Males against single females with children.

My finger is over the foe button as well Jedi..
And honestly..Someone started a thread as a personal attack against you yesterday, and I stood up for you..and all other members because it is wrong. The thread was trashed..and you probably never saw it.
Man you have audacity.
A donation of either sperm or egg..does not make a parent.
Children are born out the sexual act of a male and female and IMHO GOD has nothing to do with that.
How DARE you say that a child should stay in a home with an abusive or neglectful parent because GOD says so?
Hell hath no fury over what some of the Christians here or elsewhere would do to you over that comment. Are you all for "Spare the Rod, and spoil the child " too Jedi?
Dear boy..and I say boy..because even at your age you have no idea how to be a man...you have opened a can of worms here far bigger than you are.
I suggest you duck and cover. FAST.

Originally posted by jedimiller

let's just say that I went to court. My wife wanted to leave me and take my kids. reason. "He drinks alot". "He spends his money with his friends".

This would be my argument in court and I dare any judge to take this case.

"Your honor, in god we trust. God wants my children to grow up with me by their side. When god gave me those children, he didn't just give them to my wife, he gave them to me too. I have the right to raise those children too. Are you going to deny god? how do you know that god doesn't want me to raise these kids? I can assure you that the only reason these kids are here on earth today is because of two people, a male and a female. And we both are responsible in god's eye to raise those kids together. if you take my children away you are against god".

Jedi,

I think you are wrong here. Judges look to both parties in the matter, especially when children are concerned.

If your wife can prove you have put the family into financial hardship due to drinking and spending all your money with your friends, she would be able to get a divorce based on that. You would then have your wages garnished to pay child support before your money could ever be in your hands.

There is also a term called "irreconcilable differences" that many divorces are granted on. Do you have any idea what that means? If you and your wife were to argue about finances and your drinking all the time, especially when the kids are around, she would get the divorce.

In both those cases I just mentioned, the children would be better off without you. Any judge could see you care less about them if you drink and spend all your money with your friends, putting the children in the back seat.

Think about it. Really, you should put more thought into what you type here first!

Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
I think you are upset because of your particular situation. Have you ever sat down with your mom and asked her why she left your dad?

Everyone hates my mom over this. My sisters always rebelled against my mother over this. Still, I think we all refuse to believe my mom.

She left my dad when I was 5 years old. She took it upon herself to take care of us. She says that was very hard and that's why she became an alcoholic. She became abusive with my 2 older sisters because they wanted to date when they were 15 and they were angry for not having a father..they hated her for that. still do and they are 40.

Reason she left my dad? still unknown. we heard things like, "he was a cheater", "We got death threats", "He was forced to leave us by a lover".

Bunch of nonsense. how can she leave my dad because some other woman threatened her? makes no sense at all.

Before my dad died at 65 we used to talk about once a year and i'd ask him about the divorce. he just say, "Your mom was very jealous". Still, I hate my mother for not telling us the exact truth and taking it upon herself to think she could handle four children on her own.

Sorry for the rant. I've got to go.

Jedi..Iam sorry that you had a childhood like that. But to blame all single parents is just as wrong as blaming either your mother or your father.
Iam not going to air your dirty laundry here Jedi..but I do recall you stating some facts about your father in another thread that lead me to believe your mother was justified in her actions. It is too bad she did not have the support network she needed and turned to alcohol for solace.
Don't hold that against her.
Obviously there are issues that should have been dealt with years ago in your family. Deal with them now..and move on. You are holding back your own progression in life by dwelling on all of this. It is unhealthy. I rarely suggest counselling...but perhaps a support group would benefit you in some way. You could talk with others about the issues you have in common, and it would help you to network outside of the internet a bit.
Jedi..it's just a suggestion.

Originally posted by jedimiller

What would any judge say to this? I'm ready to prove that god created man and woman to raise children together and I challenge anyone to prove me wrong...

You walk a very dark path young paddywagon..

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing."

Just keep your Babel fish in your pocket there or else we'll all find ourselves run over on the next zebra crossing..

I would like to add my two cents worth to this thread. I may say things you agree with and things you disagree with, but here goes.

I am the father of three terrific children who happen to live with their mother as a result of our divorce. The reason of the divorce was essentially due to Irreconcilable Differences, but in the state of NY that is not grounds for a divorce. Anyway, I am an absentee father by choice. I did it to protect my children in a sense. Their mother is a better provider and can raise them in a manner that I believe hasn't nor will it screw them up for life. I believe had we stayed together they may have become screwed up. The reason is because I was ( and to a degree still am ) very immature. It took my infidelity and subsequent divorce to realize that I was, and so I sought out counseling to rectify the situation. I still have a long way to go, but I can say that my relationships with my children, ex-wife, and new girlfriend are better because of it!!

