Pentagon DNA Evidence....Is it Possible?

Originally posted by Disclosed
Actually it wouldnt be hard at all. That would be under the assumption that some party (govt, illuminati, etc) killed off the victims, gathered their DNA and provided that to the labs for testing.

As stated there is no evidence that the bodies form the planes were in the buildings.

Originally posted by Disclosed
However, I'm going by the data released, and information provided by the testing facilities/employees/etc.

Ok. You just agreed with me that it wouldn't be hard to plant this DNA evidence. But, then you state you are going by the information provided by the testing facility?

What if the DNA was planted?

Originally posted by Disclosed
So, are you saying the govt and officials lied when they reported 184 of 189 victims were identified by Nov 16, 2001?

No, as stated many times i am asking the question that how did that many bodies get identified before the new DNA testing was out?

I have never stated anyone was lying, just asking questions to get to the truth.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
No, as stated many times i am asking the question that how did that many bodies get identified before the new DNA testing was out?

The Armed Forces Institute of Pathology director, Navy Capt. Glenn N. Wagner explains it all here:

www.dcmilitary.com...

Basically was a team of more than 50 forensic specialists, scientists, and support personnel, working 12 hours shifts.

DNA talk:

Teams of forensic scientists, under the direction of Demris Lee, technical leader of the Nuclear DNA Section, took over the difficult chore of generating a DNA profile of the victims. Their work included not only the Pentagon crash victims, but the victims of the Somerset County crash as well. Every one of the organization's 102 DNA analysts, sample processors, logistics staff, and administrative personnel were involved -- from collecting, tracking, analyzing DNA samples, and gathering and logging DNA reference material to preparing DNA reports. For 18 days following the terrorist attacks, AFDIL employees worked on 12-hour shifts, seven days a week to meet the mission requirements.

[edit on 19-3-2008 by Disclosed]

Originally posted by Griff
Ok. You just agreed with me that it wouldn't be hard to plant this DNA evidence. But, then you state you are going by the information provided by the testing facility?

What if the DNA was planted?

If it was planted, then where did the original DNA come from? Are we talking about killing everyone, burning/smashing their remains, then sending that data to the facility for identification purposes?

Originally posted by Disclosed
If it was planted, then where did the original DNA come from? Are we talking about killing everyone, burning/smashing their remains, then sending that data to the facility for identification purposes?

I can't speculate. Since all I was pointing out is that it would be possible.

You are the one who states that they go by the fact that the bodies were identified. The burden of proof is therefore on you to show that they were.

Not me to speculate on what could have been.

Originally posted by Griff
I can't speculate. Since all I was pointing out is that it would be possible.

You are the one who states that they go by the fact that the bodies were identified. The burden of proof is therefore on you to show that they were.

Not me to speculate on what could have been.

I agreed that it could be possible. As far as proof, I believe the links provided gave lots of information and contacts if you feel the need to find out if they were lying. Just because I agree with the reports does not make me a DNA expert, or allow me access to the testing materials.

The dcmilitary link does into explicit detail about the testing done.

By your statement about the burden of proof being on me, let me make this scenario:

- Lets say I claim that the Pentagon was struck by a coordinated flock of Pigeons with C4 strapped to them. Would the burden of proof be on you to show me video evidence proving this wrong? No feathers at the attack scene, and proof that testing for pigeon feathers was done?

I think not.

You disagree with the original reports, therefore you need to state why and back up your claim. You believe the DNA may have been tampered with before testing....can you back up that claim? What sources?


[edit on 19-3-2008 by Disclosed]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by Disclosed
Actually it wouldnt be hard at all. That would be under the assumption that some party (govt, illuminati, etc) killed off the victims, gathered their DNA and provided that to the labs for testing.

As stated there is no evidence that the bodies form the planes were in the buildings.

Really? Did you bother to interview those 1,000+ people who actually know they were?

I find it remarkable that evidence means so little to 9/11 Truthers.

Originally posted by Disclosed
You disagree with the original reports, therefore you need to state why and back up your claim.

This is where you have me pegged for someone else. I actually agree with the original reports about 80-90%. I just believe there are holes that need filled.

And I don't believe asking these questions of our "elected" officials is in anyway validating being ridiculed, thrown out of political debates, or unpatriotic at all. Obviously, I don't mean you Disclosed, but the public at large in general.

You believe the DNA may have been tampered with before testing....can you back up that claim? What sources?

How can I back up my claim of my belief that it could have been tampered with? Other than telling you that is my belief?

Besides. I thought you agreed with me that it could have been?

Originally posted by Griff

You believe the DNA may have been tampered with before testing....can you back up that claim? What sources?

How can I back up my claim of my belief that it could have been tampered with? Other than telling you that is my belief?

Besides. I thought you agreed with me that it could have been?

bah, sorry. Just a bad day at the office, and was venting I guess.

You are correct. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it, and yes you are correct....there is a possibility of tampering sure.

We'll see if during the next administration if further studies will be done...

reply to post by Griff


Hi Griff,

Anything is possible. Lets look at the probability. Look at the procedures of who handled the DNA. Throughout the entire process, civilians were involved in the search, recovery, and identification process. (As well as governement staff)

There are no holes in the process of the collection and identification of the victims of the Pentagon. The only ones that think so, are the people that "Ask Questions and Ignore Answers."

