Government Controlling Lives Through School

Is it really fair for the government to dictate what a person must learn, in order to make themselves able to support their lives with money? It is somewhat a conspiracy, for I believe they railroad children into certain job types the country needs, by making certain requirements so stubbornly into the curriculum, like forcing a student to completely specialize in certain areas, regardless of their career path, such as Math.

I understand the need for young children to be sure, but when a person is in grade 11 why are they still FORCING them to take math? What if they want to be an artist, a musician, a counsellor, or any of the other many careers that have nothing to do with math. Is it fair to pull their marks down for the SOLE purpose of oppresing what they wish to be by forcing them into a subject they have no wish to specialize in (Taking it three years in a row), just in order to RAILROARD students into jobs the economy requires, such as engineers?

As I said young students this is acceptable, but I think AT LEAST by grade 11 this trash should stop, students should have free will when they are that old. It is difficult for people to pursue careers they wish, that do not fit under the curriculum. Enough people want to go into math careers, it is not necessary to push more in. Just unfair to those who do not wish to.

A person should be required to learn some basic skills, but when it comes down to later grades, and specialization for future careers for the rest of their LIVES, students should have the right to choose what they want to be, without interference.

What are you thoughts on this?

[Edited on 21-2-2004 by QuestForSafety]

Is it really fair for the government to dictate what a person must learn, in order to make themselves able to support their lives with money? It is somewhat a conspiracy, for I believe they railroad children into certain job types the country needs, by making certain requirements so stubbornly into the curriculum, like forcing a student to completely specialize in certain areas, regardless of their career path, such as Math.

The government does not railroad you into any job, business creates jobs and they hire people that are qualfied for the job.

They put a lot of time into math because most good jobs require at least some math. (mine requires a lot)

My point though is, whether most 'good jobs' require math or not, what if a person wants to do something else? Why should they be specializing in the same courses a future accountant is taking, when they want to be something else?

It IS the government that makes the decision to force this specialization. Whether business creates these jobs in mass initially is irrelivent, the government still made the calculated decision to do the railroading.

[Edited on 21-2-2004 by QuestForSafety]

I was utter bollix at maths, but it didn't stop me getting into a computing career. Since leaving school, I have been a Mainfram Operator, Applications programmer, Systems Programmer, Operations Analyst and Engineer. Neither job required higher than average maths skills.

Not only is this a problem, but even teachers I know who are History teachers, English teachers, ect, if asked for math help they wave their hands and back away. So I guess forcing them to WASTE all those years specializing in math only caused them to be unable to further develop the skills they wanted for their particular choice of study. Perhaps they could be even better teachers in English, History, ect, if they had been able to focus on more of those courses, instead of wasting time with something they will only forget later on, that has nothing to do with their career.

lets stay off math, thats not the point.

through school, certification/licesensing the gov does control our lives. THough these processes are good for determinging quality of certain professions, they should not be made mandatory to practice them.

i am 16 and in my last year of school. very soon i will be taking my GCSE's and of course i will be taking a compulsary exam in maths. I understand what you mean about this, most of the things we are being tested on in maths are things i will never ever need in the future, things like: algebra, contructing circles with stupid pointy compasses, being able to calculate how big an angle is in a triangle, pi (i think thats self explanatory) and other useless tasks which are confusing and unneccessary to many pupils. Personally i hate maths, but it is important for most jobs. I just think that the government should change the laws so that at a certain age, maths is optional.

And while we're on the subject. I think that schools are just one big conspiracy. For example: when someone in my school has a headache or some other illness, they are sent off to the 'medical room' where they are taken to another little room that stores a ridiculous amount of 'pain killers.' (or 'brain' killers?!?!) Then when the student returns back to class, they always seem more willling to learn and quieter.....hmmm....could just be me acting all paranoid again, but doesnt that seem a little odd to you?

I was only using math as an example, since it is the main focus of unecessary, forced specialization.

The point of course is, the government railroads people into jobs they do not want, just because they think those jobs are the most available. I guess they think that capable students are not able to make their own decisions.

I am glad you also think they should not be mandatory, for it is just a form of savage oppresion towards the people. Freedom to attempt to strive to become anything should be realized, not having to jump over unecessary obstacles, which just raise drop out rates (According to some survey's over 70% of polled drop outs left school because they thought they would never get a diploma ONLY due to the math requirements it has. Most of them had wanted to pursue other careers at university/college, but will not be forced into economic desparity because of this foolish mandate.)

A guidance teacher I was talking to told me of the survery, since she agrees it should not be a forced requirement to obtain something so necessary for today's world: an education.

Yes that is my point, just like any optional other credit math should be optional as well, those who WANT math careers, can sign up for math, it is not like it prevents people from taking it.

[Edited on 21-2-2004 by QuestForSafety]

The point of course is, the government railroads people into jobs they do not want, just because they think those jobs are the most available. I guess they think that capable students are not able to make their own decisions.

When has the government forced someone to take a certain job?

