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9/11 What evidence would make you believe in a conspiracy?

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posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by hmmmbeer

And can anyone who does not think 911 was a conspiracy please please give another explanation for the BBC report of Tower 7 falling BEFORE it happeend.

Do you really think the British press was in on 9/11?


Watch
www.youtube.com...
and read
www.whatreallyhappened.com...

The press release said 'had collapsed' not was in danger of etc.

Because the media is oh so accurate.


I can not think of another scenario apart from conspiracy and someone accidentally or deliberately releasing 'the news' early.

How about the media in england (far from the US), misunderstood the situation as reports were sketchy even for those in the US.


Apart from teh fact that tower looked very much like a controlled demolition,

Not really.


then falling at pretty much freefall speed
The towers didn't fall at free fall speed.


, onto its own footprint.

It didn't fall into it's own footprint like a CD. Debris fell into tower 7 and all around the towers for blocks.


Not to mention Larry Silverstein TV admission.
[edit on 25/3/2008 by hmmmbeer]

There has never been a tv admission.




posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by hmmmbeer

And can anyone who does not think 911 was a conspiracy please please give another explanation for the BBC report of Tower 7 falling BEFORE it happeend.

Do you really think the British press was in on 9/11?


Watch
www.youtube.com...
and read
www.whatreallyhappened.com...

The press release said 'had collapsed' not was in danger of etc.

Because the media is oh so accurate.


I can not think of another scenario apart from conspiracy and someone accidentally or deliberately releasing 'the news' early.

How about the media in england (far from the US), misunderstood the situation as reports were sketchy even for those in the US.


Apart from teh fact that tower looked very much like a controlled demolition,

Not really.


then falling at pretty much freefall speed
The towers didn't fall at free fall speed.


, onto its own footprint.

It didn't fall into it's own footprint like a CD. Debris fell into tower 7 and all around the towers for blocks.


Not to mention Larry Silverstein TV admission.
[edit on 25/3/2008 by hmmmbeer]

There has never been a tv admission.


Boy o boy. You are one devious little fellow.
Dont answer a question with another one. Who cares if the British press was in or not.
The question is whether the US govt conspired 911.
Now please please pretty please come up with a plausible explanation for the BBC report.
Please.
You cant misread a report like that. No sketchiness involved. The press release NEVER changed - the reasons for collapse etc - its just that someone gave it to the BBC 25 minutes early.
And exactly what about the collapse did not look like a controlled demolition?

And as for Larry - please explain after watching:
www.youtube.com...

"we made the decision to pull and we watched the building come down"

[edit on 25/3/2008 by hmmmbeer]



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 08:01 PM
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hmmbeer...ever play the telephone game? you know...you take 10 or so people whisper a message into the first person's ear...and they whisper to the next person and so on? ever seen that message come out the same way it went in?

FDNY firefighter "Chief, I think that building is very unstable"

FDNY Chief "Building is unstable and looks like it might collapse"

NY Emergency Management "WTC 7 is going to come down too"

blah blah blah...

BBC stringer "FDNY expects WTC 7 to fall"

BBC studio to reporter on air "WTC 7 fell"



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
hmmbeer...ever play the telephone game? you know...you take 10 or so people whisper a message into the first person's ear...and they whisper to the next person and so on? ever seen that message come out the same way it went in?

FDNY firefighter "Chief, I think that building is very unstable"

FDNY Chief "Building is unstable and looks like it might collapse"

NY Emergency Management "WTC 7 is going to come down too"

blah blah blah...

BBC stringer "FDNY expects WTC 7 to fall"

BBC studio to reporter on air "WTC 7 fell"




You are kidding right?
Somebody issued a press release. Complete with explanation of why the building fell. No whipsers there mate.

Combined with Larrys admission, and the uncanny resemblance to a controlled demolition I think you had better have some deeper thoughts about this.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
hmmbeer...ever play the telephone game? you know...you take 10 or so people whisper a message into the first person's ear...and they whisper to the next person and so on? ever seen that message come out the same way it went in?

Please supply transcripts to prove that your fictional exchange took place and that's why the BBC report was made.

Speculation and hearsay is not evidence.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by tezzajw
 


Tezz... you are right. Here is what happened:

The NWO, CIA, Bush &Co, Skull&Bones, Jews, Zionists, Germans,or, Insert your suspect of the week here_________ Gave the script to the media outlets all over the world and said... ok... at 5:20 make sure you read this!

SHOOT!!! They said 5:20 not 5:00!!!! IDIOTS!!!!

The BBC and CNN blew their cover!!

