The US dollar is DONE!

Does ATS want "globalism" ?

Upon moving on from this thread I stumbled into another thread which was essentially (and oddly) on topic. I suppose my question/s to ATS members might be to the effect of "Has the quality of active threads gone up or down in the course of your collective experience?" and "Have you been a citizen of this establishment long enough to know what I mean in my asking?"

[edit on 19-3-2008 by spectre76]

The word on the street matters and ask them how their lives are whilst they struggle.

Then tell them everything is peachey as Bush has put it and they will soon tell you to get a reality check.

High street banks went with begging bowls to the Bank of England yesterday, seeking more than £23 billion in emergency loans as fears over the global credit crunch deepened.
Now that tells me we are in trouble is there a way out?only time can tell.
The rescue, an attempt to quell the panic, only heightened fears that a threatened US recession would wreak havoc on the global economy and could even bring down a British bank.

Civil disorder hasnt happened yet at least in the states but it will happen soon!
I guess many are glued to the state of the economy so far its a wait and see game.

Judgement day may be upon us all soon!

The American people feel the slowdown and we feel the slowdown.
Some critics have questioned why the government is using taxpayer dollars to bail out Wall Street titans, like Bear Stearns, while thousands of Americans struggle to stave off housing foreclosure and receive nothing.
So is it really fixing the problem?

sub-prime??

money.cnn.com...

if you want my opinion, the "sub-prime" is just the scapegoat...
there's been multi-million dollar purchases of malls, hotels, businesses, ect...all with no money down, shadey financing.....

the economy is falling from the top down.....most of the subprime mess hasn't even hit the fan yet, and the major players are starting to fall, ya, we've created a little debt.....but they've taken that little debt, used it as a commodity to buy and sell and bet on, and used it as collateral to obtain BIG, MASSIVE, debt....

oh, and buy the way....if you are in the gambling mood, and gullible enough to believe that all these "sub-primers" will pay off their credit cards after losing their houses......visa's going public and offering you shares of stock!!!

news.bbc.co.uk...

so, please, do you part, and bail out the credit card companies so our government and the fed don't have to.....

just wondering, how many of yas still think that it's a good idea that we take our social security money out of the state's hands and put it into the hands of these investment firms....
was this pres. bush's attempt to bail these business's out, was the problem known that far back, but they just neglected to tell you?

who doesnt subscribe to the NWO

reply to post by PokeyJoe


I don't know about you guys, but I am so sick and tired of being on here on the ATS pages and hearing about the "NWO". (moderators, I know it sounds harsh, but I'm trying to make a valid point here without trying to offend someone). There is not one shread of definitive truth to the NWO...in theory maybe, and yes I admit more than a few players on the stage are for a global economy, but other than that, there is no NWO. Enough already! Give us definitive proof, or lay off and poor out the cool-aide. We are a long ways from having a one world government.

if there is a NWO, they have lost control!!! it's their members that have lost millions when bear stearns went belly up!! we all didn't quack to the tune they wanted us too, wouldn't give them that social security money, wouldn't listen to the mouthpeices on the tv telling us what stocks to buy, what stocks not to buy....too many of us refused to go hopelessly into debt at their bidding....and now, too many are just saying heck with paying that debt. they've lost it...and many of them will lose their fortunes.

Originally posted by West Coast

Originally posted by Power_Semi
Why would the World be plunged into a "dark age" if the US "dies"?

You are just a large group of consumers. That consumption would be re-routed to China, India, & other expanding nations.

Sorry, but you cannot replace nearly $14 trillion dollars in consumerism overnight.

China, as well as India have a smaller middle class then previously thought, with both Chinese, and Indian GDP PPP being downgraded by 40%. That means that over 300 million Chinese live on less than a dollar a day, while some 700 million in India live on less than a dollar a day. Chinas economy in the adjusted PPP terms stands at about $5.33T, Indias is around $2.34T.

So with IN/CH combined your looking the most at $7-8trillion in PPP (at best). That is nearly half of what the US PPP is. You also have to factor in the loss of that $14T with the loss of the US consumer.

China, as well as India have to have money in order to purchase products. What happens if China, as well as india, lose their biggest costumer (the US)? That puts them out of business, which means the average chinese has been put out of work, and will have less money to spend on foreign products.

It has taken the US well over 100 years to be the consumer (the bread basket of the world) it is today, you cannot expect the same to happen to china, and India, in just a few months, or years, if this hysterical conspiracy has any truth in it...

The US is not the powerhouse it once was.

Sorry.

It has moved beyond being a mere powerhouse, to being a hyperpower. There is no nation that is even close to matching, or catching up to the US in nearly every facet of the game...




