9/11 What evidence would make you believe in a conspiracy?

reply to post by ULTIMA1


ULTIMA, you're back on about this again, are you?

I've explained it to you, at least, but it was probably months ago, and you forgot.

You have Military experience....but not much in the Civilian world, it would seem. A fighter pilot wears a headset, including earpiece and mic, since it's incorporated into his helmet and mask, right?

Civilians are required to wear a headset, and boom mic, only below 18,000 feet. Then, we can take the darn things off, and use the overhead speakers, and the hand mics.

In any case, I told you this already.....and besides, there are sounds that got out, on the ATC frequencies, with the sounds of struggles "Get Out of here!" and so forth......and, of course, the bastards themselves, accidentally transmitting on ATC when they thought it was the PA.....they likely used the hand mic, not undertanding how to use it properly.......or, more specifically, how to select the mic in the Audio Panel.

Of course, they weren't smart or experienced enough to know that there is a telephone-like handset that is used to make PAs......

FLIGHT 11 WTC crash
Here's some info about just a few witnesses.


-The crash was also witnessed by nearby pedestrians and drivers.

-Sean Murtagh, CNN vice-president of finance, in an on-air phone call, said from his office in the CNN New York bureau that a large passenger commercial jet hit the World Trade Center.

-Jules Naudet, a French cameraman, and Pavel Hlava, a Czech immigrant, both filmed the crash of the plane into the building.

-A web cam set up by Wolfgang Staehle at an art exhibit in Brooklyn to take images of Lower Manhattan every four seconds, also captured images of American Airlines Flight 11 crashing into the North Tower.

source wiki

-Ezra Aviles, a Port Authority employee on the 61st floor of the North Tower, saw the plane out his window just before it crashed into floors above him. He worked to alert police and other authorities, making phone calls. He called one colleague, John Paczkowski, and left a message, "It seems to be an American Airlines jetliner came in from the northern direction, toward - from the Empire State Building, towards us." Aviles also called the Port Authority COO, "Smoke is beginning to come, so I think I'm gonna start bailing outta here, man... Don't come near the building if you're outside. Pieces are coming down, man. Bye."

-David Blackford was walking toward work in a downtown building. He heard a jet engine and glanced up. "I saw this plane screaming overhead," he said. "I thought it was too low. I thought it wasn't going to clear the tower."

-Robert Pachino described, "It was a large plane flying low. There was no engine trouble. He didn't try to maneuver. This plane was on a mission."

- * John (spoke with CNN at 10:15 a.m.):

John (a pilot) - This morning we were at Midtown Manhattan, on the 31st story of a building, facing south. We saw a 767 flying low down the center of Manhattan island heading towards downtown Manhattan at about maybe 20 blocks north of the World Trade Center, we saw the plane veer to the left and fly directly into the north side of the south tower [he meant to say the north tower].
CNN - this was the second plane that hit the tower, correct?
John - This was the first plane.
CNN - Got it.
John - It was a 767

-William Ross, PAPD - "At approximately 0845, I, Officers Patrick McNerney and Jose Sanchez, were on routine patrol at the corner of 42nd street and 8th Avenue. As I was looking east on 42nd Street, I observed a commercial passenger jet flying over at an extremely low altitutde, and heading south. I lost sight of the aircraft for a few seconds when it flew behind some buildings. I immediately realized than an aircraft of that size would never be given clearance to fly that low over a populated area. My first thought was that the aircraft was in distress. I thought that the pilot was attempting to make an emergency landing in the harbor off lower Manhattan. From the corner of 42nd Street, where we were standing looking east there is an unobstructed view ofthe top of the Empire State Building. We again spotted the aircraft for a few seconds. It was just east of the Empire State Building and, to my best estimatation, no higher than 500' above it. Duringthis time, I looked for signs of distress. I was trying to observe thge plane, as closely as I could for smoke, fire orany type of vapor trail. There was none. The landing gear was up and the doors that house the gear closed. The plane, was, as I stated, traveling south and was moving at a high rate of speed. It was flying level and straight. The pilot did not appear to be fighting to maintain control of the aircraft. Officers McNerney, Sanchez and I began to comment on the plane. I said if the plane was to crash I hoped the aircraft would make it to the harbor and not hit the Trade Center or the city. Several moments passed, we were listening for the sound of a crash and heard nothing. At approximately 0855, Sergeant Peter Schillizzi the Desk Sergeant broadcast a message over the radio for me, the Patrol Sergeant, Tour Commander and all Officers to return immediately to the Police Desk. At this time, I stated to Officer McNerney "That plane hit the Trade Center!"





