9/11 What evidence would make you believe in a conspiracy?

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posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:04 AM
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What evidence would make you believe that the United States government was directly involved in planning and carrying out 9/11? Although I have read and posted in many 9/11 threads, I have never seen actual evidence showing the government was involved. I have read about suspicion and lack of evidence to suggest implied guilt but that in and of itself is not evidence.

Please feel free to:
1. Describe what level of evidence is necessary for you to believe in a conspiracy.
2. Post any real evidence you have so others who do not have access to it, can re-examine their answer to the above question.

Again, feel free to post real evidence so we can give a better informed answer to the question but when posting, please show the source of the evidence so we can give it the weight it deserves as opposed to hearsay.

Also, please DON'T just post links and tell people to go look. Tell us what we are going to find at those links and expound on why you want us to got there and look.

I know these threads can get pretty heated so please treat others the way you want to be treated.


[edit on 16-3-2008 by jfj123]

[edit on 16-3-2008 by jfj123]




posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


To answer my own question, I would need to treat it like a courtroom trial. I would consider the government innocent until proven guilty.

I would accept testimony of the conspirators.
Physical evidence from the crime scenes.
Proof of complicity to cover up, alter, or destroy evidence.

Obviously even if there was a conspiracy, we would never hear Bush come out and admit to it so asking for that type of evidence might be a bit silly.



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by jfj123
reply to post by jfj123
 
Proof of complicity to cover up, alter, or destroy evidence.


www.mikehersh.com...

www.wanttoknow.info...



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:20 AM
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The only evidence I need is the video clip from the pentagon, which does not show a large passenger jet aircraft, plowing into the pentagon. All it shows is a missile/small aircraft. that alone is reasonable doubt to the governments official report/story. Well, that and there was no wreckage from a 757/767 at the pentagon, oh that perfect hole in the c ring too. I doubt a vaporized plane could pull that off, but I'd guess a cruise missile could.



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by jfj123
What evidence would make you believe that the United States government was directly involved in planning and carrying out 9/11?


Well i do not have evidence (yet) of the governemnt being directly involved but i have aleady posted evidnece that they had lots of warnings and could have stopped it.

Also the government should release videos, photos, reports and evidence so it does not appear that they are covering up.



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by saturnsrings
The only evidence I need is the video clip from the pentagon, which does not show a large passenger jet aircraft, plowing into the pentagon.

Could you please post the video? The only video I've seen is the CCTV video which showed nothing traveling through the field of vision as it was between frames.


Well, that and there was no wreckage from a 757/767 at the pentagon,

I have seen photos of crash debris at the pentagon. What would you suggest about those photos?
example:
files.abovetopsecret.com...


oh that perfect hole in the c ring too. I doubt a vaporized plane could pull that off, but I'd guess a cruise missile could.

What is this belief based on? What have you seen that you can use as a comparison?

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I believe you've made some interesting points that have brought these questions to my attention. Thanks for your help.



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
What evidence would make you believe that the United States government was directly involved in planning and carrying out 9/11?


Well i do not have evidence (yet) of the governemnt being directly involved but i have aleady posted evidnece that they had lots of warnings and could have stopped it.

The government itself has stated that they F-ed up and that there were plenty of signs they should have seen. Massive incompetence rarely turns out well.


Also the government should release videos, photos, reports and evidence so it does not appear that they are covering up.

I agree. I would like to see 100% disclosure to the American public.



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by jfj123
The government itself has stated that they F-ed up and that there were plenty of signs they should have seen. Massive incompetence rarely turns out well.


If it was all just one big "goof" by the Bush Administration, why are they all still in power? Why did many within the Administration get promotions after 9/11?

Read my two links, and tell me the Bush Administration didn't go out of their way to allow an attack. Tell me the Bush Administration didn't try to cover-up what happened that day.

If there is nothing to hide, why is it hidden?



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by Double Eights

Originally posted by jfj123
The government itself has stated that they F-ed up and that there were plenty of signs they should have seen. Massive incompetence rarely turns out well.


If it was all just one big "goof" by the Bush Administration, why are they all still in power? Why did many within the Administration get promotions after 9/11?

I would venture to guess it's just like any other big business in that if you have powerful friends, you are safe. It's a classic example of The Old Boys Network.



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:51 AM
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As for you indepth answer you want i don't have for you because:

A Conspiracy is a Idea, Opinion of a event that has happened and no "Hard Evidence" to colaberate the story.

I myself do not believe it was the government involved in the 9/11 attacks but that of the Elitist who are working towards a NWO. It is more than obvious that alot of the stuff in the Offical report does not add up. Therefore leaving questions to be asked.

There will be no Evidence strong enough to prove this because the "sheep of the world" find it easier to live in ignorance than the truth, just because it is easier to go on with there day to day lives.

I believe there are people out there that will take the time to try and prove it to you.

Now my question to you OP is:

1) With all of the questions that surround this conspiracy, what proves that there was nothing else to the 9/11 attacks?