Or maybe it happened like this:

the fire department has created a collapse zone, they fear WTC7 may fall....the media was hearing this for a few hours. Then they heard firefighters claiming that the building was "leaning" and "groaning" and "think it will be coming down". The media ran with it.. and reported it as collapsed.

ABC news (Peter Jennings i think) stated... "What we have feared all afternoon has happened." (not the exact quote, but after the collapse of WTC7)



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 09:36 PM
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Captain Obvious,

you too mate. Take a closer, holistic, open-minded analysis of what is being presented here.

The Tower 7 collapse has ALL the signs of a controlled demolition: squibs, little crack down the middle and then a near free-fall collapse into its own footprint.

Larry (bless his stupidity) Silverstein admits they pulled it and watched it come down. No pause between these statemetns: we made teh decision to pulland watched the building come down". No misinterpretation there. have you watched the video?

And how does hearsay turn into a report that a building HAS COLLAPSED with REASONS FOR THE COLLAPSE before it happens, esp when that building was not hit by a plane (although it did house many govt departments investing Enron etc - handy no?).

Please argue about these three points holistically. Lets talk probability.
There is a finite (eg > 0) chance that a ceramic cup which has crashed to the floor suddenly puts itself back together. However, it is highly improbable.

What is the probablity that Tower 7 was NOT preloaded with explosives, that Larry somehow was misunderstodd, and that the building, unlike any before or since, collapsed with all the signs of a controlled demolition. Only 25 minutes after a press release announcing its collapse. Very very improbable.

Biggest conpsiracy theor I ever heard is that 19 incomptetent muslims outsmarted the US military.

[edit on 25/3/2008 by hmmmbeer]



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
hmmbeer...ever play the telephone game? you know...you take 10 or so people whisper a message into the first person's ear...and they whisper to the next person and so on? ever seen that message come out the same way it went in?

Please supply transcripts to prove that your fictional exchange took place and that's why the BBC report was made.

Speculation and hearsay is not evidence.


And as we all know, everything anyone ever says is written down. Yes, I freely admit its supposition on my part.

But I can tell you belong to the "the media gets it right everytime" crowd.

I have news for you, in the rush to get the story out, the media can, and does, make mistakes in their reporting. Two examples off the top of my head

In 1981, Peter Jennings announced that Presidential Press Secretary Jim Brady had died of the gunshot wounds he received during the attempted assaination of President Reagan. Not ten minutes later, he was apologizing for jumping the gun, because Jim Brady was still alive and in surgery. In surgery....dead......yeah I can see those getting confused......

I dont quite remember the year for this one. But CNN was in the process of telling the world that President George Bush had died, when all he actually had done, was blow chunks all over the Japanese Prime Minister. This time, the engineers were faster on the draw and cut the anchor's mic before he said it.

So yes, it DOES happen. As it happened several times on 9/11.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by hmmmbeer

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
hmmbeer...ever play the telephone game? you know...you take 10 or so people whisper a message into the first person's ear...and they whisper to the next person and so on? ever seen that message come out the same way it went in?

FDNY firefighter "Chief, I think that building is very unstable"

FDNY Chief "Building is unstable and looks like it might collapse"

NY Emergency Management "WTC 7 is going to come down too"

blah blah blah...

BBC stringer "FDNY expects WTC 7 to fall"

BBC studio to reporter on air "WTC 7 fell"




You are kidding right?
Somebody issued a press release. Complete with explanation of why the building fell. No whipsers there mate.

Combined with Larrys admission, and the uncanny resemblance to a controlled demolition I think you had better have some deeper thoughts about this.


Yes, and we all know that the media (or other entities) does not ever prep news releases in anticipation.

Oh wait, there were stories a few months ago talking about how CNN (and others) already had Lindsey Lohan, and Britney Spears obituaries written (not to mention a few hundred other individuals).

In World War II, Ike drafted a press release taking full responsibility for the failure of the Normandy landings...

How many times in the past 10 years has a news agency hit the transmit button on a file and mistakenly told the world that someone had died?

Yes, by 3pm, FDNY, NYPD, PAPD were all sure that WTC 7 was going to collapse....so any newsman worth their ink, is going to have a boilerplate story ready to go....so he can beat the other guy.....



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999

Originally posted by hmmmbeer
You are kidding right?
Somebody issued a press release. Complete with explanation of why the building fell. No whipsers there mate.

Combined with Larrys admission, and the uncanny resemblance to a controlled demolition I think you had better have some deeper thoughts about this.


Yes, and we all know that the media (or other entities) does not ever prep news releases in anticipation.

Oh wait, there were stories a few months ago talking about how CNN (and others) already had Lindsey Lohan, and Britney Spears obituaries written (not to mention a few hundred other individuals).

In World War II, Ike drafted a press release taking full responsibility for the failure of the Normandy landings...