[edit on 27-4-2008 by jfj123]

[edit on 27-4-2008 by jfj123]

Originally posted by jfj123
FLIGHT 11 WTC crash
Here's some info about just a few witnesses.

Now do you agree the pilots did not get off an emergect call or signal ? YES or NO ?

Do you agree there is no reports matching the parts found to Flight 11? YES or NO ?

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
FLIGHT 11 WTC crash
Here's some info about just a few witnesses.

Now do you agree the pilots did not get off an emergect call or signal ? YES or NO ?

Do you agree there is no reports matching the parts found to Flight 11? YES or NO ?

I'm more likely to answer your questions when you post them multiple times if you answer mine. In your jet sim. thread, I've posted a set of questions for you 5 times so far with no response.

[edit on 28-4-2008 by jfj123]

Originally posted by jfj123
I'm more likely to answer your questions when you post them multiple times if you answer mine. In your jet sim. thread, I've posted a set of questions for you 5 times so far with no response.

Right, Like your going to answer my questions honestly anyway.

I mean almost 7 years and still no real evidence to support the official story.

reply to post by jfj123


That's pretty much how I remember it but I do keep coming across witness accounts I hadn't heard before all the time, which is an indication of just how many individuals witnessed the events. It's particularly interesting that some of those witnesses correctly identified the aircraft company and even the model involved.

There are bound to be questions but as yet no proof that the event did not happen exactly as it seemed to and as reported. I certainly have no presentable evidence to challenge it (if I did, trust me, I'd bring it forward).

It's been 7 years and no evidence has been produced to counter the sheer weight of real evidence supporting the 'official' version of events.
Just for clarification, I mean REAL evidence not opinions and questions with no answers.

I notice that even those who most vehemently oppose the official reports still lean on them heavily and regularly for material to quote and misrepresent and I believe that's a testament to the amount of real evidence included in those studies.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
I'm more likely to answer your questions when you post them multiple times if you answer mine. In your jet sim. thread, I've posted a set of questions for you 5 times so far with no response.

Right, Like your going to answer my questions honestly anyway.

I mean almost 7 years and still no real evidence to support the official story.

Nice cop out. I'll answer your questions to the best of my ability and honestly as I always do. I just don't feel obligated to answer your questions as you refuse to answer mine. Fair is fair my friend.

So to recap

Thus far we all agree that real planes with real passengers took off, at some point real terrorists took over flight 11, and flew it into the North Tower. Up to this point, nobody has presented any contradictory evidence. Please review my last few posts and post questions, comments and/or contradictory evidence so we can discuss the events to this point. Thank you.

Originally posted by jfj123
Nice cop out. I'll answer your questions to the best of my ability and honestly as I always do.

BS, I have answered the questions you have asked many times if you would read my post and look at the evidence i have posted.

Originally posted by jfj123
Thus far we all agree that real planes with real passengers took off, at some point real terrorists took over flight 11, and flew it into the North Tower.

Do we really have evidence that terrorist took over the plane?



[edit on 29-4-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by jfj123


First the pentagon is the most powerful military the world has ever seen.
One would think it must have great security measures and counter measures.Second if you look at landing gear at site there's only 8 holes
in rim from crashed plane and if it were a 757,there would be 12 holes in rim,feel free to look up.

reply to post by alaron


This is a pic of not just any 757, but the actual AA77 of 9/11 taken about a month before.


