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Pentagon DNA Evidence....Is it Possible?

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posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

2. No not the only way, but the correct way.


So the govt officials and DNA experts lied when they stated this?

www.dcmilitary.com...

What some experts have called "the most comprehensive forensic investigation in U.S. history" ended Nov. 16 with the identification of 184 of the 189 who died in the terrorist attack on the Pentagon.
A multidisciplinary team of more than 50 forensic specialists, scientists, and support personnel from the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, with headquarters at Walter Reed, played a major role in Operation Noble Eagle investigations, officials said.

Many of the casualties were badly burned and difficult to identify, an official said. Of the 189 killed, 125 worked at the Pentagon and 64 were passengers on American Airlines Flight 77. Only one of those who died made it to the hospital. The rest were killed on site, and for some, only pieces of tissue could be found.




posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by Disclosed
Of the 189 killed, 125 worked at the Pentagon and 64 were passengers on American Airlines Flight 77. Only one of those who died made it to the hospital. The rest were killed on site, and for some, only pieces of tissue could be found.


Well first off i am asking how the DNA testing was done (properly) when they did not have the new testing untill 2002?

Also there is no evidence of the bodies from the planes being in the buildings.



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Well first off i am asking how the DNA testing was done (properly) when they did not have the new testing untill 2002?


If you bothered to view the link I posted, it answers your questions.


Teams of forensic scientists, under the direction of Demris Lee, technical leader of the Nuclear DNA Section, took over the difficult chore of generating a DNA profile of the victims. Their work included not only the Pentagon crash victims, but the victims of the Somerset County crash as well. Every one of the organization's 102 DNA analysts, sample processors, logistics staff, and administrative personnel were involved -- from collecting, tracking, analyzing DNA samples, and gathering and logging DNA reference material to preparing DNA reports. For 18 days following the terrorist attacks, AFDIL employees worked on 12-hour shifts, seven days a week to meet the mission requirements.



[edit on 20-3-2008 by Disclosed]



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by Disclosed
If you bothered to view the link I posted, it answers your questions.


No, it does not answer how they properly tested the DNA without the new testing.



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by ULTIMA1
 


If you bothered to view the link I posted, it answers your questions.


Teams of forensic scientists, under the direction of Demris Lee, technical leader of the Nuclear DNA Section, took over the difficult chore of generating a DNA profile of the victims. Their work included not only the Pentagon crash victims, but the victims of the Somerset County crash as well. Every one of the organization's 102 DNA analysts, sample processors, logistics staff, and administrative personnel were involved -- from collecting, tracking, analyzing DNA samples, and gathering and logging DNA reference material to preparing DNA reports. For 18 days following the terrorist attacks, AFDIL employees worked on 12-hour shifts, seven days a week to meet the mission requirements.



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by Disclosed
If you bothered to view the link I posted, it answers your questions.


If you bothered to read this link you wold see the new testing was not completed untill 2002, after thebodies were identified.


“Homeland Security”

June 10, 2002

To help identify victims of the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks, the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology used NIST measurements to test new DNA analysis techniques to identify attack victims that would not otherwise have been identified due to small sample size.



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 01:48 PM
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So the govt officials and DNA experts lied when they stated this?

www.dcmilitary.com...

What some experts have called "the most comprehensive forensic investigation in U.S. history" ended Nov. 16 with the identification of 184 of the 189 who died in the terrorist attack on the Pentagon.
A multidisciplinary team of more than 50 forensic specialists, scientists, and support personnel from the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, with headquarters at Walter Reed, played a major role in Operation Noble Eagle investigations, officials said.

Many of the casualties were badly burned and difficult to identify, an official said. Of the 189 killed, 125 worked at the Pentagon and 64 were passengers on American Airlines Flight 77. Only one of those who died made it to the hospital. The rest were killed on site, and for some, only pieces of tissue could be found.


victim locations in the Pentagon, courtesy of CaptainObvious:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 20-3-2008 by Disclosed]



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by Disclosed
However, I'm going by the data released, and information provided by the testing facilities/employees/etc.


Ok. You just agreed with me that it wouldn't be hard to plant this DNA evidence. But, then you state you are going by the information provided by the testing facility?

What if the DNA was planted?


