In Your Opinion, what is the best?

If the sht really hits the fan replacement parts are going to be the last thing you need to think about, as is constant maintenance...


For a rifle I suggest The Arsenal SLR-106FR, AR accuracy AK reliability.

5.56x45mm NATO

$650-$850

If your budget is in the $1000-$1500 range opt for a Ohio Rapid Fire Galil AR.
Century has cheaper ones but they are built by monkeys.

Handgun Any Glock in 9mm.



[edit on 18-3-2008 by C0le]

Originally posted by crgintx
Master or no, a thug punk who's a fair shot with a .22 RF pistol will kill you and your dog from 25 yards without much fuss.
[]
They can't kill anyone with someone pulling the trigger first.

The master gives death no place or opportunity to enter.

A gun serves no primary use in my daily life. If I am to take the life of someone it will be done at close quarters; by hand or with hand tools that just happen to be around, which, I use regularly to do other positive and creative things.

Your punk has not seen me from 25 yards with a 20 oz estwing claw hammer.

trained,

Sri Oracle

reply to post by C0le


That is a sexy gun

Do you have personal experience with it?

Pros/Cons?

Wow I just got some bad news. I've been trying to obtain residency so I could get my license to carry, (I've been a nomad for awhile and am not legally a resident anywhere.) It turns out that the county I live in in New York is not very weapons friendly at all, and from what I've been reading online I may have trouble getting a license to carry. I could move one county over and things would be fine, but I would have to start all over with the residency thing and wait even longer to get my license. Why are they allowed to infringe on my Constitutional rights like this? Anyone know who I can write to try and get my rights back? Do I need to start a petition or something? I'm so pissed off right now that I've been wasting the past few months in a county that may not even issue me a license. Where is freedom going?

Do I need to start a petition or something? I'm so pissed off right now that I've been wasting the past few months in a county that may not even issue me a license. Where is freedom going?

Are you not a US citizen? If not, I agree that you should have more than difficulty. If you are, then it sucks to go through so much crap to get a license to carry. My license is recognized by my state and most others, but Missouri and Georgia refuse to recognize a carry permit from anywhere, We were warned when we got our permits to either not carry to these states, or unload the weapon, remove the clip, store the gun in the glove box, and store the ammo and clip in the trunk. I have been told, not sure if it's true or not, that you do not have to have a permit to carry in Arizona. It is legal to carry period there. That inf may be wrong though.

reply to post by Christian Voice


I'm a US citizen, born and raised, have a clean criminal record, (never even a single traffic ticket), served in the US Army, went to Iraq, and now I'm being told that I probably won't be able to carry if I live in this county. I can carry in the county if I get a license from another county, but I can't be a resident in this one. I've been trying to establish residency here, and also been saving up for a gun, and now if I want to get one I probably have to move. (Apparently I can get a license to carry for hunting or range purposes only. Even self-defense is not a valid reason to get a license to carry.) Perhaps yet another move is in order for me. I would only have to move a few miles away to be in the next county where it's easier to get a license. Then I have to start the residency process all over again, and I lose residency for the community college tuition discount here! Bah!

reply to post by Christian Voice


In Arizona it is legal to carry a loaded firearm with no permit license etc as long as the gun is in plain veiw and it is a two step process to fire the weapon. For example draw the weapon from holster and chamber a round. Or draw from holster remove from safe and fire. To carry a concealed carry license you need to go to an 8 hour class that I beleive is around $250. To own a firearm you do not need a license etc so if you buy from the paper or gun show no ones the wiser you ever obtained a gun.

It's good to see all the familiar faces for the Sitx gun discussion!

I agree with everyone so far that the Hi-point C9 is a great pistol.

BUT!!

Never Never Never Never Ever use the 15 rd mags in either the C9 or the 995. I bought two 15 rd'ers and fiddled and finangled and bent and polished and cursed and swore for weeks and could not get either one to feed more than 3 rds into either a C9 or 995 before failing. Spend your $20 on more 10 rd mags.

I have a 995 and a C9 for my companion guns (gun used by anyone that is coming with me and is not already armed ie girlfriend, friend, neighbour, etc whatever) I also have 10 extra mags that fit in either or.
Hi-points are ugly and crude and gun snobs will sneer but they are indestructable!!!! I would trust my life to a Hi-Point.