From:
Aerospaceweb

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
Nice cop out. I'll answer your questions to the best of my ability and honestly as I always do.

BS, I have answered the questions you have asked many times if you would read my post and look at the evidence i have posted.

I've looked at the posts. You have not answered the questions I'm referring to. So you would be lying my friend.

Originally posted by jfj123
Thus far we all agree that real planes with real passengers took off, at some point real terrorists took over flight 11, and flew it into the North Tower.

Do we really have evidence that terrorist took over the plane?
[edit on 29-4-2008 by ULTIMA1]

I have posted a few bits of evidence in my recent posts regarding the hijackings. Please read them to review said evidence.
Do you have any evidence that terrorists didn't take over the plane?

Even I'll admit there's room for subplots within the overall framework of the events as presented above. The overall event has plenty of evidence for it being as presented but any of the internal variations proposed lack the proof required so they're all purely conjecture and worst of all for them, many alternate theories are mutually incompatable.

Originally posted by jfj123
I've looked at the posts. You have not answered the questions I'm referring to.

I am not going to go back and repost all the evidnece of how fast the plane was going.

I am tired of doing others research. People need to do thier own research.

Originally posted by Pilgrum
This is a pic of not just any 757, but the actual AA77 of 9/11 taken about a month before.

The 757 can use different wheels, 8 or 10 slots.

Originally posted by jfj123
Do you have any evidence that terrorists didn't take over the plane?

You're making the claim that terrorists took over the planes. You need to prove it with evidence.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
I've looked at the posts. You have not answered the questions I'm referring to.

I am not going to go back and repost all the evidnece of how fast the plane was going.

I am tired of doing others research. People need to do thier own research.

Well then I'll make it easy on you.
I'm specifically refering to your thread titled
Jet engine sim for testing 9/11....
and the questions you have refused to answer 7 times now

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by jfj123
Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Originally posted by jfj123
here's a video of a low flying 757


1. Arfe any of the plazne doing 500 mph ?

2. Are any flying within feet of cars on a highway?

I believe the answers are NO and NO.


JFJ123
Since you know this to be true, please tell me the following:
1. Exactly how far up these planes were from the ground.
2. How far they were from said people, planes, etc.
3. How fast they were going.

Since you know the answer is NO and NO, you must be able to answer these 3 questions. I anxiously await your responses.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by jfj123
Do you have any evidence that terrorists didn't take over the plane?

You're making the claim that terrorists took over the planes. You need to prove it with evidence.

I have provided evidence in previous posts. Please read them.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by Pilgrum
This is a pic of not just any 757, but the actual AA77 of 9/11 taken about a month before.

The 757 can use different wheels, 8 or 10 slots.

See, the funny thing is.....ULTIMA can make a statement such as "The 757 can use different wheels, 8 or 10 slots" yet when others make a statement, ULTIMA immediately jumps down their throats, demanding 'evidence'.

ULTIMA, when you mentioned the 757 wheels, and the slot patterns, were you referring to the Main Wheels only, or did you mean to include the NoseWheels as well? See? You weren't specific---you provide no 'evidence', just a blanket statement to obfuscate---and to muddy the situation.

jfj has pointed out, and you have dodged, questions he has asked of you.

Your tactics of 'hit-and-run' are evident, sir....even though your 'evidence' isn't.

ps.....there seems to be an incredible amount of tolerance given you, by those who have this thread under 'close staff scrutiny'. I see very few others posting 'one-liners' as often as you do. Interesting, to say the least.

Reminds me of a school child's "Am not!, Are too!" argument, sometimes....

Thank you for your posts.

WW

[edit on 4/29/0808 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
See, the funny thing is.....ULTIMA can make a statement such as "The 757 can use different wheels, 8 or 10 slots" yet when others make a statement, ULTIMA immediately jumps down their throats, demanding 'evidence'.

Well if you did any research you would know this.

Why do i have to do all the research for you, are you too lazy or too scared to do the research?