Originally posted by moonfairysoul
And while we're on the subject. I think that schools are just one big conspiracy. For example: when someone in my school has a headache or some other illness, they are sent off to the 'medical room' where they are taken to another little room that stores a ridiculous amount of 'pain killers.' (or 'brain' killers?!?!) Then when the student returns back to class, they always seem more willling to learn and quieter.....hmmm....could just be me acting all paranoid again, but doesnt that seem a little odd to you?

wow. we are definitely not talking about the schools I went to, then. when I was 11 (sixth grade for us US folk), I got hit in the nose by a basketball. (ow) I went to the office, the lady looked at my nose and my messed up glasses, gave me a tissue and sent me back to gym class. my mom was not thrilled when I wandered home with blood all over my shirt and a bruised face.

anyway, are we talking specifically about schools in the US or the UK? I've been told that in the UK school system, students are required to choose a career path much earlier than in the US. (really, in the US, you choose college prep or easy stuff for high school. that's it.) it sucks that you have to learn math in 11th grade if you're sure you're going to be a poet...but who's sure of anything at 16 or 17? if our poet changes his mind and decides to become an engineer, he's got a lot of catching up to do when college comes around.

How are schools forcing students into specific careers? I learned no job skills whatsoever in high school, and the only classes that are required are basic subjects that everyone should know. People should learn at least some math skills, language skills, and history. Learning geometry or proper use of the english language has nothing to do with the government pushing people into jobs they don't want.

Trade schools and colleges prepare students for a career. And last time I checked, the government isn't forcing anyone into college.

If a person with effort cannot hack the basic requirements of elementary school then they deserve failure. Once one hits secondary school then they have more choices to make. It is imperative for a person to continue to challenge themselves if they ever wish to be all they can be. People that look for the easy way out often find it and later learn to regret it.

why do they still force certain subjects? because in the college years alone you could change your major a million times. say they didnt force math, you go to college planning to get an english degree and end up hating it so for some reason switch to engineering like your dad, but you dont have math credits, so you suck.

basically they are just trying to prepare you

i have no problem with them doing that

but i do have a problem with the fact that the only way to succeed in the society they are preparing us for is to either
a. have really good grades
b. be good at running into people at running speed while wearing plastic coverings (aka football)

why is it that you can get into college for football with really crappy grades but you cant get into artschool with really crappy grades?

If you are just going to ask questions about things that are answered then just go back and read first. I explained how the schools are railroading people to certain careers, by forcing them to take certain subjects they do not want, at the very LEAST this makes choosing the career they want unecessarily difficult, and sometimes even ruins their dreams all together. Whether by taking too much time on Required math and such, or by lowering their marks, by forcing them into things that are Not their specialty, thereby removing their chances at seeking higher education.

Amuk: Railroad is to direct someone to a path, it does not mean force necessarily, but they are forcing them onto a path, which leads only to careers in math. Since they were too busy taking math, and science, they were maybe unable to get that optional credit in law, and as such can no longer study law in university. Instead they may be stuck with becoming an accountant or Engineer,since they already have been forced to take the required credits for those courses.

[Edited on 22-2-2004 by QuestForSafety]

[Edited on 22-2-2004 by QuestForSafety]

No one forces you to take math. Its as simple as this, either you take the math that colleges want or you dont and you end up working some minnimum wage job that doesnt allow you to save up enough scratch to buy the computer your using to post this crap. Course requirements are there to make you a more rounded individual and to make you contribute just a little more to society. I personally have a deep interest in history and I took AP US History, AP European, AP Psych, and AP Government in school and at the same time I took AP Statistics, not cause I liked math but I understood the value of the class.

agent-
very true...quest, you need to quit complaining, you do realize that somebody "railroading" you or your mommy and daddy is the only reason youre sitting at a computer posting this, instead of actually working to survive?

i see your argument, and id agree with it wholeheartedly...if we were talking about it on the street while im trying to sell one line and 60 second novels and youre working your ass off for something else....but seeing how we're both spoiled and sitting on computers, it doesnt have too much merit

Originally posted by Scat
agent-
very true...quest, you need to quit complaining, you do realize that somebody "railroading" you or your mommy and daddy is the only reason youre sitting at a computer posting this, instead of actually working to survive?

i see your argument, and id agree with it wholeheartedly...if we were talking about it on the street while im trying to sell one line and 60 second novels and youre working your ass off for something else....but seeing how we're both spoiled and sitting on computers, it doesnt have too much merit

I meant to tell you that the 60 second novel idea was creative earlier, slipped my mind while I was posting my argument here.

One of the very first things I learned in college Sociology was that public middle and high schools are designed with education a distant second in priority to indoctrination. Students are 'taught' from day one to obey authority, and how to recognize and merge themselves into the various pecking orders that form amongst their own number; negative consequences, whether official (detention or suspension, or just a firm reprimand from a teacher) or unofficial (a nice beating-up) await anyone who would disrupt this learning.

If I have kids, the poor brats are going to private school... damn it, now I have to get a job.

it's simple. Don't go, or don't send your kids, to a school run by the government

there are other alternatives out there

All education is social engineering. If you teach your kids to hate and kill, then you get the society you make, - and there are plenty of them around at the moment.

I think that you can definitly say that education is control, "Give me the child of today adn I will give you the man of tomorrow" I think Hitler said that (Although Socrates may have said it first)

The question is .. is the engineering you see creating the sort of society you want? You CANNOT take it out only modify it.

Originally posted by NuTroll
lets stay off math, thats not the point.

through school, certification/licesensing the gov does control our lives. THough these processes are good for determinging quality of certain professions, they should not be made mandatory to practice them.