This next statement may ruffle some feathers, so be fore warned. In my opinion, to some degree Jedi is correct. I do believe that there are some women out there who do believe that they and they alone, can raise children by themselves. There are women that leave a man and take the children out of spite. Not through any fault of the guy, just to be spiteful!! No this is not the case for me or for anyone in my family, but I have heard of it happening. I believe this is just another example of how messed up humanity really is, but that is a separate thread in and of itself!!!

As I said, just my two cents here. I do welcome any and all criticism as it only makes me a better person in the long run.

reply to post by bretmav67


Bret..a star for that. What you did..and what you just posted took guts.
If more men were like that the world would be a better place.
Welcome to ATS.

reply to post by bretmav67


I would like to say how much I appreciate your reply. It is wonderful that you had the interest of your children first and foremost. Hopefully they understand.

I am wondering if you pay child support, though? Immaturity is no excuse for your children having to be in a financial bind.

I suppose there really are some women out there that would take the children away from a person just to be spiteful, but I think that is a very small percentage. Anyone that would do that is pure evil in my opinion, and what goes around comes around. The children of such a person will figure it out in the long run.

Best wishes to you!

I just got out of an eight year relationship 4 months ago, and was never married! I can tell you that I am not missing all the accusations, name calling, desensitizing...etc. thrown my way!

My children witnessed way more than they should have when we had our disagreements!

They were the one's who actually told me he needed to move.
I am the one who was always scared that I could'nt raise them myself but, I have to, and no, I'm not wanting another man at the moment!

I want to be able to not rely on a man.

...and yes, it seems like children grow up, and carry on the same relationship circle as there parents did most of the time, it did me but, I did'nt get married 7 times like my mom!

I'm actually scared to marry, just because of that, and have never felt the love that I think I deserve!

*edited to remove detailed drama*

[edit on 3/19/2008 by Givenmay]

reply to post by jedimiller


Your version of the "truth", you mean. Stereotyping all single mothers as you do, blinds you to the reality that sometimes women don't have a choice in the matter. To stay is to take the chance that they or their kids get hurt by the abusive bastard they're living with. Financial reasons only? What the Hell? Your version of "truth" needs some work, start by opening your eyes. More often then not, they are fleeing an intolerable situation.

Truly an offensive little thread.

reply to post by Givenmay


Oh my freaking GOD! What a terrible person to do that to you!

I was married I was with this "woman" for over 5 years. (what a waste of my time) I thought I was in love, I thought that love would conquer all. (boy was I fooled) I won't get into a rant over this here cause they read every post I make and her new victim has an ats account

Anywho, Love sucks big time Hoovers. Whoever wants to be in love is just a sadist.

Women have been raising children alone for quite a while now jedimiller. They seem to do it just fine. Guys only get to pay child support for those children. So it's a win win for the woman. She gets out of a relationship she does not want to be in anymore and gets a nice healthy paycheck every couple of weeks.

The kids? Well if the relationship was like the one described by Givenmay then the kids are much better off without that in their lives. Some times though the father is a nice decent human being that want's to be a part of there children's lives. You cannot be a daddy when you can only see your children on the weekends. Raising children is a full time job and when you can't do that job you miss out on something special.

Let me reiterate this: Paying child support is not being a father. Being able to be a father is being a father. That means spending time with your children and teaching them about life every single day. Not on the weekends, and not when the ex wife allows you to be around your child.

reply to post by Enthralled Fan


I do not pay child support. My former wife does not believe in it. As stated, the children are better off with her because her job provides them with a home, food, medical and dental, et al. My children are well provided for and want for nothing do to both of their parents. Also it was agreed upon due to the cost involved for me just to be able to see my children that I do not pay. They now reside in another country half way around the world and with todays prices it costs me more than what twelve months of support would come to just to be able to see them for a few weeks out the year around the holidays. I know, that is not a valid excuse or reason not to pay, but seeing how she makes more in a years time than I do.... that is what we came up with. Does that still earn me a star?? No, I do not believe it does.
My children are happy and we communicate as often as possible. My whole point is this, children are resilient and can get through anything given adequate Love and moral support. For anyone who might have some issues regarding their life experiences, I personally suggest some kind of counseling. It can help.

reply to post by bretmav67


I still say you deserve a star. You owned up to your mistakes..tried to change your life, and even though your children live far away you are still a part of their lives and you may it work the best way you can.

reply to post by bretmav67


Actually, I think it's really nice you were able to work out such a situation with your ex-wife. Not too many people can.

