are in for a really bumpy ride in the near future..


The problem I have with this reasoning is that there are already trillions of interesting things happening everyday...have been happening...and will continue to happen. Just because what is happening may not be what someone following a strange doctrine may expect, is no reason to dissociate from life and its many happenings in general.



Don't you agree it's an ideal opportunity for something lurking in the shadows to become that next best thing and take over under its "wing" all those "lost souls". Seeing how most people on this planet constantly await some divine intervention refusing to take charge of the situation and create a change that would make a difference, it is not unlikely that they will get that divine intervention through some fakery which will only solidify the grip our "overlords' have over all of us already, or transition us from one system to another (could be a ploy by the Church? )


Yes...thats the possibility I am wanting to keep in mind. I dont want to actively promote this possibility, but at least keep it as an option as not to get duped to easily when the time comes.



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 02:41 PM
link   
It is because of this very point that I have decided to take another look at 2012! Ive decided that something is happening to the World, we do seem to be moving into a new era. However 2012? I can't spend the next 4 years planning for this so Im going to live my life as well as I can and what ever happens happens... I no longer believe 2012 is definate. I believe in ascension but not that is ends in a massive event in 2012.

Basically Ive changed my mind! Mainly due to the great debates on ATS.
Im pro ascension, just not so pro 2012 anymore



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 03:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by Mr Green
It is because of this very point that I have decided to take another look at 2012! Ive decided that something is happening to the World, we do seem to be moving into a new era. However 2012? I can't spend the next 4 years planning for this so Im going to live my life as well as I can and what ever happens happens... I no longer believe 2012 is definate. I believe in ascension but not that is ends in a massive event in 2012.

Basically Ive changed my mind! Mainly due to the great debates on ATS.
Im pro ascension, just not so pro 2012 anymore


Thanks for your cheerful comments in this thread


I´ll tell you what: You can also be neither pro nor con and just take it as it comes



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 12:00 AM
link   
Definitely we should not hold our breath for another four years waiting for something grandiose or terrible to happen. Our time is now and we should live it as we please (as far as our fictitious freedoms allow us) and not be bothered with the future, though as many have said it here, keep the door open to other possibilities and be aware of them transpiring just so we are not caught sleeping on the watch.



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 05:55 AM
link   
reply to post by amigo
 


Exactly keep your mind open to ideas just don't become so blinded by one single idea. Ive changed I know something is happening which is good. Ive awoken and I will not go back to sleep but I must trust my own instincts, when a small group of people tell you they have the answer to life and everything they probably don't. None of us truely has the answer to the 2012 question so we should just enjoy the ride, but try not to loose ourselves along the way.



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 05:51 PM
link   
Hey all great level headed well thought out discussion, it is my pleasure to be allowed to chime in! THANX.

I have some things to add that I haven't seen brought up. You have all mentioned the Mayan calander, but thier culture and most of thier people are dead and gone, but there is a 2012 prediciting calender that is still living, the Hopi!

I was born and raised in Winslow Az, "boerder land to the rez". I grew up a white minority, so I could not help but learn a lot from the Navajo and Hopi cultures.

The Hopi religion is super similar to the ancient Jewish one, in many respects, one of wich is proficey from "The Great Spirit". In thier version of 2012 it is not the "end" but a new begining, AND its not the first, they say we are now in the 4th age of man, and 2012 will bring the 5th. This is a bit defrent concept than just a "new age", it is a cycle, an "old age" simply returned.

Wich brings me back to the Mayan calander, what shape is the calender? It is a giant circle. I don't think the Mayans thought 2012 was the end of it all, just the end of the cycle. Really want the next Mayan horriscope, after 2012? Well just flip back to the begining. Their calender is often represented by large gears, some are just larger than others, and the 2021 one is just the first/last tooth of the biggest.

"There is nothing new under the sun"

Same goes for cults, religions, snake oil salesmen, believers, debunkers, suckers, and jack asses.

I think proficey is just an educated geuss, based on past cycles, since for the future to be set it removes the possibility of free will or the ability to actualy choose anything. Many calvinists would say that is the case, that we are but God's little puppets, as if God is so weak, and we are so important, He needs us to come to some particular end.

I think your right about it being a cult. I have been struggleing today with how everyone around me is in a giant mental prison with no bars. That God or his Messiah NEED to come back for some reason implies that they are gone, and that they have to be here to do thier job. I see this as the mental prison that either society has built its self, or like they would have you believe evil forces have built for us, but again that puts responsibility on someone elses shoulders.

It sounds way out there but this is what I keep coming to:

You can do nothing you can't imagine yourself doing- thought is the 1st step to reality. Proficies keep us from thinking thoughts the wardens don't like, or from wondering too far away from the mental prison.