Just overall - by some peoples here interpretation of how evidence should work. It would be almost impossible to get any conviction in court. Imagine this exchange:

DA: So you say that you have DNA from the victoms of this arson fire, Joe 1, Joe 2, and Joe 3.
Police Forensic Guy: Yes
DA: Can you prove it was actually from these three people?
PFG: I collected the samples and ran tests on them and they matched.
DA: Could the DNA have been planted?
PFG: I aarived almost immediatly after the fire, and collected them myself.
DA: Could they have been plated before you got there?
PFG: No
DA: But it is indeed possible for someone to plant evidence - that has happened before in the history of the world right?
PFG: Well - i supp....
DA: Thanks. And can you prove that you are telling the truth?
PFG: Well - there are documents showing the ownership of the evidence from the crime scene on.
DA: But those could be forged right?
PFG: Well - anything can be, but there are security steps in place to prev....
DA: Thanks - and can you prove there even was a fire?
PFG: Its not my job to prove there was a fire- just to identify the remains
DA: So you can't? Thanks again.
DA: And oh by the way - I found a guy who saw this happen 7 years ago, who says somebody who sorta looked like the suspect, took left at the stoplight, not a right. Never heard from him before, no camera, he just came out of the woodwork and told me this. This clearly discounts every piece of evidence you could possibly have. Thanks so much. Have a nice day

I don't see how anyone could ever be expected to prove anything...



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by Disclosed
victim locations in the Pentagon, courtesy of CaptainObvious:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


What official report did the locations for the Flight 77 passengers come from ?

[edit on 20-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by Disclosed
victim locations in the Pentagon, courtesy of CaptainObvious:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


What official report did the locations for the Flight 77 passengers ceom from ?


You'll have to ask CaptainObvious...it is from his post on this thread.

You didnt answer my question though....do you think the govt officials and DNA experts lief when they stated 184 of 189 bodies were identified by Nov 16th, 2001?

Its a simple yes or no question....yes they lied or no they did not.

Do you have evidence that not one single body was identified before 2002?



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by megaman1234
Just overall - by some peoples here interpretation of how evidence should work. It would be almost impossible to get any conviction in court.


Problem is that nothing that has been posted by the people that believe the official story would hold up in court as evidence or could be immediately proven wrong.


Originally posted by Disclosed
You didnt answer my question though....do you think the govt officials and DNA experts lief when they stated 184 of 189 bodies were identified by Nov 16th, 2001?


Its not the point if the lied or not. The point is how could they properly identify the bodies without the new DNA testing for a official, criminal investigation?


[edit on 20-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by megaman1234
 



Nice. NOT.


First, you are assuming that the DNA testers were the ones handling and picking up the DNA evidence. If you can show me that this is the case, I'll shut up about it.

But, as far as I'm aware, there were multiple people collecting the DNA evidence.

I'm just saying that it is possible to contaminate this evidence. Unless there is a clear chain of custody established, then there is no way of knowing for sure.

Or do you guys trust Dr. Jone's work with the WTC steel? Isn't your argument that this steel could have been contaminated? Or there is no chain of custody established? So it can't be used as evidence?

Boy, I love using debunker arguments to debunk the debunkers.



Edit: I just realized I was saying "chain of command" instead of "chain of custody" throughout this thread. Doh.

But, that's the difference between me and a few posters here. I can admit when I'm mistaken.

[edit on 3/20/2008 by Griff]



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by Griff
But, as far as I'm aware, there were multiple people collecting the DNA evidence.


Did you know FBI agents got into trouble for picking up momentos from the crime scenes?



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Did you know FBI agents got into trouble for picking up momentos from the crime scenes?


No. But I did know that Rummy has a piece of the plane on his desk. Sick if you ask me.



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Its not the point if the lied or not. The point is how could they properly identify the bodies without the new DNA testing for a official, criminal investigation?


But they explain in great detail how they identified the bodies.

Are you saying every single victim in the Pentagon was so incinerated, that the only identification method would be the new DNA test? Not dental, or any other means?

Tell me this....what reason would they have to lie about when they identified the bodies there? They admit not being able to identify many remains at the WTC site...why lie about the Pentagon?



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by Disclosed
But they explain in great detail how they identified the bodies.


But did they identify the bodies well enough for a criminal investigation?

I mean they cannot even present evidence that the bodies from the planes were in the buildings.





[edit on 20-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by Disclosed
But they explain in great detail how they identified the bodies.


But did they identify the bodies well enough for a criminal investigation?


The answers you seek are provided in the links I posted, plus the links by the OP.

I'm curious why you think the govt and DNA experts lied when they reported 184 of 189 victims identified by Nov 16th 2001. What reason would they have to lie?



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by Disclosed I'm curious why you think the govt and DNA experts lied when they reported 184 of 189 victims identified by Nov 16th 2001. What reason would they have to lie?


I am not saying they lied. I am saying they did not have the proper testing to do the test and have not proven the bodies from the planes were even in the buildings.



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1
I am not saying they lied. I am saying they did not have the proper testing to do the test and have not proven the bodies from the planes were even in the buildings.


Why didnt they do the proper testing? All other methods of DNA testing were invalid for 100% of the victims? What evidence do you have that say 100% of the Pentagon victims required the new DNA test? No other methods were available?

When they held the press conference, and released information about 184 of 189 victims were identified, they were lying?

That is exactly what you are saying....

[edit on 20-3-2008 by Disclosed]



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by Disclosed
Why didnt they do the proper testing?


You will have to ask the people doing the crime scene investigation. (FBI and NTSB)



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