My choices for sitx bug out guns for my own carry are

Llama Mini-Max .45 which I carry now everyday and have put more than 500 rds through without a single failure or misfeed. .45 ammo may be harder to acquire in Sitx from law enforcemnt but every looney extremist will be carrying a 1911 type .45 and have ammo available. The .45 acp is THE personal defense round. 9mm is good and .40 S&W is very good but the .45 is tried and proven. Also, the report from a .45 ACP is enough to make most people ruin their trousers.

Rifle: SKS. Unmodified with some spare parts stripped from another in your pack. Include chest rig for 200rds on stripper clips and have another 200 rds. on clips in your pack. You'll be ok Also, when you buddy with the AR type in 5.56 gets a baddy pinned behind a cinder block wall and can't get him using his civilian ammo you can use that 7.62 Combloc to punch a hole right through and say hello!

Shotguns are for home defense or hunting dove. Also good for crowd control.

the conclusion I have come to is this. If it goes bang and you can afford it, it will probably work out ok. Make sure you have enough ammo on hand to last for awhile and always remember that if you run out of ammo and can't find more there is probably someone else that is no longer in need of their's and who are not in a position to protest.

reply to post by Tinhatman
I've been planning on buying a few of the 15 rounders, but after your post, I think I'll pass though. By the way, what's your opinion on Rossi revolvers? I was thinking of purchasing a .357 with a 4' barrel. From what I've read they sound pretty reliable, and are fairly inexpensive.




[edit on 3/22/08 by LLoyd45]

reply to post by LLoyd45


I have fired a Rossi 5 shot .38 spc small frame. I liked it alot actually. It was comprable in fit in finish to my charter arms undercover that I used to use for my CCW. Of course, I only fired 15 rds through the Rossi and have no long term experience or have heard any long term reviews on them. My first impression was very favorable though.

Now if their revolvers are comparable in quality to their muzzleloaders I would have no problem purchasing one myself. My dad has one of their .50 cal's and he loves it.

Edit: Also, only use Hi-point brand mags. I have tried an aftermarket 8 rd in the C9 and it was a no go. Either order direct from Hi-point or have your local dealer order direct for you.

[edit on 22-3-2008 by Tinhatman]

reply to post by an3rkist


Ah, Damned Yankee land, so glad I don't live there. Ana, why would you ever want to live in any where north of the Mason-Dixon? Those folks up threre are plum stupid crazy. I think it's the 4 months of solid frozen that does it to their brains. Maybe you need some Canadian border bandits to stir things up.

Texas has very good Veterans assistance programs which is one of the many reasons I moved back when I retired from the AF. No one here will blink an eye at an honorably discharged military veteran getting a concealed carry permit.

It's unfortunate that 2nd and 10th Amendments sometimes interfere with each other but it was the founding fathers nod to the state and local gov'ts have some legal authority to govern and maintain order.

reply to post by crgintx


the 10th and 2nd only interfere when the people in charge can't read.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

is clearly and concisely after

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Clearly since the rights of the people shall not be infringed, the right to infringe on the bearing of arms is clearly prohibited by the Constitution!

The 10th Amendment does not give states the right to violate all the other Amendments, it guarantees that the states cannot violate them.
State mandated gun control laws are unconstitutional and are only upheld by incompetent activist judges. And the term "reasonable infringement" appears in no text of the Amendment I have ever read.

No State should ever say no to someone, barring felony conviction or mental incompetency, owning or carrying a firearm. Who the hell do they think they are telling someone what they can or cannot own. Aren't we free? We should be able to buy machineguns at 7-11 if we so choose.

reply to post by crgintx


I used to live in Texas, too. Can't deny it's probably the greatest state in the Union. I still have a Texas tow-hitch cover on my truck. But I have my reasons for being up here. The gun laws are quite unfortunate, though. If this Free State Project I've been reading about pans out I may just head over to New Hampshire with that group...

So I've gotten one fairly good review for the Springfield XD-45 acp, (or maybe it wasn't for that one in particular, but...) Anyone else used it? I shied away from it at first but the more I read about it the more I like it. Anyone else with experience with it, though please let me know what you think about it.

reply to post by an3rkist


A springfield anything will take you to hell and back. If you have the flow, buy it. IMO

I realize that this topic has basically been about guns.