The past and future are fiction, made up concepts that help draw us deeper into the mental prison, there is only now. Wich brings me to my kind of "new age" type belief.

All is one, one is all. That applies to present past and future. That applies to you and me, us and the aliens, and yup EVEN God. But untill you become omnipotent, it might be best not to try walking on water.


My ex had a cool saying she got somewhere. "If you have one foot in the past, and one foot in the future, it means your pissing on the present."

FREEDOM: 1: the quality or state of being free: as a: the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action b: liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another : independence c: the quality or state of being exempt or released usually from something onerous

CULT:1: formal religious veneration : worship
2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator
5 a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b: the object of such devotion c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

I'll try freedom, thanx.



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 06:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by HellHound63S

the Mayan calander, but thier culture and most of thier people are dead and gone, but there is a 2012 prediciting calender that is still living, the Hopi!


A second source is always good when asking about the reality of something.




The Hopi religion is super similar to the ancient Jewish one, in many respects, one of wich is proficey from "The Great Spirit". In thier version of 2012 it is not the "end" but a new begining, AND its not the first, they say we are now in the 4th age of man, and 2012 will bring the 5th. This is a bit defrent concept than just a "new age", it is a cycle, an "old age" simply returned.!


Beyond all the hype, this is what seems more plausible: Not the end, and not a sudden shift to the better, but a slow transition.

As to your other points: Good points!



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 06:36 PM
link   
reply to post by HellHound63S
 


FREEDOM: 1: the quality or state of being free: as a: the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action b: liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another : independence c: the quality or state of being exempt or released usually from something onerous

CULT:1: formal religious veneration : worship
2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator ealth cults>
5 a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b: the object of such devotion c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

I'll try freedom, thanx.


And I will join you .This is an individual thing I see that now. Only you can choose your way no one else. Freedom is everything as is free will.



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 04:25 AM
link   
I would like to add my 2 cents on this.

Firstly, I believe in Destiny. I could write a long chapter about my researches and very personal experiences but I won't derail the thread.

Secondly, the Mayan civilization was somehow way advanced astronomically than it should have been. How did they acquire such precise knowledge? How did they make such accurate predictions? This reminded me of the Dogons, the African tribe with astronomical knowledge they say were brought to them by aliens.


I completely agree with the OP on one point - Too many people have jumped to the 2012 bandwagon, including people with commercial interests and it really killed the message our ancestors tried to convey.

I do believe we are approaching the end of an era. It is not going to happen overnight, obvious and terrifying signs and when it's all over, a new age will begin.

What will happen is simple, the Sun - like every other star - have periodical surge of activity (flares). I am talking about massive flares that will make the sun 2, 3 times bigger. It will last quite some time and won't be without consequences. Everything electronic will fry, scorching heat, disastrous humanitarian problem, scarce fresh water and when this period is over, expect a massive flooding from all the vaporised water. It's not a wild guess, NASA also mentioned a period of huge solar activity for 2012 and can not predict its intensity.

I believe in this because I have very often premonitions in my sleep. Most of the time it is mundane, but at times I see the near future and it looks just like that. I had them for a few years and researched everything I could get my hands on until I found the Maya prophecy and everything came into a circle.



ps: I am not a doomsday cultist, don't have a website or products for sale, I don't accept donations and I am certainly not trying to convince anyone. Just sharing my beliefs and research.



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 06:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by InSpiteOf

Next your going to tell me the Q-Ray bracelet is a sham!


well me personally, i wear like 12 on each arm, kinda like iron-ring hard chi kung conditioning? you know the old kung fu movies with the guys with rings on their arms, most recently portrayed in kung fu hustle, the movie? like that.

because, 1 q-ray just isnt focusing enough positive energy ions into my aura and that sort of thing, I want the full effect. when i pick up a glass of water, i can make it boil within 45 seconds, and see this is why i bought so many and learned the secret shaolin iron ring chi kung; so that i can sterilize my water after the apocalypse on december 21st, 2012, man. oh yeah, its going down at 11:11pm greenwich mean time. just because.




posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 10:35 AM
link   

Originally posted by TheOracle

Firstly, I believe in Destiny. I could write a long chapter about my researches and very personal experiences but I won't derail the thread.


I dont believe in the idea of destiny contradicting free will or free will contradicting destiny. They are not opposites for me. In other words: 5 tracks are laid out as my destiny, which one I choose is my free will.
This is simple physics as well. Its also simple common sense: Stand at a crossroads: You can go left, right, back, straight or diagonal. You cannot however immediatly jump to another city. Your destiny is to be at that crossroads. Which road you choose is your free will.

