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The God Makers - Mormon Conspiracy

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posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:59 PM
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Well, your opinion is your own, but, Joseph Smith is 150 years or so, dead. I can't help but wonder if, alive and in today's LDS, he might just say something completely different.
The Church has had time since to mull over and interpret things that Joseph Smith said and wrote. It's a young religion but has, I'm sure, refined it's teachings.

Meh, I'm not Morman. I have a very close buddy who's Morman, and my being very Deist/Agnostic has resulted in hours and hours of conversations and I dig his interpretation.

I'm just pointing out that there are sites on the internet that can compile all of the most negative things they can, and they present it in their own spin, and the motivation they are inspiring is distrust and hate, not understanding.

I'd rather try to understand myself.

In My Opinion, of course.

Cuhail




posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 12:49 AM
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Wow there is another thread exposing Joe Smith as a fraud based on DNA evidence.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 09:58 AM
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I just moved from Utah after living there for 5 years or so. On the surface everything looks normal, but it is anything but. I dont want to sit here and go over all the little details, but here are a few. Every "prophet" or president elected to the church makes his own doctorine, and the people have to follow it. The most recent was Gordon Hinckley, who just recently died.

There is one thing I would like to bring to peoples attention. The church is very anti homosexual. It got out somehow, not the news, because it is owned by the church there, that if they found out that someone was gay they sent them down to BYU in Provo, and gave them shock treatment until they werent gay anymore. This probably still happens...



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 12:33 PM
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Didn't watch the video, but imo mormonism is all about sex


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mod Note: One line responses are discouraged;

See here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 17-3-2008 by NGC2736]



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


Well,i'm a Mormon and i've never heard that and i study all the good and the bad that exists in my faith!!

The belief is that the person you marry is the person you will spend eternity with.Thats one man one woman.LDS scriptures state that polygamy is forbidden.

Yes,there was a time when some Mormon's practiced this,(its stupid to deny it) but this is no longer so with Latter Day Saints.


There are many verses in the Bible that indicate that we are to become like Jesus if we have faith.I can add quotes for those that are interested.






They also believe in blood atonement. Meaning that Jesus sacrifice on the cross wasn't enough to cover some sins (like marrying a negro) so it is up to the church to kill that member thus atoning for his sin and saving him from hell.


Uh,what

In the past this church may have had shameful views on race but this is no longer the case with Latter Day Saints.
Plus,you are wrong on what the atonement means to us.


Atonement of Jesus Christ.
As used in the scriptures,to atone is to suffer the penalty for sins,thereby removing the effects of sin from the repentant sinner and allowing him or her to be reconciled to God.Jesus Christ was the only one capable of carrying out the Atonement for all mankind.Because of His Atonement,all people will be resurrected,and those who obey His gospel will receive the gift of eternal life with God.







But they are not Christians. I hate to tell you those are facts.Mormonism directly contradicts the Bible.


A Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Jesus.We believe in the trinity of the Father,Son & Holy Ghost;but they are all seperate beings.
The idea of the 3 in 1 trinity did not appear until Rome got involved,it is there invention.Again,i can give Bible quotes for those interested.







Now the real Bible


I suppose that means like many you believe the Book of Mormon to be our Bible.Well,it isn't.It is another testament to Jesus Christ.We follow the Bible,we honor Joseph Smith but he is not our God.

[edit on 17-3-2008 by jakyll]



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by idle_rocker
 





Do the Mormons believe they are the only ones that will enter Heaven? I think I have heard that before, but I would like someone like yourself to make that sure for me.


We believe that all will be ressurected,the good and the bad.
The good will be welcomed in Heaven the bad will be given a chance to convert and if they don't they will spend eternity on earth away from the grace of God.



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 



The book Gospel Principles is used by the LDS church to train new converts.


Its not a training manual and it isn't just for new converts.



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by PokeyJoe
 





There is one thing I would like to bring to peoples attention. The church is very anti homosexual. It got out somehow, not the news, because it is owned by the church there, that if they found out that someone was gay they sent them down to BYU in Provo, and gave them shock treatment until they werent gay anymore. This probably still happens...