How many times in the past 10 years has a news agency hit the transmit button on a file and mistakenly told the world that someone had died?

Yes, by 3pm, FDNY, NYPD, PAPD were all sure that WTC 7 was going to collapse....so any newsman worth their ink, is going to have a boilerplate story ready to go....so he can beat the other guy.....


Give me a break.
And your thoughts about Larrys admission and the very-controlled-demolition like collapse of Tower 7.
And the odds of all 3 happening WITHOUT a conspiracy behind it.
Oh puleeease.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
But I can tell you belong to the "the media gets it right everytime" crowd.

Speculation about what I think, how I act or what crowd I belong to is off-topic and pointless. Stick to the topic, please.



So yes, it DOES happen. As it happened several times on 9/11.

Please provide specific examples of the several media reports that were made in error.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 01:12 AM
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Lets look at some basic facts about building 7.

1. Chief Nigro stated that he evacuated the firemen out of the building earlier in the day WITHOUT talking to anyone.

2. The only reason for the fire commander to make the call to Silverstein was to tell him that they could not save the building.

3. When the incident command decided to PULL IT they were talking about the building since the firemen were already out of the building.

4. A video shows hard hat workers coming out of the evacuated area around building 7 stating the building is going to come down, cops are also telling people the building is coming down and pushing them back away from the evacuation area.

5. We have reports from first responders hearing the countdown for building 7 over thier radios.

Oh and by the way both the BBC and CNN reported building 7 collapsed well before it actually did.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Lets look at some basic facts about building 7.

1. Chief Nigro stated that he evacuated the firemen out of the building earlier in the day WITHOUT talking to anyone.

2. The only reason for the fire commander to make the call to Silverstein was to tell him that they could not save the building.

3. When the incident command decided to PULL IT they were talking about the building since the firemen were already out of the building.

4. A video shows hard hat workers coming out of the evacuated area around building 7 stating the building is going to come down, cops are also telling people the building is coming down and pushing them back away from the evacuation area.

5. We have reports from first responders hearing the countdown for building 7 over thier radios.

Oh and by the way both the BBC and CNN reported building 7 collapsed well before it actually did.



Whether or not those are 'facts' is tough to prove, but the last fact is that there is no way of achieving this without pre-planed explosives.

Can you (or anyone) please point to an 'offical' document outlining how and why Tower 7 collapsed in the manner that it did?

When shown to most people, and anyone familar with building demolitions, they say it looks exactly like a controlled demolition.

With all this, and Larry saying, in one breath, wedmade the decision to pull and watched the building come down, it says clearly to me that there were pre-planted explosives in Tower 7.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by hmmmbeer
Whether or not those are 'facts' is tough to prove, but the last fact is that there is no way of achieving this without pre-planed explosives.


No not that tough to prove.

We have the statement from Chief Nigro about evacuating the firmen early in the day without talking to anyone.

Also of you know anything about emergency incident commad you would know that Silverstein had no authority over what was donw with the firemen, so the only reason for the call was to tell him they could not save the building.

We have the video of the hard hat workers coming out of the evacuated area.

We have the reports from first responder hearing a countdown over thier radios.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 03:49 AM
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Ultima1,

is there a chance you might actually stop avoiding issues and answer my questions. Please. Pretty please.

Such as:
...
Can you (or anyone) please point to an 'official' document outlining how and why Tower 7 collapsed in the manner that it did?

When shown to most people, and anyone familar with building demolitions, they say it looks exactly like a controlled demolition.

With all this, and Larry saying, in one breath, wedmade the decision to pull and watched the building come down, it says clearly to me that there were pre-planted explosives in Tower 7.
...



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 05:19 AM
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Originally posted by hmmmbeer

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by hmmmbeer

Boy o boy. You are one devious little fellow.

Yes, heaven forbid I post a reasonable explanation.


Dont answer a question with another one. Who cares if the British press was in or not.

Obviously you do or you wouldn't have brought it up.


The question is whether the US govt conspired 911.
Now please please pretty please come up with a plausible explanation for the BBC report.

I already did. Please re-read my post.


You cant misread a report like that. No sketchiness involved.

Of course you can. I've seen news reports make a lot of crazy claims especially in the early hours just after a major event.


The press release NEVER changed - the reasons for collapse etc - its just that someone gave it to the BBC 25 minutes early.

Prove someone with prior knowledge, gave them the report early.


And exactly what about the collapse did not look like a controlled demolition?

I already told you what about it didn't. Debris scattered everywhere.


And as for Larry - please explain after watching:
www.youtube.com...