But since:

b) Guns are not legal where I live without a license

b) Practically no-one of my fellow citizens has such a license

I was wondering:

What about a sword? A nice Japanese Katana for example.

Why?

a) Legal to own without license.. just not legal to carry visibly on public. But if SitX is there, who cares?

b) Does not run out of ammo and you don't have to carry ammo with you.

c) Low/no maintenance

c) Most people would, if the situation arises, go for their kitchen knives as the first weapon to select. Perhaps a baseball bat or metal pipe coming to think of it..
The people with guns would probably be small gangs here.. and I think it would be best to avoid these anyway..

I guess most people, when facing a large sword blade while holding a knife, would probably think twice of approaching you.

d) Can be easily carried/transported


I was wondering if I was overlooking something, following this line of thought.

Any comments?

reply to post by an3rkist


Report the county to G.O.A.L (gun owners action league), they'll take on the fight for you, and they have a lot more pull than you will. I did the same thing with the town I was claiming residence in, but the process took longer than I liked, so I rented a different apartment in a more gun friendly town and had my LTC 4 weeks later. Either way you're going to be waiting a while to get it, the gov't doesn't seem to like making things easy on the law abiding citizens in the country.

As far as gun choices go:
For my handgun I use a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan with a 2.6" barrel chambered for .44 mag so I can interchange with 44 spcl as well. The ammo has gone through the roof for both types of .44's (about .80 a shot as of last week) but I reload my own far better rounds than factory for about .17 a shot which still makes it practical for me, that coupled with the fact I have about 2000 brass cases. This gun is a bit big for most people to handle without a lot of practice though, so I would recommend sticking with the Ruger revolvers, they are real workhorses and the epitomy of reliability, but I would go for a GP-100 in .357 with a 4-6" barrel - very cost friendly (around $300 for a great used gun). I don't think I would settle with just one handgun though, therefore I also have a backup semi (Sig P220 in .45 acp).

For my rifle I just purchased a Bushmaster AR-15 with a 7.62x39mm upper. I haven't even picked it up at the shop yet it's so new (had to have some alterations done to it to make it compliant with the liberal policies of the peoples republic.. err... state in which I currently reside). I have no idea how it shoots or how reliable it is, but I have heard great things about them, and I've always been a fan of the 7.62x39mm cartridge. Getting it new for $500 off retail helped the decision making process considerably.

I have several shotguns now, 2 12 ga - one pump Winchester and a Browning Auto-5, and a Stoeger side by side 20 ga. I would not like to be in an armed conflict with any of them really, but the Browning A-5 is a superior hunting shotgun and has earned it's keep since the day I inherited it. I'm hoping to pick up a Stoeger 2000 semi with a tactical set-up sometime in the not too distant future however, and I think for the price (in the $300 range) it is difficult to beat for function and reliability. After all, Stoeger is made by the same folks who make Benelli now. With the tactical set-up you can expect 8+1 capacity, coupled with a nice pistol grip stock and some ghost ring sights, this to me would be an ideal weapon for close quarters defense.

As others have mentioned I would definitely not overlook a Ruger 10/22 also. I have one, as does every member of my family. It is an excellent rifle, very reliable, very accurate, and capable of a lot of firepower. I have 8-10 25 rnd mags for it doubled up and loaded with CCI stingers. I can't really think of a better weapon for a child or a woman not too familiar with shooting to carry in a Sit-x scenario where a lot of cover fire may be needed for tactical advantage - a lot of .22's cracking over your head will keep you pinned down just as well as a lot of .223's, and a .22 is still very capable of mortally wounding or at the very least taking a lot of the fight out of an opponent - not to mention much more precise shot placement with high rate of fire, still relatively cheap ammo, and the ability to carry a whooole lot of ammo with little space/weight consumption.

No matter what you pick, make sure you have as much ammo as you can afford. The prices are skyrocketing and they will just get worse, presumably the supply will also shorten up in the not too distant future. I'd rather have ammunition than money if TSHTF because ammo will be a far better currency in that event, just something to keep in mind.

I have 5 tools that I keep with me for purposes of gathering food, and providing for defense for myself and loved ones should it ever be needed. Not to mention that target sports are just plain fun. They're like fireworks, and just as American as the 4th of July. They fall into categories:


1) Long range
2) Medium range
3) Short range
4) Utility
5) Cheap



The requirements I have for each category are this:


Long Range: A large-ish caliber round with a reputation for accuracy, using a simple but very accurate bolt-action platform.