2) Do you know anything at all about the Elitist that control our everyday lives?

3) With the North American properganda that we recieve from our authority's why does anyone believe what we are told? Is it because we are programed to believe what we are told by the news and authority's?

History is written by the Victor's of war. The German population was told Poland attack Germany in WWII, so what is true is only to be known by the people who were there. Listen the the FD/PD eye witness testimony, that alone is enough for me. Why would this men and women lie about what the heard and saw when so many of there comrades were killed.



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by jfj123
 
You can find pictures and videos of everything I said, on the pages of ats, if you want to see them just let your fingers do the clicking.



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


There is plenty of evidence to suggest multiple governments were involved in the 911 attacks, whether in the planning or execution stage.

I have started a thread on that very subject, but its nowhere near complete.

I have at least one source mentioning the FBI suppressing information regarding the 911 attacks, but so far I don't have physical proof the US government was involved.

However, there's more evidence than hearsay to implicate ISI, Mossad, and possibly others in the attacks.

There is no way these agencies could have been operating in the US in such large numbers without US help or negligence.

Our government was involved whether we want to believe it or not. Its a bit scary, but several laws to help you understand what kind of leaders we have include The Patriot Act which is a response to the 911 attacks.

There's also the Patriot Act 2 and the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention bill.

Why would the government need to pass these laws? To protect us? No. They do not care. They want more and more power. More and more control.

The Homegrown terrorism bill is for revolutionaries sick of the fascist federalist control of the world. The government can now incriminate pretty much anyone on ATS for speaking against the government.

We are all criminals now.

In my opinion, the increasing government security could only have happened after a false flag (or "real") terrorist attack.

The government needed a reason to invade Afghanistan and Iraq. That's two smoking guns right there.

We just don't have the physical evidence (well most of us anyway). If you research the money laundering done prior to 911 there's overwhelming evidence that Wall Street was involved.

This is not simply a cut and dry case here. There are many many elements involved and we are only scratching the surface.



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by Spaxz
As for you indepth answer you want i don't have for you because:

A Conspiracy is a Idea, Opinion of a event that has happened and no "Hard Evidence" to colaberate the story.

But for it to be reasonably true, there must be some factually based information available. If not, it's like believing in Santa Claus.


I myself do not believe it was the government involved in the 9/11 attacks but that of the Elitist who are working towards a NWO. It is more than obvious that alot of the stuff in the Offical report does not add up. Therefore leaving questions to be asked.

What in the official reports, do not add up and why?


There will be no Evidence strong enough to prove this because the "sheep of the world" find it easier to live in ignorance than the truth, just because it is easier to go on with there day to day lives.

I think if someone could provide any reasonable amount of evidence, alot of people would change their opinions.


I believe there are people out there that will take the time to try and prove it to you.

Although I am not looking for proof, only evidence, I would greatly appreciate it if they did.


Now my question to you OP is:

1) With all of the questions that surround this conspiracy, what proves that there was nothing else to the 9/11 attacks?

PROOF is a strong word. I will say that the lack of evidence to support there was anything more to to the 9/11 attack, makes me believe the basic official story-Al Queda terrorists plotted and carried out the attacks.


2) Do you know anything at all about the Elitist that control our everyday lives?

No. Who are they? How do you know who they are? How exactly do they control our daily lives in relation to 9/11?


3) With the North American properganda that we recieve from our authority's why does anyone believe what we are told?

I don't believe most of what we're told from the government. My thought is that they're too incompetent to pull off something of this magnitude.


Is it because we are programed to believe what we are told by the news and authority's?

I don't believe the majority of what I hear from either.



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by saturnsrings
reply to post by jfj123
 
You can find pictures and videos of everything I said, on the pages of ats, if you want to see them just let your fingers do the clicking.



I was hoping to have the discussion on this thread. That's why I was asking that people post their information here. Thanks anyway though.



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123
What in the official reports, do not add up and why?


Everything in the report doesn't add up. It's completely full of lies, half-truths, omissions, fallacies, misconception's, cover-ups, etc.. I won't go into detail, as there are plenty of threads on ATS that you can find which will tell you.


I think if someone could provide any reasonable amount of evidence, alot of people would change their opinions.


You can't provide evidence that is locked away in storage, most likely never to be seen by the US populace. And then when that slight chance the information will be released, it turns out the building catches on fire and everything inside is destroyed.


PROOF is a strong word. I will say that the lack of evidence to support there was anything more to to the 9/11 attack, makes me believe the basic official story-Al Queda terrorists plotted and carried out the attacks.


What makes you think we will ever get proof? It's been over 40 years since JFK was assassinated, and we still don't have any PROOF that it was a conspiracy. However, you ask anyone what they think, and they will tell you Oswald wasn't the sole gunman.


No. Who are they? How do you know who they are? How exactly do they control our daily lives in relation to 9/11?