As to the rest of your post: Alright



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 12:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by TheOracle

Firstly, I believe in Destiny. I could write a long chapter about my researches and very personal experiences but I won't derail the thread.


I dont believe in the idea of destiny contradicting free will or free will contradicting destiny. They are not opposites for me. In other words: 5 tracks are laid out as my destiny, which one I choose is my free will.
This is simple physics as well. Its also simple common sense: Stand at a crossroads: You can go left, right, back, straight or diagonal. You cannot however immediatly jump to another city. Your destiny is to be at that crossroads. Which road you choose is your free will.

As to the rest of your post: Alright



Its called illusion of choice. Every single decision you make is not random. You make the choice you are meant to make. To put it simply, your body and brain is full of electrical impulses and chemical reactions - if we could put them into equation then we would be able to predict every decision one will make.
The dice you throw isn't random, you can calculate what will come out if you have the tools and data (speed, strength of throw, mass of dice, direction, wind ...) Same applies for the decision making process.



posted on Mar, 23 2008 @ 03:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by TheOracle
Its called illusion of choice. Every single decision you make is not random. You make the choice you are meant to make. To put it simply, your body and brain is full of electrical impulses and chemical reactions - if we could put them into equation then we would be able to predict every decision one will make.
The dice you throw isn't random, you can calculate what will come out if you have the tools and data (speed, strength of throw, mass of dice, direction, wind ...) Same applies for the decision making process.


Yes Ive heard and read about the idea/theory, but I dont buy it. The reason is, that its not practical. As a pragmatic person Im going to say that I have the choice to stay in bed in the morning or get up. And sometimes I´ll choose to stay and sometimes I´ll choose to get up. It gives me a sense of meaning and responsibilty in life as opposed to fatalist views. You will have noticed that countries who hold fatalist views are often poorer and less productive than those who practice self-determinism.

And btw: This is very much on topic because my opening post is critical of those who think the future is pre-determined.



posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 12:36 PM
link   
Nice thread.

The theory i find most plausible based on the little i think i know of the workings of the universe is that our solarsystem is traveling to a part of the Milky way that has a higher level of vibration/radiation/insert terminology here, namely the middle of it. I think the Mayans, regarding the astronomers they where knew that this would be happening.

So if we are really mainly or even totally made out of energy-vibrations condensed at a level that we seem solid any kind of increased level of energy will have an impact on beings residing in that area. So yeah, we will enter a hightend area of energy and are doing it as we speak so we will have consequenses because of that.


That we are entering a piece of space that affects our solarsystem can be backed by the following link Pluto warming up Google link

That we are indeed flying through the galaxy at an angle can be backed too: Solar System Sails Sideways Through Milky Way Google link

This picture is from 2004, not sure about the validity of the site btw but i think it can be researched further. The picture however is very close to what i believe is happening.

Anyway, in short. Even without touching the spiritual or 2012 doomsites there is a case to be made something is indeed up. And i think vibration meeting vibration alters both both of them ( there is something called anti-sound or something the cancels out other sounds, Active noise control ) So yeah, the solarsystem is warming up, not only the earth no, there are signs to be found we are going through the centreline of the milkyway and vibration alters other kindsof vibration when passing through it.

Ok, maybe we will die of radiation sickness or whatever, but yeah, i'd like to think there is a possibility that the vibration will give us some help in activating our dorment abilities.



posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 03:00 PM
link   
I think we do everything out of our own free will, and that goes for spiritual ascension or whatever you wanna to label it. I don't doubt the power of predictions however, but I also feel we shape our own destiny. I have been wrestling with the idea of destiny for the past 3 years, because I was told my future some years back, and started going a little crazy when I watched it come true over and over again.

Its like... you can tell me..tommorow I'm going arrive at work at..7:50 or something.. well.. because I already knew that.. I might try to make things unfold that way.

I think this is why those who can predict choose to word these things differently.. They don't tell you what will happen, they tell you what COULD happen..should you follow that current path.

Anyways... as far as spiritual evolution... I believe it is constant.. and that 2012 is just a date, BUT WAIT...In these recent years I believe we are starting to evolve in a spiritual sence, but what could make any date signifigant? I thought about it.. and this is what I've come to believe..

If there is a leap in spiritual evolution.. I believe there will be a cause... a change in perception that changes the mentality of people on a global scale...affecting thought manifestation..."the laws of attraction" - (skyfloating).. People will start to think differently..and through this line of thinking.. our world..or reality starts to drastically change (for the better I hope). What i'm getting here is something so signifigant that it changes some of our core beliefs drastically. I'm talking about a massive flyby of UFOs or something to that degree... The supposed planet X shpwing up perhaps?

Something that will make people stand in the street, and stare up at the sky in silence... knowing that their world just got a lot smaller... and that their truly are greater, beautiful things out there, and that they really should wise up.