Medium Range: Good punch, penetration, and knock down power, in a semi-auto platform with high capacity magazines.

Short Range: Something with power but easily wielded in one hand.

Utility: Just a good sharp pocket knife.

Cheap: Well, cheap.


Ammunition availability is important also. All What I have settled on:


1) Savage Model 12 FV in .308 Winchester. Good 20-power scope. Price: $600.

2) Saiga AK 47 in 7.62 x 39. 30-round magazines. Price: $350

3) Rossi 357 magnum revolver with 6 inch barrel. Good & cheap. Price: $350. Also, Springfield XD in .40 S&W. Price: $550.

4) Heck, anything sharp that you can tuck away.

5) Ruger 10/22. This will put small game on the kitchen table for a few pennies a shot. Great for rabbits and the like.



The .308 winchester, .40 S&W and 7.62x39 rounds are all plentiful and not too expensive. Many police carry sidearms in .40 S&W, but you might consider 9mm since it is a popular caliber the world over. Of course, with the .22 you can buy a zillion rounds for next to nothing, and have fun shooting cans and bottles all day. The 357 mag has been around a long time, and offers more handheld power than the .40 so I have it too.

If for you it comes down to having 2 guns and some ammo, or 1 gun and a lot of ammo, I'd go with the ammo. Buy all you can afford. Each round might be worth a million bucks when supplies get low.



I do not have much experience with shotguns, though I'm sure it's worth looking into getting one as well.



Also:

- As many 5-gallon water jugs as you can fit in your basement.

- Dried food. Beans, rice, dehydrated meals, beef jerky. A wind turbine or solar power supply to run a freezer. Keep corn tortillas, cheese, other dense high-calorie foods that need to be frozen here.

- Canned food. Anything and everything.

- Night vision / infra-red goggles.

- Kevlar vest. Steel or ceramic plates.

- Gas mask.

- Antibiotics.

- Tiny spy cameras looking around your property.



Of course, this is in an ideal world where you have the money and means to do all this. Do what you can.

The more of us who are prepared, the less we all suffer and the quicker we can recover from the mess which might be on the way. Keep working peacefully and pray that this day never comes. Think thoughts of harmony and peace, good will toward all, safety and prosperity for everyone.



(Of course, this is not advice. I am just a harmless hobo not worth listening to...)





[edit on 8-4-2008 by ianr5741]

[edit on 8-4-2008 by ianr5741]

It seems funny that so many survivalists are focused on which cannon to buy. What are you guys expecting to do... fight a war?

In a survival situation, or a bug out situation when you need to move fast, do you really want to wear yourself down carrying heavy artillery, and the ammo to feed it? Whew. Try packing that kind of weight around for a few days, along with enough food and water for the month or two it takes for things to shake out.

I like an M-14 for fixed base operations but in an absolute necessity, must do situation, your focus should be on using stealth, concealment, and the element of surprise using brainpower instead of firepower.

A long-barreled Ruger target pistol (or an AR-7 survival rifle) is ideal. It's concealable, can be carried in the trunk of your car, has the advantage of ammo that's readily available, light weight, and it's very very accurate for most close-in encounters up to 100m+.

When properly used, this small caliber weapon is more than adequate to secure yourself and whatever else you might want, or need to take away from somebody who has it, and in dealing with those not as alert, or as clever, as you hope you will be.

It seems funny that so many survivalists are focused on which cannon to buy. What are you guys expecting to do... fight a war?

In a survival situation, or a bug out situation when you need to move fast, do you really want to wear yourself down carrying heavy artillery, and the ammo to feed it? Whew. Try packing that kind of weight around for a few days, along with enough food and water for the month or two it takes for things to shake out.

I like an M-14 for fixed base operations but in an absolute necessity, must do situation, your focus should be on using stealth, concealment, and the element of surprise using brainpower instead of firepower.

A long-barreled Ruger target pistol (or an AR-7 survival rifle) is ideal. It's concealable, can be carried in the trunk of your car, has the advantage of ammo that's readily available, light weight, and it's very very accurate for most close-in encounters up to 100m+.

When properly used, this small caliber weapon is more than adequate to secure yourself and whatever else you might want, or need to take away from somebody who has it, and in dealing with those not as alert, or as clever, as you hope you will be.