Endgame....watch it. You will be given a partial list of the "Elites," and how they do what they do. Search NWO quotes on ATS, and you'll learn more about who the "Elites" are.


I don't believe most of what we're told from the government. My thought is that they're too incompetent to pull off something of this magnitude.


Yeah, their so incompetant that they managed to pass laws that strip away civil liberties from the American people, without ANY complications. So incompetant that they passed legislation that merged the USA/Canada/Mexico together, again without ANY complication. Just because Bush sounds like a moron on television, doesn't mean the people behind closed doors are just as stupid.



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by jfj123
 


I'm not that great in replying to posts like you are but in my reply Santa Clause is a Conspiracy with kids.lol.

As for your questions there is no real hard evidence to 9/11 because it was all destroyed by our government right after it was cleaned up.

If you don't know about the Elitist you should watch ENDGAME, it is a great introduction to them. But the documentry has alot of theory involved. If you read Daniel Estulin book "The True Story of the Bilderberg Group" you will learn alot in how they do it. It is too complex for me to try and explain on this thread without leaving some holes in it. It is fact of what they are trying to accomplish, and the supposit government is smart enough to pull of 9/11, and one good proof of that is you already believe there incompetent when there not. These people are Master of Pychological warfare and have learned alot about past empires trying to rule the world, and my hat goes off to them and so far it's working. They have been at work for this for decades and only in the last 10yrs have they been more and more talked about and because of that they are speeding up there process, hence 9/11. This is a topic that i know alot about but don't bother talking about on here because there is to much to say about it. "They" are genuises



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123 I have seen photos of crash debris at the pentagon.


Yes there are photos of parts but no reports matching these parts to Flight 77.



Originally posted by jfj123 Massive incompetence rarely turns out well.


Well if agencies like NORAD were incompetent why was no one fired? In fact people at NORAD were promoted and given awards.



[edit on 16-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by Double Eights
Originally posted by jfj123
What in the official reports, do not add up and why?

Everything in the report doesn't add up. It's completely full of lies, half-truths, omissions, fallacies, misconception's, cover-ups, etc.. I won't go into detail, as there are plenty of threads on ATS that you can find which will tell you.

So if it's so black and white, why hasn't anyone, even Rosie O'Donnell simply show the evidence on TV so we can put everyone in jail? You stated that the WHOLE report is a lie. This should be very easy to PROVE.


I think if someone could provide any reasonable amount of evidence, alot of people would change their opinions.

You can't provide evidence that is locked away in storage, most likely never to be seen by the US populace. And then when that slight chance the information will be released, it turns out the building catches on fire and everything inside is destroyed.

If nobody has seen the evidence, then we don't even know if there is any right? If we don't even know whether or not evidence exists, we don't know whether or not there has been a conspiracy.


PROOF is a strong word. I will say that the lack of evidence to support there was anything more to to the 9/11 attack, makes me believe the basic official story-Al Queda terrorists plotted and carried out the attacks.

What makes you think we will ever get proof?

Nothing, you used the word in your previous post. I was expounding on that.


No. Who are they? How do you know who they are? How exactly do they control our daily lives in relation to 9/11?

Endgame....watch it. You will be given a partial list of the "Elites," and how they do what they do. Search NWO quotes on ATS, and you'll learn more about who the "Elites" are.

So a show called Endgame describes a supposed group of people. Is there real evidence of this or is it just more supposition?


I don't believe most of what we're told from the government. My thought is that they're too incompetent to pull off something of this magnitude.

Yeah, their so incompetant that they managed to pass laws that strip away civil liberties from the American people, without ANY complications. So incompetant that they passed legislation that merged the USA/Canada/Mexico together, again without ANY complication. Just because Bush sounds like a moron on television, doesn't mean the people behind closed doors are just as stupid.

And the fact that you even know about these items of legislation means they're not that bright. The fact that they keep getting caught doing things tells me they're not that bright. The fact that the Bush Administrations approval rating is under 20% tells me the people behind the scenes aren't that bright. Look if you want to pull something over on the public, the last thing you want is that they're unhappy. If they're kept happy, they won't look at what you're doing so closely.


[edit on 16-3-2008 by jfj123]



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123 I have seen photos of crash debris at the pentagon.


Yes there are photos of parts but no reports matching these parts to Flight 77.



Originally posted by jfj123 Massive incompetence rarely turns out well.


Well if agencies like NORAD were incompetent why was no one fired? In fact people at NORAD were promoted and given awards.



[edit on 16-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]


For the same reason I explained before. If you have powerful friends, you are safe. Remember the moron in charge of FEMA? The incompetent moron who couldn't even organize a peanut butter and jelly sandwich? Bush actually got on TV and said he was doing a good job.

The Old Boys Network is alive and well in politics.

The world isn't a fair place.



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123 For the same reason I explained before. If you have powerful friends, you are safe.


Problem is that an angeny like NORAD is held responsable for protecting lives, so they can be held accountable.

The other side of that is that government and military people getting punished or fired for speaking out against the official story.





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