[edit on 18-3-2008 by West Coast]

The point that you are failing to grasp is that you are borrowing the money that you then use to consume. Your consumption could quite easily be absorbed by the Chinese themselves, the indians, & other emerging markets.

The Chinese have been devaluing their own currency to support the Dollar, which is why you see such large drops in the estimated value of their market. Every day that Bernanke switches on the printing presses the Chinese economy becomes more valuable when valued in Dollars.

They hold the largest amount of US Debt in the World, they're going to come over there to spend it & buy up every US company in sight, US real estate, etc with it.

I'd just like to make a couple of other points then I'm bowing out of here before it becomes too bitter.

Firstly, no one is rubbing their hands with glee or wishing ill of the US, the facts are that we are in the biggest asset bubble the World has ever seen, we have governments that have borrowed far too much money, & we have to pay up. We'll pay up by letting the countries that hold our debt buy our assets, which are falling in value by the day.

Secondly, don't kid yourselves that "sub prime" effects only a few people or a few companies. The mortgages that were issued were bundled together into securities, originally classed triple A, now reduced to junk bond status. Those mortgage securities were sold to banks, hedge funds, & worryingly to pension funds.

The same thing happened with credit card debt. It's been bundled up & sold on to bigger fools.

So when people can't borrow any more money & they default you get banks going under, hedge funds going under (they go first because they use leveraged products which exaccerbate losses more sharply & they hit problems much, much faster), finance companies going under, credit card companies going under, & pension funds losing 90%+ of their value, if they manage to survive.

So the economy is goosed, your future is gone because your pensions are destroyed, & theres no more money to borrow & no industrial complex to create money.


That is a depression, & it won't just be in the US, the UK, Ireland, Spain, & others will all be walloped right out of the park.

I'm not looking forward to this scenario, I have a young family, but to ignore it is foolish.

Yes, I am confused also, it seems to me, that they are making fun of it because, American's in general refuse to believe that the US dollar can crash. I don't hink anyone anywhere is or will be happy about what is about to transpire, I to believe the US Dollar will be worthless in a short while and therefore I am taking steps now to help myself when the crap hits the fan.

The only people destroying our Dollar is the Federal reserve and the World bankers, they hold all the strings that will ultimately ruin America as we have known for so long, the best thing any American can do right now is buy all the food you can, prepare yourself for disaster, to ignore it or deny that it can happen is very foolish and arrogant, you will be sorry you allowed yourself this denial when looking back. hind sight is 20/20 foresight is often a murky picture but you must be prepared just the same, when this happens it will be every man for himself. not out of greed but necessity.

For all it's worth, that's my 2 cent's worth.

Good luck on your journey

Originally posted by jedimiller
You know what I really think? you guys wish the dollar was worth nothing! is that a way to get back at the united states? to throw it on our face? But hating on the dollar because it comes from america only shows you will do anything to destroy it. Ibet many europeans would cheer if the dollar was done. heck, they will probably have pinata parties and have monthly celebrations. I for one, depend only on coin dollars..and I use them all the time.

reply to post by Rumrunner


America is "Babylon the Great" - I agree 100%.

Article re America as Babylon for bible people

Guys the U.S. Dollar has been in a dive for years - this was always going to happen.

There is a $9trillion debt - including unsecured debts (healthcare, pensions, pharma) it is $50 trillion. the combined value of the worlds stock exchanges is about $42 trillion......you are completely broke.

You sold out your middle class for cheap labour in China and moved what remained into the service industry - then while chasing more profits (greedy bastards) - outsourced this service industry to India.

Your entire war effort is funded by China. You entire debt (the money you spend) is provided by countries your government spends its day abusing and chastising. (Primarily through what are known as Sovereign Funds).

You have nothing to sell, you have no money and what you do own is for sale in American dollars (worth less and less every day).....even if you wanted to, what are you going to sell to the world in order to re-pay this debt ?

Moodies (amongst others) are considering down grading the entire American economy.

This is not new, this was obvious almost three years ago for anyone with an ounce of a brain, people have been pulling out of American Dollars faster than you can say failed state.

For anyone who thinks the U.S. consumer hole can not be plugged by the emerging chinese and Inidan middle class you are seriously deluded. This middle class is what MADE AMERICA, removing it will be what causes your downfall.

How do I feel about this, fine. America, and Americans have been the most condescending pack of arrogant ignoramuses going around, you need to learn the lesson that you are simply one country among all of us, neither better nor worse. You need to learn some humility, you are not the greatest country, you need to learn history, you need to learn how to cooperate, how to be part of a community and that you do not know best, in fact there are probably a hundred coutnries ahead of you in that regard.