"we made the decision to pull and we watched the building come down"

[edit on 25/3/2008 by hmmmbeer]

Yes and it meant to pull the people away from the building and let it fall. You've taken it out of context and as a matter of fact, that is what he himself has said regarding his statement.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 05:21 AM
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Originally posted by hmmmbeer

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999

You are kidding right?
Somebody issued a press release. Complete with explanation of why the building fell. No whipsers there mate.

Combined with Larrys admission, and the uncanny resemblance to a controlled demolition I think you had better have some deeper thoughts about this.


1. Are you seriously going to say that the press has never screwed up and posted the wrong information?

2. Larry has never admitted to being part of a CD of the building so using the word "admission" is silly.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 05:33 AM
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Originally posted by hmmmbeer
Captain Obvious,

you too mate. Take a closer, holistic, open-minded analysis of what is being presented here.

I think he is.


The Tower 7 collapse has ALL the signs of a controlled demolition:

OK present actual physical evidence to back up this idea.

squibs,

Define what a squib is and show me how it was used.


little crack down the middle

Show me the crack down the middle, what caused it, what structural changes occurred which made it necessary as part of your collapse model.


and then a near free-fall collapse into its own footprint.

1. Now it's "near" free fall speed.
2. Show me that it collapsed into it's own footprint and didn't drop debris into other buildings and surrounding streets.


Larry (bless his stupidity) Silverstein admits they pulled it and watched it come down.

Show me where he admits this. Also how do you respond to the statement he made which explains what he meant?


No pause between these statemetns: we made teh decision to pulland watched the building come down". No misinterpretation there. have you watched the video?

I've watched the video and you've taken it out of context in my opinion as well as Larry's.


And how does hearsay turn into a report that a building HAS COLLAPSED with REASONS FOR THE COLLAPSE before it happens, esp when that building was not hit by a plane (although it did house many govt departments investing Enron etc - handy no?).

This has already been explained to you, you just don't want to hear it.


Please argue about these three points holistically. Lets talk probability.
There is a finite (eg > 0) chance that a ceramic cup which has crashed to the floor suddenly puts itself back together. However, it is highly improbable.

There is a zero chance of a cup putting itself back together. It's not improbable but impossible. Don't know what a ceramic cup has to do with 9/11 but you still have your answer.


What is the probablity that Tower 7 was NOT preloaded with explosives, that Larry somehow was misunderstodd, and that the building, unlike any before or since, collapsed with all the signs of a controlled demolition. Only 25 minutes after a press release announcing its collapse. Very very improbable.

Fairly high as this is the most reasonable explanation.


Biggest conpsiracy theor I ever heard is that 19 incomptetent muslims outsmarted the US military.

[edit on 25/3/2008 by hmmmbeer]

You're making the assumption they were incompetent and that there were only 19. They came from a group of thousands and thousands of individuals which have been organized for quite some time. So no, it wasn't just 19 guys. It was 19 guys supported by thousands and thousands of other guys who financed, organized, gave support, etc.. to them. You should look at that part more holistically



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 05:40 AM
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jfj123,

Its ok.

Let me know when you get better and start thinking with your brain again.

Maybe you might even answer some of the questions I ask.

Until then, good bye.

I, unlike you, go to sleep knowing the truth. Its ugly and horrible, but its the truth. Your government conspired, totally and unequivocally to kill its own citizens.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by hmmmbeer

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Lets look at some basic facts about building 7.

1. Chief Nigro stated that he evacuated the firemen out of the building earlier in the day WITHOUT talking to anyone.

2. The only reason for the fire commander to make the call to Silverstein was to tell him that they could not save the building.

3. When the incident command decided to PULL IT they were talking about the building since the firemen were already out of the building.

4. A video shows hard hat workers coming out of the evacuated area around building 7 stating the building is going to come down, cops are also telling people the building is coming down and pushing them back away from the evacuation area.

5. We have reports from first responders hearing the countdown for building 7 over thier radios.

Oh and by the way both the BBC and CNN reported building 7 collapsed well before it actually did.



Whether or not those are 'facts' is tough to prove, but the last fact is that there is no way of achieving this without pre-planed explosives.

I bet their impossible to prove



Can you (or anyone) please point to an 'offical' document outlining how and why Tower 7 collapsed in the manner that it did?

I've posted the NIST interim reasoning for collapse. The final NIST report is due out this year sometime.


When shown to most people, and anyone familar with building demolitions, they say it looks exactly like a controlled demolition.

Well this isn't true as I've seen plenty of interviews with demolitions engineers and they say it DOESN'T look like a CD.


With all this, and Larry saying, in one breath, wedmade the decision to pull and watched the building come down, it says clearly to me that there were pre-planted explosives in Tower 7.

Well according to the person who made that statement, you are wrong.



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