Yep,this happened and it was the church's attitude.But,like with the race issue,the faith has become more enlightened.Homosexuals are not treated as they once were,it is no longer seen as a sin,its just the homosexual act that is the sin.All homosexuals are treated with love and respect,i should know,i'm a lesbian,i'm a Mormon and i'm happy!



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


Well,i'm a Mormon and i've never heard that and i study all the good and the bad that exists in my faith!!

The belief is that the person you marry is the person you will spend eternity with.Thats one man one woman.LDS scriptures state that polygamy is forbidden.


It's forbidden because the United States Government took your "church" to court. Brigham Young and Joesph Smith certainly believed in it. You guys change the rules as you go along...




There are many verses in the Bible that indicate that we are to become like Jesus if we have faith.I can add quotes for those that are interested.


But that's a big stretch from being God of your own little world...
The whole story of the American Indians being the lost tribe of Israel that brought the book of Mormon is not true, Check the thread... there's no Jewish DNA present in the American Indian genome. Joesph Smith made it up.
www.abovetopsecret.com...



Uh,what

In the past this church may have had shameful views on race but this is no longer the case with Latter Day Saints.
Plus,you are wrong on what the atonement means to us.


I'm sure blood atonement has been modified by further prophetic revelation as well.


Properly called individual blood atonement, according to this doctrine there are certain sins which place the sinner beyond the forgiving power of the blood of Christ. The only way the sinner can achieve forgiveness is to have his or her own blood shed.
source





But they are not Christians. I hate to tell you those are facts.Mormonism directly contradicts the Bible.





A Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Jesus.We believe in the trinity of the Father,Son & Holy Ghost;but they are all seperate beings.
The idea of the 3 in 1 trinity did not appear until Rome got involved,it is there invention.Again,i can give Bible quotes for those interested.

I suppose that means like many you believe the Book of Mormon to be our Bible.Well,it isn't.It is another testament to Jesus Christ.We follow the Bible,we honor Joseph Smith but he is not our God.


You can not be a Christian and believe the Book of Mormon at the same time they are mutually exclusive. The Bible warns us against false prophets claiming a further revelation.

"For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him]...13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds." (2 Corinthians 11:4 & 13-15 KJV)



[edit on 3/17/2008 by Bigwhammy]



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 01:34 PM
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The one item that clinches it as a cult---for me anyway--- is the doctrine of the "burned peoples"
This is original--translated by Smith as he stared into his hat at the golden tablets.

How any faith can claim god himself cursed a population, and "burned them" to a darker skin color, thus comdeming them and their offspring for all time is beyond me.

That this original doctrine (among many, many others) was changed by later "prophets" indicates to me the god is either capricious, or the original founder was a liar-----or that the current LDS church are heritics, refusing to follow gods plan to the letter and changing it to suit their wants and needs.
These doctrines were "set in stone" (well, gold actually), and like the 10 commandments of the jewish faith, meant to stay that way forever. (sorry christians--that means you too)

Being these doctrines are in fairly modern english, and not translated from language to language over many centuries disavows any attempt at claiming "errors in interpretation" that christians and jews attempt.

I would ask mormons how any mere mortal man can claim authority to change the words and plans of god and his angels only in times of stress and attack on the church to fit the moral or political climate of the day.

The ORIGINAL book of mormon, and every following revision, as well as doctrines and precepts of all the prophets and elders is available on the 'net, though a large amount of the paper copies have been collected or destroyed over the years.
This puts the book of mormon in a unique positition in comparison to almost every other holy book, whose original has long ago disapeared in the sands of time.


Don't take my words as fact---deny ignorance and do the work yourself, come to your own conclusion by looking at the facts in black and white.
This is my conclusion by doing so, but don't believe me, do it yourself.



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 





It's forbidden because the United States Government took your "church" to court. Brigham Young and Joesph Smith certainly believed in it. You guys change the rules as you go along...


Very true.
But we don't change rules,we become more enlightened.Take racism & homosexuality which i mentioned earlier,my church understands that sometimes religious doctrine shouldn't stand in the way of human rights & human development.





But that's a big stretch from being God of your own little world...
The whole story of the American Indians being the lost tribe of Israel that brought the book of Mormon is not true, Check the thread... there's no Jewish DNA present in the American Indian genome. Joesph Smith made it up.


