9/11 What evidence would make you believe in a conspiracy?

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by Disclosed
Anyone that challenges your views you will resort to name calling then? :

Well that seems to be the way you guys want it, since it started from you.

I don't remember being here when your persecution started. Perhaps you'd fare better with others if you treated them nicely instead of lumping them all into a group of enemies and treating them poorly?

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
So you're going to lump me into a category of people that have insulted you regardless of whether or not I have to make me fair game.

Well if you do not say anything to others about the attacks and insults only me, that tells me you must be on thier side.

1. I have said we should keep things civil.
2. If you attack someone, I'm not going to tell them not to defend themselves.

Ultima,

The reality is that many here have different opinions and views. The difference is how they handle themselves with those debates.

If you simply change your tact and be polite, people would give you more respect. You don't have to agree with someone to be polite. You've chosen to be obnoxious and that will eventually get you warned, ignored, banned.

If you really are here "looking for the truth" as you have claimed on MANY occasions, you wouldn't let personal grudges or feelings stand in the way so you would find a way to get along. Now if what you said is not true and you really AREN'T here "looking for the truth", and simply want confrontation, I would expect your current attitude to continue. In other words, you have a chance to prove why you're really here.
1. Find the truth as you've claimed.
2. TROLL

Your call from here my friend Show us all which is correct.

Take this quote to heart
"Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth, then lies". -F.N.

[edit on 1-6-2008 by jfj123]

[edit on 1-6-2008 by jfj123]

Sigh...

OK folks. We seem to have gotten Way off track here.

Although the attempts to point out that civility is preferred
are admirable, they are also Off Topic.

Please discuss the topic and not each other.

without dragging the whole thing over again , I`ll just say
that after the hundreds of videos and hundreds of web sites
all regarding 911,
my vote is

THE OFFICIAL STORY IS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT TRUE.

LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES on top of LIES

LIES + LIES X LIES = LIES

Actual evidence rather than pathetic fiction.

Originally posted by Straight Razor
Actual evidence rather than pathetic fiction.

I have been asking for actual evidence for years. But seems like the people that still beleive the official story are not looking for evidence because that might prove the officaial story wrong.



[edit on 2-6-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by ULTIMA1


ULTIMA, I will try to help you look for actual evidence. You say, just now, you 'have been [edit]...."asking"... for actual evidence for years'.

It seems, and no dis-respect....as I review your many posts....you always make that same claim...'looking for evidence'

But, when challenged to provide evidence, you hide behind the FOIA problem, the difficulty of getting the FOIA docs.

I am trying to be gentle here, not being accusatory....sometimes, you have found some FOIA info, true. But, so have others who post on this very thread.

As I have pointed out, I actually have NTSB reports of the AAL77 and UAL93 Auto-Flight and Navigational Performance data.

I believe I have mentioned this, not only on this thread, but on others....several times. However, not once have you asked me what I thought!

Since I am type-rated on the B757/767 I think I can contribute, with some knowledge and understanding, and have the ability to intrepret what non-pilots would not understand, when it comes to these reports from the NTSB.

Again, these various threads get confusing, when we try to post (juggle) so many. Perhaps what I just wrote, here, is inappropriate?

It probably belongs somewhere else....but, I just wanted to get your attention, perhaps it will work here, since I am usually ignored on the other pertinent threads.

adding....ULTIMA....you have enough ATS points, you can send a U2U, if you desired....



[edit on 6/2/0808 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
As I have pointed out, I actually have NTSB reports of the AAL77 and UAL93 Auto-Flight and Navigational Performance data.

And as i have pointed out, i have the data also from AA77 from the NTSB FOIA request.

Also i have stated that there at least 1 pilot (John Lear) has stated he believes the data has been corupted.

I have been and will keep posting facts and evidence as i find them.


[edit on 2-6-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by ULTIMA1


Yes, ULTIMA.....I have been around this issue with the famous Captain Lear, as pertains to AAL77. Because, he personally knew the Captain of AAL77, 'Chick' Burlingame.

Capt Lear asserts that Capt Burlingame is still alive. I have no way to refute that allegation. I do know that I personally attended the funeral for the FO of AAL77, David Charlebois. He was a Catholic, I went to the Mass at a Cathredal here in DC (I am not a Catholic, so I didn't pay attention to which church.....I went just to honor his death).

I also will be able to help you, if you wish, understand not only the AAL77 but the UAL93 info, per the NTSB reports.

Sidebar....the biggest contention, it seems as regards to AAL77, is the famous "Altimeter Setting" issue. Well, as I have already pointed out (somewhere) that is easily explained. Every beginning pilot knows about setting the Altimeter!!!

heck, I used to Instruct!! Even before we solo them, they know how to tune the ATIS!!!

But, let's ignore that, for the moment, and focus on AAL77. It departed Dulles (KIAD) (airport ELEV 313). The Pentagon is very close to National (KDCA) (airport ELEV 16).

BUT, the Pentagon's ELEV is different than the KDCA airport's. The Pentagon is built on a rise....it's obvious when you drive, here, in DC.