As somebody pointed out earlier, not every situation is black and white. What works for you, might not work for others.

What is always important is the best interest of the children, which you have pointed out, you are more than willing to do.

I did give you a star. I appreciate honesty.

Thanks

WOW I have had the misfortune in my time here at ATS to read some ignorant or miguided threads but this one is by far covers both areas.

Cast aside the surpreme arrogance that the OP has in his opening thesis, add into the lack of any evidence (biblical or otherwise) that really proves it, add in the sheer trollery factor leads me to one of two conclutions:

This is either either a sorry attempt to simply troll, or the OP has some serious unresolved issues surrounding his parents.

Please show me any evidence that children raised by single partents are any worse off than those with two.

reply to post by jedimiller



One of those stars and flags is from me, just so you know...

I haven't read through the responses but I'm pretty sure you've gotten slack about your post, anything like that is bound to get people riled up. But it is still true and needs to be said more often.

I can tell you this much, I'm 36 years old and I don't have any kids yet... The reason why isn't because I don't love kids because I do. But I'll be darned if I'm having a kid with some typical bimbo out here and end up having to visit with my kid on weekends because the skank decided she didn't want to be with me anymore. That's one trap I decided a loooooong time ago that I was not going to get stuck in. "I love you" and "I'll never leave you" roll off most women's tongues like honey trickling down a honeycomb but you can usually believe that crap about as much as you can believe you'll hit the mega lottery this week.

Hey don't get me wrong, I don't hate women. I love women, too darn much if anything. But I'm not one to pretend I don't see what I see... and I haven't survived the life I've had by being an idiot. Most women have EXACTLY the kind of attitude that you described. They won't admit it, they'll whine and moan about it and deny it to the bitter end but that doesn't change a thing.

You hit the nail on the head buddy and I commend anyone like you that has guts and integrity enough to stand out and speak up about things like this.

I would still like to have a family one day, of course I would. But do I really believe I'll ever find ANY woman that I can honestly trust enough to have a kid with and know she won't try to disappear with it and raise it without me at some point??? I'm not holding my breath... And that my friends is why I chose this name for myself.

Peace.

reply to post by Bachelor


The proverbial one rotten apple spoils the whole barrel.
A few bimbos with an attitude make the rest of us look bad.
I actually stayed in a bad marriage 10 years beyond when it was over, because I thought it was better for the kids that we lived together, even though dysfunctional. It was a mistake on my part to do that. When your own children are telling you to kick the jerk out..you have to take action.
Let's put it this way..there are rotten dads and rotten moms and rotten marriages from hell.This could be argued for weeks on a case by case basis alone, and not one of us would be more correct than the other because we are all going on personal experience.
I actually spoke to Jedi in a u2u..which I will not disclose the contents of, but suffice to say this thread has opened his eyes a lot. He realizes he needs to do some stuff in his life. If this thread has done nothing more than inspire him to be a better person...then I applaud his actions.
AD

Originally posted by Bachelor

But I'll be darned if I'm having a kid with some typical bimbo out here and end up having to visit with my kid on weekends because the skank decided she didn't want to be with me anymore. That's one trap I decided a loooooong time ago that I was not going to get stuck in. "I love you" and "I'll never leave you" roll off most women's tongues like honey trickling down a honeycomb but you can usually believe that crap about as much as you can believe you'll hit the mega lottery this week.

Hmmmm, with an attitude like this one, I bet this is the reason for your name. What woman would want a fella who thinks like this?

Men can come up with some pretty good lines too. They like getting the milk for free.

Hey don't get me wrong, I don't hate women. I love women, too darn much if anything.

So, you might be able to settle down with just one to have children with, huh?

You hit the nail on the head buddy and I commend anyone like you that has guts and integrity enough to stand out and speak up about things like this.

Oh Lordy, there are 2 of you out in the world!

reply to post by Enthralled Fan


awww lol... sorry I didn't jump on the jedi-bashing bandwagon with everyone else but don't start flaming and inciting me into an argument; I'm not interested in that. I'm at peace with all of you, I respect your right to have your opinions on this subject even they differ from my own. Reciprocate that respect please... thanks.

reply to post by Bachelor


I certainly do not adhere to any jedi-bashing as you put it.
I think he is one of ATS's more colourful members and I enjoy his posts.

However, I do strongly disagree with him on this topic and I can understand how a lot of single mothers are deeply offended by his generalisations.

Generalisations of this sort serve no positive purpose, however, I also support his right to express his opinion, and your right to agree with him.