There is no law or rule that says we will have our own worlds,but its available.And if you believe Jesus is God or if you believe Jesus is a God then its not that big a stretch.
As for the DNA tests,i have no opinion as i don't know who has done these tests or what their motives are.





I'm sure blood atonement has been modified by further prophetic revelation as well.


B.Young is not one of my fave people,he said and did a lot i don't agree with and many other Mormon's feel the same way.We believe in 2 unforgivable sins;murder & denying the Holy Ghost.






You can not be a Christian and believe the Book of Mormon at the same time they are mutually exclusive. The Bible warns us against false prophets claiming a further revelation.



Of course you can!!
The Bible also tells us,
Matthew 23:34

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:


Jesus tells us he will send more prophets.
In the LDS church a prophet is anyone who has a testimony of Jesus Christ by the Holy Ghost as quoted in Revelation 19:10,

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 02:23 PM
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Never mind. This sort of sick attack is not even worth commenting on. Liars make movies and fools believe them.

[edit on 3/17/2008 by Blaine91555]



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


I don't think the Book of Mormon is compatible with the Bible.

The Bible tells us how the name Christian came to be... Notice it says "first"

Acts 11:26 "And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."

Book of Mormon claims people were known as Christians as early as 73 B.C.

Alma 46:15 "...yea, all those who were true believes in Christ took upon them, gladly, the name of Christ, or Christians as they were called, because of their belief in Christ who should come."

You can't have both- one is wrong - which way are you going to choose Apostle Paul or Joesph Smith.

What do you think about the thread showing the DNA evidence.?



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 02:33 PM
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I have always loved how a thread that wants to bash another religion ALWAYS gets its material from anti-whatever-religion sites. It's amazing.

To get it in the open right off the bat...
I am a member of the Chuch of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Bigwhammy: It disappoints me that a person who has as much experience on ATS would look to an "anti" site for your information. "The Godmakers" was made a LONG time ago by people who were VERY disgruntal. It is propbably the single most anti piece of nonsense out there. We don't teach our children spells. Maybe try looking at the church's doctrine before looking at the next "anti" site talking point. You keep bringing up this DNA research. Once again if you looked at the church's doctrine instead of the anti talking point you would see that there wouldn't be ANY Jewish in the Native Americans. Seeing as how they come from a COMPLETELY different tribe.

Everybody: Shall we do some more anti site talking points?

You are correct. Black people were not allowed to have the priesthood at first. Why? Who knows why? In the new testament why was in forbidden to preach the gosple to the gentiles? Who knows why? God knows why. He was the one who made those deceisions. Ask Him.

Polygamy. Here is a question... Why doesn't anybody rag on the Jewish kings in the bible about this subject? King David... Solomon... all of the kings to my knowledge had many wives AND concubines. So somebody explaine to me why a group that did it for hundreds of years dosen't get trashed but the group that did it for a few decades does?

Becoming Gods. Yes, we believe that we, as in EVERYBODY, has the potential to become like God. Not to become God, but to become LIKE Him. Why is this a bad thing? Why is it wrong to think that we could reach that level of enlightenment and knowledge? Am I wrong to say that everyone on ATS believes this to some point. Maybe not in a religious way, but in someway, everybody here believes that knowledge is power, and that it is only a matter of time before we will be able to do ALL things. If this idea offends someone... I don't know what to tell you.

I have to go for now but I will be back.



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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reply to post by -Reason-
 


Sorry that it is offensive to you. I didn't get it form an anti Mormon site, I got it from google video. But I believe it is the truth.

I know there are some very nice people who are Mormons, many put regular Christians to shame in terms of service and morality even. But that doesn't change the fact that Joesph Smith was a con man. The Bible is explicit in warning about further revelations.

I believe that's part 2 of the documentary. Maybe you should watch it and address the claims of the ex Mormons. Well too late, one woman was shot dead for their testimony in the movie. Seriously.

On the polygamy thing. David and Solomon were wrong. God punished them for it as well. David had the whole mess with Bathsheba, and Solomon died worshiping demons and foreign gods because of his wives.
Here's an Old testament warning against polygamy.
17"He shall not multiply wives for himself, or else his heart will turn away; nor shall he greatly increase silver and gold for himself.(Deut 17:17)

On the DNA thing, maybe you need to examine that thread. If what you claim is true then why are Mormons funding all the DNA research on the American Indians?




