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Easter and its Pagan roots

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posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
It's
pretty
crazy
to
argue
with
people
you
believe
are
crazy.


That has to be the most creative way of telling someone to shut their mouth that I have ever seen.
Honestly, wouldn't you feel better if you just told me to shut up and get it out of your system? Come on! Let your pentecostal hairdo down! I'll just bet there are a lot of things you'd like to get off your chest.




posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
Wow. That sounds just like the story of Jesus!



Quoted from several sources with a simple Google search.




Mithras was born in a cave, with shepherds in attendance, on the twenty-fifth of December. (Alternatively, he is assisted in his birth from a stone by shepherds.)

He had twelve companions as Jesus had twelve disciples. Mithras also performed miracles

Mithra was called "the good shepherd,” "the way, the truth and the light,” “redeemer,” “savior,” “Messiah." He was identified with both the lion and the lamb

In the catacombs at Rome was preserved a relic of the old Mithraic worship. It was a picture of the infant Mithra seated in the lap of his virgin mother, while on their knees before him were Persian Magi adoring him and offering gifts.

He was buried in a tomb and after three days he rose again. His resurrection was celebrated every year.

Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected. His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day."

An inscription in the Vatican states plainly, "He who will not eat of my body, nor drink of my blood, so that he may be one with me and I with him, shall not be saved." This is not terribly surprising, unless you consider that this is inscribed on the remains of the temple the Vatican was built on- one dedicated to the God Mithras. Mithras was a solar deity whose worshippers called him redeemer; his religion died out not long after the advent of Christianity.



So Jesus is an incarnation of Mithras and Jesus is not so unique after all?


[edit on 17-3-2008 by rizla]



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 02:22 PM
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You and your complicated lives. Third day He rose again. First day of death, Friday. Friday afternoon. It's not night, it's day. After 3PM, they went home about their business. The Roman government went about their business and they talked about securing Jesus' tomb to make sure that no desciple will take the body out and claim He has risen.

Friday is still considered a day. You know, the sun is up...DAY. The next DAY, saturDAY, is the second DAY. The next DAY, sunDAY morning, is the third DAY. Our savior has risen. You can pull all of your links and passages and all the complicated conspiracy stuff. And that's what's difficult about your lives. You guys live in question marks, voids, emptiness, discontent, hatred perhaps, and again emptiness.

You may want to focus on eggs and bunnies all you want. But us Catholics, along with Christians, look at this week as a week of contemplation, of who we have hurt, of who we lacked to provide care, of what we had done to others, of what we had done for Him, and what sins we have committed. We spend this week trying to find ways to love and spread love to family, friends, strangers, and believe it or not even hate mongering conspiracy theorist, phoebia ridden people like you.

This week was about sacrifice. Going through so much for things Jesus never did to anyone in the first place. And this week reminds us that if Jesus is willing to be humiliated, scourged, and killed for something he did not do in the first place but for just speaking the Truth, who are we to complain about our own difficulties.

It tells us that it is ok for people to redicule us, hate us out of something petty (our hair, our skin color, our accent, our ugly faces, etc), humiliated us out of their own recreation, etc. As long as we are in peace with the Lord and that we do the great deed He did to others while He was on earth among people.

You guys worry so much about eggs and rabbit, costumes and jack o lanterns (during halloween). Your lives are empty and pathetic.



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 02:28 PM
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Yep, Jesus seems to have a lot in common with many previously 'crucified' (hung on a tree etc) Gods.

THE CRUCIFIED SAVIORS


The list of the deathless mortals who suffered for man that he might receive the boon of eternal life is an imposing one... Prometheus, Adonis, Apollo, Arys, Bacchus, Buddha, Christna, Horus, Indra, Ixion, Mithras, Osiris, Pythagoras, Quetzalcoatl, Semiramis, and Jupiter...it is possible that most of them were crucified upon a cross or tree.