My room-mate had a dream similar to this. I've read stories of monks prediciting this as well... like a bunch of UFO's in the sky, and people staring up at them.

I believe... if 2012 or any other date has a signifigant change, it will be through something of this nature.


As far as things alligning galactically... ( i dont have the sources) but I keep reading little articles that come straight from nasa (those lying bastards)... about things aligning and theories of entering dimensions all around the 2012 date.

I also read that we aren't part of our galaxy, rather we orbit it eliptically.. and that by 2012..we will join with it.

If you want to look at that in a spiritual sence.. Its kind of interesting how we as earth people feel alone in the universe... maybe that explains our star's isolation? and learning otherwise could in effect bring us itno syncronicity.

I honestly believe everything in this universe is 1's and 0's and even the most far fetched things are explainable if you took the millions of years to do the math. I could drone on about that though. Its funny how I try to throw logic into my own personal spirituality.


I am a 2012 believer... IF... something profound happens on that date.. Otherwise... I don't discount spiritual evolution.. but I think it is on-going, and I don't think if "nothing" happens on 2012..that it means we haven't evolved spiritually.

There ya go skyfloating.



posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 03:02 PM
link   
by the way, the galatic alignment and dimension references all came from threads off this forum, and I do believe they came from NASA..

I couldn't tell you what threads though.

It doesn't matter to me though, 2012 or not, I'm on my own path to spiritual growth



posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 03:12 PM
link   
imagine if everyone in the world saw a fleet of ufo's in the sky.

They look up with dreams and ambitions, others with confusion and fear.

People start to think differently.. this effects some people positively, others negatively because it conflicts with their ego and beliefs that have been programmed into them.

Either way... if there isn't an imediate change, look at this way...

the world goes on the same... nothing changes... the same old bs happens over and over again.. propaganda here.. war there... but lingering in the back of everyones mind is the thought of space travel, living in a utopian society..all the thoughts you get when you think of other life in the universe... and suddenly..people get tired playing the same old game.. they want change... they won't stand for it anymore.. This is slow at first, but it begins to pick up.. people begin to talk..people begin to do things the right way.. they begin to respect each other... and society... very gradually.. gets itself together..

I think an event like that would have that certain possibility.

Perhaps that is exactly what is going to happen... perhaps 2012 marks the end of the mayan calender (which just means it brings in the age of choice for us..to shape our own destiny)... because aliens/spiritual beings have chosen that date specifically...


Or if you want.. you can believe in solar cycles and the grand connection and divine pattern of the universe, and believe things will happen on all range of frequencies, and all that. I sure hope thats the case anyway
.

We'll just have to wait and see. And make sure to be very aware during that time.. I do believe that now things are changing anyway..2012 or not.



posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 04:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by CavemanDD
Its funny how I try to throw logic into my own personal spirituality.


Rationality and spirituality/intuition is the only way to go, i do the same thing. Rationally speaking ( if you ask the most of the people out there ) a patch of universe should not be able to effect us or it would have did that already.

And speaking of the UFO fly-by that is popping up here and there, i'm reluctant for that one, to accept it as a good thing or even a real thing. You are a member of ATS so i think you have a weak spot for the underlying reality of things. Going that step further then what the hypnotube shows ya
. So i'm not sure of anything but will take in account the whole Project bluebeam in the back of my head. I will take a long and hard look at those things if and when they fly over my country. I will not jump the gun and state they are our saviours just to be hoodwinked and decieved for no good.

Spiritually-wise i have taken it up for the last 3 or 4 years too, btw
. Although i started it before i stumbled upon the date of all dates, harbinger of death and destruction or enlightenment and a couple more dimensions: 2012. Anyway, it will be interesting the next couple of years, no matter wich way the whole thing plays out and bottom line is to never let your fears get the better of you because if and when the whole LOA thing plays a part in it then you will create your own misery on top of the global one. Be happy, be detached if you need to be and know that everything will be ok in the end no matter what you believe in or even if you never heard of 2012 and it turns out to be real. That's the way i see it and it's a nice viewpoint to be in because i don't have any urge to warn or save people because in the end nobody needs saving. It's all good.



posted on Apr, 3 2008 @ 05:14 PM
link   
reply to post by Harman
 




I'm only entertaining the idea because 1. the amount of trust and signifigance I put in dreams, and 2. Because apparently a bunch on monks have "seen" this, so says my room-mate.. i can't back that up.. but I trust my room-mate.

I for one, would love this, but...I really don't know how the aliens will reveal themselves, or if they even will. Not until we're ready anyway.

That is.. if you believe in aliens. I most certainly do, because I believe in infinite possibility.






top topics



 
10
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join