9/11 What evidence would make you believe in a conspiracy?

Originally posted by plasmacutter
a black smith uses an open harth fueld by bellows pumping to create more qxygen come on now !!!!! an open air flame (no extra oxygen added ) can only burn so hot depending on whats burning jet fuel open air is only about 800 F jet fuel in a controlled burn is 1500 F (bellows pumping air or a turbine )

[edit on 22-3-2008 by plasmacutter]

Well we know windows were blown out of the building creating cross ventilation like a wind tunnel affect. If you've ever been outside of a building that tall, you'd know there is quite a lot of wind. So the enclosed building is the hearth and the high winds create the bellows effect. There's your comparison.



[edit on 22-3-2008 by jfj123]

jfj123 i like the fact that u keep thinking i love it real fun,

But the flames smoke was black cross wind or not the fuel was to rich to reach an efficient burn hence black smoke (in need more cross wind)

black smoke is a cooler fire it cant burn the carbon off( have u ever started ur torch with not enough oxy flowwing ??)

a fire hot enough to keep steel molten will not have black smoke

Originally posted by plasmacutter
jfj123 i like the fact that u keep thinking i love it real fun,

But the flames smoke was black cross wind or not the fuel was to rich to reach an efficient burn hence black smoke (in need more cross wind)

black smoke is a cooler fire it cant burn the carbon off( have u ever started ur torch with not enough oxy flowwing ??)

An oxygen poor fire is ONE cause for black smoke but plastics, rubber, etc. can burn as part of a larger, hotter fire yet still create black smoke.

Originally posted by plasmacutter
a fire hot enough to keep steel molten will not have black smoke

Create a really hot fire.
Pile a few car tires next to the really hot fire and light them.
The result is
A really hot fire and black smoke

no dought they would cause black smoke but not in a fir with enough cross wind to fan the jet fuel to keep it from bellowing black smoke!!!

those same objest with enough oxygen wont create black smoke (this was not ur back yard leaf pile burning o a fire place ,

and i dont think just the jet fuel was being bellowed and nothing else was.

Originally posted by plasmacutter
no dought they would cause black smoke but not in a fir with enough cross wind to fan the jet fuel to keep it from bellowing black smoke!!!

those same objest with enough oxygen wont create black smoke (this was not ur back yard leaf pile burning o a fire place ,

and i dont think just the jet fuel was being bellowed and nothing else was.

Of course there was more then the jet fuel. The building was full of combustable items.

black smoke regardless what is burning tires, paper ,lplastic , the SUN if in the right ratios U wont see black smoke

Black smoke isnt from the object burning its from lake of oxygen

reply to post by plasmacutter


newsimg.bbc.co.uk...

Looks like this one is almost completely out from lack of oxygen.

Are u serious ?? the flame is smokeing black smoke , and that metal isnt molten is it .
but I didnt say they where almost out from being starved of oxygen did I??

No i said that the very presense of black smoke means the flame is not burning hot enough or efficent enough to keep steel molten (like i said black smoke means a not fefficent burn not starved ).

And yes ur flame in that picture never got to 2800 F or the stell would have melted , my guess that that flame reached about 1700 or so but i havent seen any info on hat building burning(that steel frame is still standing in ur pic u see that right??

and i didnt see any flame that big that day either

wicked pic by the way nasty fire

[edit on 22-3-2008 by plasmacutter]

i take that back maybe that flame in ur pic reached 1800 or even 2100 i see white but still not hot enough over all to melt that structure so it stayed under 2800

Here's another photo showing black smoke and if you look close, you can see orange hot metal near the bottom of the picture.

cache.boston.com...

Sigh orange hot isnt molten , even a black smith when is forge welding still hase to bellow it ,when he pours a cast he hast to even bellow it more to get it molten .

red hot just means weaker steel not moltel

Originally posted by plasmacutter
Sigh orange hot isnt molten , even a black smith when is forge welding still hase to bellow it ,when he pours a cast he hast to even bellow it more to get it molten .

red hot just means weaker steel not moltel

I never said that the orange hot metal was molten. It is a good comparison for the few pictures showing WTC crews digging orange hot metal out of debris that obviously wasn't molten.

Sorry, I should have been more clear about that.

and like i said the fire that day wasnt big enough to cause enough beams to become red hot and wekend

show me a pic !!!!! of 4 inch thick and 2 inch thick and 6 inch thick metal turning mollten from a fire like that (

I will give you this yor picture had a better chance to produce any droplets of molten metal (which im sure ur fire didnt an way way less thick metal) than any fire on 9/11,And your fire was bigger than any on 9/11

reply to post by jfj123


did u see the molten metal it was glow yellow look in front of the fire truck its still liquid u cant see it ?? it shouldnt be there no flame that day reached that temp .

U do realize that a flame has to be maintaind at atleast 2800 F to keep stell molte right??

U do realize that once the flame reaches 2600_2750 depending on its carbon content it will solidfie ?? and turn what ever color the corrasponding temp is right ??


And U do realize that if just one or 2 beams became glow red and lost 50% of there strength there is 40 others to take the stress load off the weak beams ? and 120 outer beams to also help??

U do understand that right?

Because if u did i realy think u would answer ur own questi, im not saying the fire didnt get hot enough to create some stresses ,

but it clearly wasnt hot enough to bring any beam that day to a molten state ,and keep it molten after it fell 1000 feet and cooling all the way down.


not to mention the heat actualy required to get 46 beams of the core to reach even glow red to create a simutainious colapse like was told to all of us cant hoppen


This wasnt sheet metal this was high grade structural steel rated to withstand a temp of 2000 F for 2 hours without fire pfoofing

You havnt showd us not 1 comapeable situation yet

show ur flame turning 6,4,2 inch turning molten

Aww hell ill be nice show me UR style of flame turning 3/4 inch steel molten / I bet u cant do it Show me an open air flame melting 3/4 inch stell .

[edit on 22-3-2008 by plasmacutter]

And rember they where progresive buildings they got lighter as they went up,

So to be fair the steel around where the both planes hit was in the 3 to 4 inch range the 6 inch was way way down at the basement thats where the heavy heavy stuff was


Id suggest to all watch the( makeing of the twin towers an american icon)

It is just so friggin amazing the amount of concrete steel rebar sheet rock data wire paint that was in the building

Hell each floor was an acre(40,000 square feet) try to keep that heated and cooled and then do it 109 more times.