Concerning the crucifixion of the Persian Mithras, J. P. Lundy has written: "Dupuis tells us that Mithra was put to death by crucifixion, and rose again on the 25th of March...His priests watched his tomb to the midnight of the vigil of the 25th of March, with loud cries, and in darkness; when all at once the light burst forth from all parts, the priest cried, Rejoice, O sacred initiated, your God is risen. His death, his pains, and sufferings, have worked your salvation."


Check out that link. The symbol of Mithras was a Tau cross. Basically a 'T'. Bearing in mind that the crucifix did not appear in early Christianity and had no significance in the religion for the first 100 years, then it is quite possible that the symbol was drawn from Mithraism.

Mind you, the Egyptians had the Ankh before that... Who know how far back the 'crucifix' goes.



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by Lilitu
 


Those pesky little T&C's get in the way of my much desired arseholery. I have no other choice but to get creative!


reply to post by rizla
 


It's fake.

Mithras vs. Jesus Debunked

Cave Birth: He wasn't born in a cave but emerged from solid rock (see the images on the above website showing this).

Shepherds: Kind of difficult believing this since his emergence from a rock was supposed to have occurred before the creation of humans. Furthermore, the earliest relief of this depiction comes from 4th century A.D. (too late to be considered an inspiration for Jesus).

Burial and Resurrection: Mithras was never believed to have died or been buried. All reliefs (Remember, there is no existing textual evidence of the Mithras cult. The only thing we have are stone reliefs) show him being taken to Heaven alive and well.

The 'Communal Inscription.' This is false and no evidence has ever been found for this. The only thing remotely relating to this and the Mithras cult was written around the middle ages if my memory serves me correctly.

The only thing Jesus and Mithras really have in common is that their 'holy days' were observed on Sunday and both their births were celebrated on December 25th, although Biblical scholars have no doubt Jesus was not born on that date due to internal and external Biblical evidence.

All of this stems from the Christ Myth Hypothesis. Mithras, Horus, Osiris, Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, etc. and their parallels are mostly sheer fabrication but have been debunked once you investigate the religious texts and reliefs associated with figures. Then you will see these parallels are totally false.



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by vietnambestfriendYour lives are empty and pathetic.


What was it that Gandhi said about Christians?

Some christians anyway. Ouch. where is that other nasty man Christianvoice? You two could have a baby together.

[edit on 17-3-2008 by rizla]



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


Maybe. As I said in my previous post, there have been a lot of 'crucified' Gods. I find it hard to believe Jesus is not related to these earler Gods.

And there are no depictions of crucifixes in early christianity. From what I recall, the catacombs only show Jesus as a young man in pastoral scenes. So it seems crucifixes were added later. I wonder where from...



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by rizla
 


Now that you bring that one but in 1200 BC Virishna also bear the same attributes as the messiah, even when is claimed that he is Vishnu incarnated.

Interesting to point out that is over 35 more that can be called messiahs.

But we all know that they are all false messiahs because the bible tell yo so



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
But we all know that they are all false messiahs because the bible tell yo so


I think that is /sarcasm on. It can be hard to tell, particularly with christian dogma.



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by rizla
 


Well theologians seems to completely ignore the fact that ancient civilizations history also had created their own messiahs before the Christ of Christianity.

But because he was the one that made it to the bible as the Chosen Israeli one he got the jack pot.
to be recognized through eternity.



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by rizla
Maybe. As I said in my previous post, there have been a lot of 'crucified' Gods. I find it hard to believe Jesus is not related to these earler Gods.


Actually, no crucified gods either. Not trying to be mean or debunk everything you are saying. I know this rumor is passed along often but it simply isn't true. The myth got its start from a work by Kersey Graves called The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors.

It's been debunked for over a century but other Christ Myth works still pass off his claims as fact.

Alleged Crucified Deities Debunked.



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 02:50 PM
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I thought christianity was originally derived from paganism. So if this is true, it doesnt sound like much of a surprise to me




posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
Actually, no crucified gods either. Not trying to be mean or debunk everything you are saying. I know this rumor is passed along often but it simply isn't true. The myth got its start from a work by Kersey Graves called The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors.