Thanks,

CO

reply to post by ULTIMA1


Ultima,

Either you are confusing the two stories or your are not being honest.

Where is the statement you most recently posted state the date the DNA testing was available???

To help identify victims of the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks, the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology used NIST measurements to test new DNA analysis techniques to identify attack victims that would not otherwise have been identified due to small sample size.

-Dr. Arden L. Bement, Jr.
Director
National Institute of Standards and Technology
Technology Administration
U.S. Department of Commerce

And then there is the other quote (in part):

In early November 2001, Dr. Robert Shaler, the director of the WTC DNA identification effort, contacted me and asked if I would be willing to develop some new DNA tests to help in the identification effort. I agreed to fast track our research efforts over the next several months and produce some test materials for his laboratory to try by January 2002.

-John Butler, NIST chemist


Now Ultima.... if you can't see the obvious differences between them, then I can't help you at all. Heck, I even bolded it for you.

Originally posted by Disclosed
The Armed Forces Institute of Pathology director, Navy Capt. Glenn N. Wagner explains it all here:

That still does not explain why the head fo the DNA testing requested new testing.

Also it does not explain how so many bodies were identified without the new testing.

www.nist.gov...

Testimony of

Dr. Arden L. Bement, Jr.
Director
National Institute of Standards and Technology
Technology Administration
U.S. Department of Commerce
Before the

Committee on Science
Subcommittee on Environment, Technology, and Standards
House of Representatives
United States Congress

“Homeland Security”

June 10, 2002

To help identify victims of the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks, the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology used NIST measurements to test new DNA analysis techniques to identify attack victims that would not otherwise have been identified due to small sample size.

Originally posted by jthomas
Really? Did you bother to interview those 1,000+ people who actually know they were?

What 1,000 plus people? I am asking for actual evdience that the bodies from the planes were in the buildings.

Can you show me evidence, YES or NO ?


[edit on 20-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
That still does not explain why the head fo the DNA testing requested new testing.

Also it does not explain how so many bodies were identified without the new testing.

Actually they do. the links explain in detail how they identified the bodies (all but 5). Just because you choose not to accept the facts does not mean they dont exist.

All of the details are explained in the links already provided.

But.....lets back the truck up. Did the military teams that did the DNA testing for the Pentagon victims also do WTC victim testing? The reports listed show that they only worked on the Pentagon victims, and some PA victims. No WTC victims.....so your new DNA testing question is moot.

The reports provided in the OPs links stand.

Thanks again, CaptainObvious, for providing fact filled, and very informative data regarding the quick identification of the Pentagon victims.


[edit on 20-3-2008 by Disclosed]

Originally posted by Disclosed
Actually they do. the links explain in detail how they identified the bodies (all but 5).

So you still believe the fire in the Pentagon would not have destroyed DNA even thought it destroyed the plane ?

Please read and try to understand what the following quote states about the Pentagon.

“Homeland Security”

June 10, 2002

To help identify victims of the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks, the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology used NIST measurements to test new DNA analysis techniques to identify attack victims that would not otherwise have been identified due to small sample size.

[edit on 20-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by CaptainObvious



Look at your opening thread title. "Is it possible".

It is also possible that the evidence was tampered with.

Unless the chain of command is open for verification, we will never know. Do you happen to have that info?

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
So you still believe the fire in the Pentagon would not have destroyed DNA even thought it destroyed the plane ?

This is the crux of the argument here.

How can a plane "vaporize" but still leave us bodies to identify? At least with the older DNA testing before 2002.

[edit on 3/20/2008 by Griff]

Still waiting for any evidence that the bodies from the planes were in the buildings.

Originally posted by Griff
This is the crux of the argument here.

How can a plane "vaporize" but still leave us bodies to identify? At least with the older DNA testing before 2002.

I have made the statement many times. If the fire was hot enough to destroy the plane it would also destroyed DNA.

Almost all the major listing of identifications were in before 2002, before the new testing was completed.


[edit on 20-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
So you still believe the fire in the Pentagon would not have destroyed DNA even thought it destroyed the plane ?

Wow, sounds like more than just a normal office fire, like you have stated before.

Do you believe the only way to identify bodies was with that DNA test made after 2002? Aparenly they were able to identify 184 of 189 bodies by Nov 16th 2001....according to official reports and by DNA experts. They explained in detail how they identified the victims at the Pentagon.

Are you saying they are lying?

Originally posted by DisclosedWow, sounds like more than just a normal office fire, like you have stated before.

Do you believe the only way to identify bodies was with that DNA test made after 2002?

1. I never stated anything about the fire at the Pentagon being a normal office fire, We were talking about the towers and building 7.


2. No not the only way, but the correct way.


“Homeland Security”

June 10, 2002

To help identify victims of the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks, the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology used NIST measurements to test new DNA analysis techniques to identify attack victims that would not otherwise have been identified due to small sample size.



[edit on 20-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]