My point is....every student pilot is taught how to set the Altimeter. From the ATIS.

In the USA, we use 'Flight Levels' above 18,000 feet. EXCEPT, when the atmospheric pressure is particularly low, then the "lowest usable Flight Level" will be 19,000 (or FL 190)

Sorry if this seems too much info. Pilots just understand, through experience. It takes time to explain, to non-pilots.

When in the 'flight levels' (again, in the US, above 18,000 feet). It varies by country, though, depending on the terrain. For example, in the UK, we switch to FL at 4,000 feet. Meaning, the altimeters are set to 29.92 while climbing above 4,000 feet. So, in the UK, you will be cleared, by ATC, to 'Climb to and maintain Level 50' (when the pressure is very low, then that 'transition level', as it's called, will vary, just as in the US)

Back to the topic....according to the METARS I have seen at KDCA, the Altimeter Setting was between 30.21 and 30.22....so, even though the Altimeters would have been set to 29.92, as they climbed through 18,000 feet, by the real pilots.....it is only a 300 foot difference, based on prevailing atmospheric pressure.

If you're in the clouds, flying IFR.....then that is important. If you're intending on suicide, and flying visually.....not so important.

But, as I've said, it is usually a habit to find out the local Altimeter Setting. These hijackers were pilots....couple of hundred hours....they learned how to set their Altimeters in the first few hours of learning how to fly.

LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES on top of LIES

LIES + LIES X LIES = LIES .

I`m enjoying myself too much today....

look... debating with a bunch of shills is pointless to say the least.

shills only LIE

he he...... I`m havin way too much fun......try and stop me.....he he he

you know what?.........chicken butt.... he he

Acting silly is actually more productive than talkin to SHILLS.

911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB......................ITS OFFICIAL

well of course it is..... everyone already knows...
but for some odd reason the news won`t tell us.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
thats odd.......

even the officials say its official and still .... not a word in the news....

ya I`m gonna go home thinking "your government loves you"
he he .....NOT.....
911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB......................ITS OFFICIAL

Its Official ????

well sure it is ....everyone knows...
like when I say everyone I mean like practically
EVERYONE IN THE WHOLE WORLD.
except for the morons and the shills.

hmmm sounds like a song..."The morons and the Shills.....

911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB......................ITS OFFICIAL

because me and 90% of the world say so...thats why

At least your post went straight to the madness, and didn't dance around it pretending to be reason. For this, I thank you.

Signed,
Moron and Shill

reply to post by _Del_


DEL......I suggested (on some other thread) that 'sarcasm' be added to the T&Cs at ATS. I retract that notion, now....officially!!

Because you just perfected it!!! excellent!!

reply to post by Maya432


CHECK THIS OUT!!!!!!! Go to facebook and type in Bowman Namwob in the search box top left of screen and then click it!! GET THE WORD OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by weedwhacker
As I have pointed out, I actually have NTSB reports of the AAL77 and UAL93 Auto-Flight and Navigational Performance data.

And as i have pointed out, i have the data also from AA77 from the NTSB FOIA request.

Also i have stated that there at least 1 pilot (John Lear) has stated he believes the data has been corupted.

I have been and will keep posting facts and evidence as i find them.


[edit on 2-6-2008 by ULTIMA1]

I would suggest finding another pilots name to drop for credibility purposes. The one you chose believes the hologram plane theory, alien moon bases, the gas giant planets in our solar system are not gas giants and also are inhabited by alien races, etc...

reply to post by weedwhacker


Well I, at least, am not afraid to ask you about those reports
John Lear's point about the altitude doesn't hold up under close scrutiny, even by an earthbound individual such as myself. Altimeter settings being adjusted to local barometric pressure is something you really need to know about before leaving the runway for the first time.

Have you noticed any irregularities or inconsistencies?

Oh and thanks again for for your valuable expert input here

[edit on 2/6/2008 by Pilgrum]

reply to post by jfj123


jfj....you misunderstood me.....I didn't drop JL's name as a compliment to him.

Thank you for pointing out some of the things he 'believes' in....

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by scottie18
Yes you have answered questions, not the questions
[edit on 30-5-2008 by scottie18]

So you admit i answered questions but yet you still attack and insult me.

I guess you are not that big of a man.

I guess your definition of being a man is to be a liar and a coward...since you seem to think you are a man.

Pathetic.

reply to post by ULTIMA1



Given a choice between incompetent government employees pulling off such a feat or the gullibility of people I think people's gullibility is more likely than government competence.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Sorry if this seems too much info. Pilots just understand, through experience. It takes time to explain, to non-pilots.

Please do not try to talk down to me. Yes i understand, as stated that pilots go by what they have trained to go the instruments.

As stated and shown pilots my know what instuments tell them but usually do not know about the inner workings of a aircraft.

Do you have any evidence, beside your opinion that Mr. Lear is not correct in his statement?



[edit on 2-6-2008 by ULTIMA1]