It's been debunked for over a century but other Christ Myth works still pass off his claims as fact.

Alleged Crucified Deities Debunked.


So what about Odin on the world tree? I'll bet there are others.

And what about the fact that there were no crucifixes in early christianity, but that they were added later, probably directly from mithraism (the Tau cross)?



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 02:52 PM
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Well no matter what easter is was or never has been.

It's something that my kid's enjoy so it's got to be good no matter what it's root's are.

If there were more easter's maybe there would be more joy in the world lol.

Take care.

Regards
Lee




posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 02:53 PM
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...a person who operates, for example, at a rational level of consciousness has a very different idea of God than a person who operates at a mythological level of consciousness. The average person in the West, and probably in the East, too, has basically conceived of God in mythological terms for most of the last three thousand years.

source

So, yes, we still have stories like the Easter stories.

Religion will progress. To the point where we do not need religion as it is today. Too bad for those calling themselves "priests". (Conspiracy to keep it from not progressing?)

A rational experience of God need not be less deep than a mythological view of God. Man's Idea of Beauty changes, too, but the deepness of experiencing a "beautiful" piece of art, music, etc. need not be different.



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


In addition, Krishna. He was hung from a tree in death. Sometimes he is depicted with holes in his hands, feet and side. Sometimes he is 'nailed' to the tree with an arrow. The bible refers to Christ's crucifixion as 'hung from a tree'.



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by h3akalee
 


I mentioned above that my church did not recognize the Catholic Easter, but we did use it for a family day, with egg hunts, and stuff.

Great show on Coast to Coast, saturday night, hosted by Ian Punnet.
They were discussing Irish and christian Irish stories and Ian concluded that the myths were probubly true and that the christian stories were probubly not.
Very funny, but he may be right.
There may be more truth to the myths that were later incorporated into what the christians tryed to replace them with.



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by rizla
In addition, Krishna. He was hung from a tree in death. Sometimes he is depicted with holes in his hands, feet and side. Sometimes he is 'nailed' to the tree with an arrow. The bible refers to Christ's crucifixion as 'hung from a tree'.


We're getting a bit off topic and the Christ Myth debate is something I've explained numerous times on here so here is a quick answer before I move long.


According to the Vedic writings and Hinduism, Krisha was not crucified. He was struck by an arrow accidentally by a hunter who mistook him for a deer.

"A fierce hunter of the name of Jara then came there, desirous of deer. The hunter, mistaking [Krishna], who was stretched on the earth in high Yoga, for a deer, pierced him at the heel with a shaft and quickly came to that spot for capturing his prey." -Mahabharata, Book 16, 4

The website I linked to before is actually my own site. You can read all about different pagan parallel allegations HERE. It took me about 6 months do go through all the sacred texts of other pagan figures to get to the truth. Upon doing so, I was pretty upset at the lies being told about the hypothesis.

Also, HERE is a site that offers many more figures used as supposed models for the life of of Jesus. Just click on the names you are interested in to see who it has pretty much been debunked.

Concerning Odin. This one has always confused me the most because I can never get a straight answer out of anyone. Some claim the myths of Odin being placed on a tree for nine days didn't even surface until after 1,000 A.D. once Christianity started getting a strong foothold in Northern Europe. That claim is typically made by Christians. Then the Christ Mythers claim the myths were around before the time of Christ. So, it's hard to tell who is telling the truth. One thing I do know, however, is the Messianic prophecies in the OT described the Messiah being crucified before the method of crucifixion was even popularized (and some say before it even existed).

Christ Mythers often forget so many things about Jesus' ministry were not invented in the first century but were foretold centuries in advance. This includes the virgin birth, crucifixion, performing miracles, coming as a suffering servant, etc. They seem to forget it wasn't a case of apostles sitting around a table picking and choosing myths of the day that sounded 'kewl' in order to create a new figure.