You need to learn some humility, so yes, you need to learn this lesson and as painful it might be you need to learn it. No one is scared or worried because we have survived thousands of years without you, the last fifty years of american ascendency have been pretty horrendous to say the least and a return to balance is something we all look forward to. Welcome back to the pack, and say goodbye to your ignorant arrogance.

I am a white, educated, western, democratic citizen - and I speak for the majority of your kind when I say what I have. Wake up.

Originally posted by West Coast

Originally posted by dave420

Nope. The EU moved to the top spot, knocking the US down to 2nd.

Ich speche deutsch.

Germans feel as though the EU is an actual entity, while many in europe, do not share this similar view. Many view the EU as a monstrosity, England in particular.

The EU is made up of 27 nations, so you cant exactly compare 27 INDIVIDUAL nations, to a SINGLE nation. A much better comparison would be the NAFTA nations paired, compared to the EU 27... If that was the case, then NAFTA would be a trillion dollar economy larger then the current EU 27.

Still, if we are to accurately portray the EU as a single entity, compared with America, we should also view performance wise, which one is "better."

The EU economy is 22 years behind the US economy. The EU also experiences slow, protracted growth rates (slower than Americas), which is historically true.

The Human Development Index of the US is higher not only than the aggregate EU, but of ALL EU countries with populations greater than 10 million.

In the scientific field, the US remains far ahead of the EU27, with the US doing far more scientific research than the EU, in both dollars and the number of scientists.

All who are worried about a declining dollar should read this article. Europe is in trouble due to an inability to export. Airbus, etc. are in deep trouble due to an over-priced Euro. Europe is also, currently the largest source for outsourcing jobs.

And Finally, the US is viewed today as a hyperpower ( a step above superpowerdom). Europe is not a superpower, and will never be. The best the EU can strive for being is a model power. Not a Superpower.

[edit on 18-3-2008 by West Coast]

What can you say - ignorant to the point of almost being well - American.

Here is a tip, America is the ONLY western country without universal health care. You economy is so badly damaged that if you were to implement it you would go bankrupt. These kinds of posts are just laughable.

reply to post by dawnstar


Thank you, Thank you, Thank you
I am so tired of hearing or reading from every single media outlet that the economic downfall came from the "subprime disaster".

All good things must come to an end and all empires must eventually fall. However, the dollar is not done. The economy with the exception of the housing market is strong. The truth is, it is an election year and if the liberals can make the public panic and believe that the economy is horrible and it is the republican party's fault, they will vote democrat.

The liberals control the media in the USA. All they need to do is start broadcasting that the economy is horrible and people panic and what they say manifests itself.

Things were much worse when Jimmy Carter was president. Except for the liberals have made it so difficult and expensive for people to have companies in the US. Plus, the liberals have forced us to import more than we export in order to even the playing field.

There are 2 types of liberals. Most are just ignorant and uninformed like sheep. The others, the elite actually appear to be determined to see the USA fall.

It's funny how people in general (beware generalizations, I know) seem to refer to the US or America as if it were a single entity. I see comments regarding what she deserves, or how she fits into ancient prophecies, and of course there's the inevitable schadenfreude associated with America's comeuppance.

The United States are, (not is) separated and remain so because each state can and frequently does have its own agenda in serving their people. The problems regarding currency are federal. No law exists that says we HAVE to participate in the World Monetary System as defined by the IMF or ISS. We are not protected (nor is Europe for that matter) from the fiat currency manipulation that has been taking place for decades.

Commenter's intelligence is evident here so all should be at least familiar with who benefits from whats happening in our 'global' market these days. Perhaps there is a plan to 'encourage' a single monetary system. perhaps the NWO chatter is relevant, but that connection, if it exists, remains hidden.

What isn't hidden is the fact that the potential for the consolidation of control exists and if the world population (you know, the source of all the wealth and work) is not carefully represented we could end up taking a giant step backwards. There are those who act to secure and ensure continuity of control - because they truly believe it is their right. That an intellectual elite in power is superior to self-determination. This is not a hidden agenda, it is quite clearly stated and reiterated frequently.

These are the people behind the entire world business model. These are the very same people who admittedly sought to, and achieved control of the press and media for the purpose of conditioning us to value that which THEY determine is convenient to their ends. This is not a conspiracy - there is no secret about their stated agenda. Currency and its evolution is central to their plan.