Mormonism is not Christianity. I will stand by that all day and back it up with scriptures.








[edit on 3/17/2008 by Bigwhammy]

[edit on 3/17/2008 by Bigwhammy]

[edit on 3/17/2008 by Bigwhammy]



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Mormonism is not Christianity. I will stand by that all day and back it up with scriptures.


Most of the so called information in your original post is exaggerated, distorted or just plain false. There are hundreds of sites on the internet that post nothing but hateful lies and distortions about the Mormon Church. If you are actually interested in the real story I suggest you look at the official site, www.lds.org.

It is also rather presumptuous of you to appoint yourself the arbiter of who is a Christian and who is not. I would think that Christ Himself would be the judge of that. I am a Mormon and I believe in Christ will all of my heart. I try to be like Him and live a life of service to those around me. The most fundamental message of accepted Christian doctrine is that Christ’s grace is sufficient for ALL. As a Mormon am I somehow not entitled to the grace of Christ that is offered to ALL?

You apparently judge me, a Mormon, to be excluded from the grace of Christ. You quote verses from the Bible to validate YOUR judgment. But what did Christ teach about judging others? Would you cast the proverbial fist stone at me if I were a thief or an adulterer? If you found me beaten and bleeding by the side of the road to Jericho would you pass by on the other side as did the priest and the Levite? I think not. Why then do you so easily cast the first stone at me knowing absolutely nothing about me other than I am a Mormon?



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by itguysrule
 


I haven't attacked anyone personally other than Joesph Smith and Mr Young. I am attacking the doctrine.
Actually the apostle Paul is doing the condemning:
As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!(Gal 1:9)
I surely do not claim personal perfection but we are called to make Judgments. Especially on false doctrine. Mormonism is cult just like Scientology. Just a hundred years older. I put them in equal standing.

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,(2 Tim 3:16)

Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.(2Tim 4:2)

So watch yourselves. "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.(luke 17:3)



[edit on 3/17/2008 by Bigwhammy]



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by Bigwhammy
I haven't attacked anyone personally other than Joesph Smith and Mr Young. I am attacking the doctrine.


You accuse Mormons of all kinds of crimes up to and including murder. You say I am a member of an evil cult. You don't even try to answer my questions. Then you get all righteous claim you are only attacking the doctrine - not anyone personally.

Sorry, but that is a tired old line that doesn't work. When you attack my beliefs you attack me personally - that's just the way it is. You go ahead and keep your smug, false sense of righteousness. Go ahead and use your canned list of anti-Mormon talking points on whoever will listen. Your interpretation of the Bible is just that - YOUR interpretation.

Enjoy it and have a happy life.



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by itguysrule

You accuse Mormons of all kinds of crimes up to and including murder. You say I am a member of an evil cult. You don't even try to answer my questions. Then you get all righteous claim you are only attacking the doctrine - not anyone personally.


The United States government took the Mormon church to court for crimes
I said the ex Mormon woman in the film was shot , I didn't say who did it. She make the claims of crimes not I...



Sorry, but that is a tired old line that doesn't work. When you attack my beliefs you attack me personally - that's just the way it is. You go ahead and keep your smug, false sense of righteousness. Go ahead and use your canned list of anti-Mormon talking points on whoever will listen. Your interpretation of the Bible is just that - YOUR interpretation.e.


It is not interpretation.

I can show where the Book of Mormon contradicts the bible repeatedly. No interpretation necessary. How about the fact that the Bible prophesied that Jesus would be born in Bethlehem.

Micah 5:2 "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

But your "further revelation" says he would be born at Jerusalem.

Alma 7: 10 "And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin..."


That is not my interpretations that is evidence of PURE FRAUD by Joesph Smith




How do you reconcile that?



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by -Reason-
 


Everybody???? Or just mormons who have gone through the secret rites, know the secret signs that are mimics of masonic signs, and only wives who have been sealed in the temple in another secret rite that even the mothers of the wives who are not mormon are not allowed to be a part of.

Tell me, does your temple still use actors for the parts of lucifer and the protestant minister, or have you graduated to modern audio/visual aids?

Calling the kettle black it seems to me, when even your secret sacred rites teach that the protestants are controlled by satan.



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