Crucifixes in early Christianity. I haven't researched this one too widely but there are inscriptions dating back to the first century of crosses in Jerusalem on ossuaries and in tombs. Not sure if they are legitimate or not although I have no reason to disbelieve them. Again, I haven't looked into it enough to see the pros and cons of the finds.

[edit on 3/17/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
According to the Vedic writings and Hinduism, Krisha was not crucified. He was struck by an arrow accidentally by a hunter who mistook him for a deer.


Yes, but I think the hanging from a tree symbolism is the point here. Krishna was hung from a tree in death, nailed to it by an arrow. Also I think his liver was pecked out by vultures, just as Odin's was. This corresponds well with the hole in the side of Jesus (Krishna is reported to have a hole in the side of the body, as well as hands and feet).

I doubt that the mythical Jesus is based on Krishna, but we are seeing symbology common to the two. By the same token, I doubt Odin on the tree is based on Christ. The vikings were entirely pagan at that time. A better question is to ask what does the tree mean in mythology? Christmas tree anyone?



Christ Mythers often forget so many things about Jesus' ministry were not invented in the first century but were foretold centuries in advance. This includes the virgin birth, crucifixion, performing miracles, coming as a suffering servant, etc. They seem to forget it wasn't a case of apostles sitting around a table picking and choosing myths of the day that sounded 'kewl' in order to create a new figure.


I'm not quite sure I understand you here. They were foretold? Care to explain?

I'm hardly suggesting people made stuff up because it was 'kewl'. What is more likely, and the phenomena is documented, is that the new religion was fused with the symbolism of older religions to make it more palatable to new worshipers. This may have been an deliberate and contrived process, and it may also have occurred spontaneously as these things do over time.



Crucifixes in early Christianity. I haven't researched this one too widely but there are inscriptions dating back to the first century of crosses in Jerusalem on ossuaries and in tombs. Not sure if they are legitimate or not although I have no reason to disbelieve them. Again, I haven't looked into it enough to see the pros and cons of the finds.


I find it shocking that a symbol that is now so central to christianity was non-existent in the original religion. It appears it was added later, but to what purpose? Is it the mithraic Tau T incorporated to win over followers of Mithras? Who added it and why?



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by rizla
Krishna was hung from a tree in death, nailed to it by an arrow. Also I think his liver was pecked out by vultures, just as Odin's was.


Not sure about Odin and the vultures but Krishna died and returned to life almost instantly.


This corresponds well with the hole in the side of Jesus (Krishna is reported to have a hole in the side of the body, as well as hands and feet).


Krishna didn't have all that, though. He was only shot in the foot.


I doubt that the mythical Jesus is based on Krishna, but we are seeing symbology common to the two. By the same token, I doubt Odin on the tree is based on Christ. The vikings were entirely pagan at that time. A better question is to ask what does the tree mean in mythology? Christmas tree anyone?


In most Greek/Roman pagan myths the tree represented the death of Attis and annual return of spring among other things.



I'm not quite sure I understand you here. They were foretold? Care to explain?


They're known as the Messianic Prophecies.


I find it shocking that a symbol that is now so central to christianity was non-existent in the original religion. It appears it was added later, but to what purpose? Is it the mithraic Tau T incorporated to win over followers of Mithras? Who added it and why?


The thing is, there are many references to 'the cross' in the Bible. The Pauline Epistles seem to place added emphasis on them. The Pauline Epistles were also some of the first Bible books written so it seems the cross was emphasized. Then, as I mentioned before, there are some crosses in first century tombs.

HERE is one more site you should take a look at. One of my readers sent it to me and he did an excellent job (even touched on many things I never got around to).

My personal thoughts on it are if you look hard enough you will be able to find parallels in just about anything. HERE is me having a bit of fun with such a thing. However, when we get into more specifics, such similarities fall apart. Matched with the messianic prophecies, it does seem like the smaller similarities are just a coincidence due to chance. Of course I might not expect the more hardcore Christ Mythers to accept the coincidence but, again, we can find parallels between Jesus and a golf ball if we try hard enough.

Hope I have been of some help.



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