Can anyone envision a possible alternative? If currencies rise and fall, and nations merge and battle as businesses do; if people are deprived of goods while they are horded by others, are we not already slaves to the will of the elite? I ask, how could the currency of ANY state be protected from what has occurred? If the answer is nothing - doesn't that mean the system is inadequate from a 'national' perspective. If there is or was something that could have been, or could be, done - why was such an action NOT taken?

That there is a purpose is clear, the goal is not so much so. I suppose things were easier when one gigantic church or state could render such decisions as the 'will of God' or the "will of the people'. But the human condition has changed as the world evolved - now it is not so easy to control something without being detected. Follow the money - who is getting richer as nations get poorer? There you will find the culprit behind the insane financial activities that lead to the weakening of the dollar. (And rest assured, a similar fate will befall all currencies who's strength might threaten that control)

Sorry for the rant. But all this talk of economics seems like window dressing to the real issue. Whether or not a currency fails is NOT up to the people, it's up to the bankers - who's loyalty is to wealth - not nations.

Originally posted by stumason
Of course, we're not immune by any stretch of the imagination, but we're not going to die a death just because the Yanks do (no offence).

I think you'd be surprised by just how much manufacturing is still in the UK. Alot of it is High-tech, or Aerospace, rather than Steel mills and coal mines, but that is still here too. We offloaded the low-tech manufacturing base to India and China, but plenty is still done here, mainly the high end stuff.

If needs be, the UK still has hundreds of years worth of deposits in iron and coal, but it's cheaper to get it abroad. Once THEY run out, or if the prices climb higher, who do you think will be nicely positioned to supply the world with base materials then? I know the US could say the same, but compared to the EU as a whole, they have very little manufacturing capability at all. Anything they do make, such as cars, are almost exclusively sold in the US, so if their consumers fail, so does their industry by default, as no one will buy Chevy cars.

Despite what you might be told by Americans, "Made in USA" is not something that inspires confidence in a product. They are, quite often, inferior (this isn't opinion, but rather a long running situation with American products)

Bottom line, we'll probably see slower economic growth, but all our eggs aren't in the US basket anymore and I think the world economy is resilient enough to not suffer from a US collapse to much, despite what some Americans would say.

Last accounts I had, your cars aren't much better in England. What happened to the mini cooper, range rover, jaguar, and others? What on the planet makes you think that Europes manufacturing base is so much better then here in the US. Last time I checked airbus was looking to outsource alot of their business as to stay in business. Economies go up and they go down, that is what they do. You frankly are acting like all Americans are going to die. You as english are by no means no more righteous then Americans.

reply to post by SailorinAZ


The liberals control the media?????? Which media? FOX? CBS? NBC? MSNBC? Even PBS is top heavy with Republican appointees.

Gimme a break!

Originally posted by dawnstar
...oh, and buy the way....if you are in the gambling mood, and gullible enough to believe that all these "sub-primers" will pay off their credit cards after losing their houses......visa's going public and offering you shares of stock!!!

so, please, do you part, and bail out the credit card companies so our government and the fed don't have to.....

Dude/dudette,

I applaud this awesome post and could not agree more!!

Could I also add that Freddie and Fannie Mac just got the nod to buy up 200 billion 'more' of mortgages? That's 200 billion more of potential collapse/ default burden directly responsible to the tax-payers and off the privates’ books. Lord knows they were already one of the largest holders/buyers of crap rate traunches.

What a blatant scam!! (sold as “good leadership” by Bush-Co and Big Ben) – and all the while the CNBC/idiot box folks are all smiles and Hi-5's!


[edit on 19-3-2008 by scrapple]

Originally posted by dawnstar
if there is a NWO, they have lost control!!! it's their members that have lost millions when bear stearns went belly up!!

Possibly! Yet If Bear Stearns had been allowed to actually go bankrupt - some have stated their books would have been opened, and reported billions in 'executive' bonuses given out just this past January would have been made public.

Maybe ATS researchers looking to solidify/dismiss NWO and banking connections should look to verify/debunk the bonuses story.



[edit on 19-3-2008 by scrapple]

Originally posted by SailorinAZ
Things were much worse when Jimmy Carter was president.

I suggest that you do a little research on a guy named Arthur Burns for historical similarities and potential outcomes to present day interest rate lowering.

Originally posted by greysave
What happened to the mini cooper, range rover, jaguar, and others?

Tata (india) Motors to Buy Jaguar, Land Rover: The official announcement has been delayed so that Ford could tell its plant workers at Jaguar and Land Rover...

blog.wired.com...

I myself am not hoping for any country to crash, burn, or die, but face the realities of its environment and practices.

best,
scrap



[edit on 19-3-2008 by scrapple]