How many warnings were needed to raise security

We have lots of evidecne or proir warnings of 9/11. Why wasn't security raised?

cicentre.com...

Early '01 Memo Warned of Al Qaeda Threat
….The memo, from former counterterrorism chief Richard A. Clarke to then-national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, had been described during the hearings, but its full contents had not been disclosed…..(Reuters, 12 Feb 05)

Bush team tried to suppress pre-9/11 report into al-Qa'ida
Federal officials were repeatedly warned in the months before the 11 September 2001 terror attacks that Osama bin Laden and al-Qa'ida were planning aircraft hijackings and suicide attacks, according to a new report that the Bush administration has been suppressing….(Belfast Telegraph, 11 Feb 05)

Terror warnings to FAA detailed
The Federal Aviation Administration received repeated warnings in the months prior to Sept. 11, 2001….(AP, 11 Feb 05)

Memo warned Bush of al Qaeda threat
A newly released memo warned the White House at the start of the Bush
administration that al Qaeda represented a threat throughout the Islamic world, a warning that critics said went unheeded by President George W. Bush until the September 11, 2001, attacks….(Reuters, 11 Feb 05)

Sept 11 warnings ignored: report
United States aviation officials failed to respond to dozens of warnings of a possible terrorist threat months before September 11, 2001, according to a previously undisclosed report by the panel that probed the attacks….(Reuters, 11 Feb 05)

FAA ignored pre-9/11 terror alerts
In the months before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, federal aviation officials reviewed dozens of intelligence reports that warned about Osama bin Laden and al- Qaeda, some of which specifically discussed airline hijackings and suicide operations, according to a previously undisclosed report from the 9/11 commission…..(New York Times, 10 Feb 05)

9/11 Commission: FAA Was Alerted to Potential Attacks
Federal Aviation Administration officials received 52 warnings ….(AP, 10 Feb 05)

9/11 Report Cites Warnings About Hijackings
U.S. aviation officials failed to respond to dozens of warnings….(Reuters, 10 Feb 05)

9/11 could have been stopped if the security was raised since the some of the hijackers were flagged at the airport and still were left get on the planes.

cicentre.com...

5 hijackers flew despite red flags
By 7:35 a.m. on Sept. 11, 2001, all five hijackers on American Airlines Flight 77 had been tagged by a passenger pre-screening program as "a risk to aircraft safety," and four had set off magnetometer alarms at airport checkpoints, according to staff reports presented yesterday to the independent 9/11 panel.....(Newsday, 28 Jan 04)

Yeah, all that just goes against the "strong on national security" BS you hear from the Right in America.

So many warnings about what was going to happen but it seems nobody really thought it could happen on the scale they were warned about.
I know the U.S must get threats from all kinds of terrorist groups and can't look into them all as it would take to long but when more than 1 country says something big is going happen you have to take notice.

Originally posted by rhynouk
I know the U.S must get threats from all kinds of terrorist groups and can't look into them all as it would take to long but when more than 1 country says something big is going happen you have to take notice.

Yes, in this case we had many reports from several contries and from several intell agencies, enough to at least raise security.

Also NSA had been listening to OBLs satellite phone untill the media released a story that NSA could listen, he stopped using it the next day.

If security had been raised at the airports the hijackers probably would not have made it onto the planes.


[edit on 16-3-2008 by ULTIMA1]

cicentre.com...

F.A.A. Alerted On Qaeda in '98, 9/11 Panel Said
American aviation officials were warned as early as 1998 that Al Qaeda could "seek to hijack a commercial jet and slam it into a U.S. landmark," according to previously secret portions of a report prepared last year by the Sept. 11 commission…..(New York Times, 14 Sep 05)

It's as if there is a hear what you only want to hear. Or... Maybe sources to that pre-info wouldnt reveal how they got it. Or... Sources were revealed to the pre-info, but the info was still ignored on purpose.

Terrorists are inside and outside the goverment that function together best to their ability.

Originally posted by Mabus
Sources were revealed to the pre-info, but the info was still ignored on purpose..

Yes, more and more it seems like the government either ignored the information or used it to their advantadge.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
If security had been raised at the airports the hijackers probably would not have made it onto the planes.

Yes, they still probably would have. When you raise security at the airport you increase the scrutiny at the checkpoint. That would have meant they would have had security like we do now. ID cards matching tickets, etc. The razors, box cutters and knives were all allowed to go on the plane. IF there were any explosives, and it wasn't just a box they SAID had explosives, it probably wouldn't have mattered, because there are several explosives that would go through a checkpoint x-ray and the screener wouldn't even bat an eye when they saw it. You give the lead person one part, someone else another, etc, so it's not all in one bag, and you'll almost definitely get it through as long as you don't act suspicious.

You might want to edit your last post, Zaphod.

Great thread Ultima! Considering they'd pulled some of these guys over, I do wonder just how they continued through security, especially if there was info that something might happen.

Do you know if any of those stopped at security had anything that could be used as a weapon on them?

[edit on 12-4-2008 by mirageofdeceit]

Uhm, do you have any idea where I was on 9/11? At that point I was a security screener/supervisor with three years under my belt. At 345am I got called that this had happened, and headed in to work. For the next two months I was putting in 12-14 hour days trying to keep equipment running and searching planes (with 5 people). Our first day off was 3 1/2 weeks later.

We had to be at the airport at 3am to start searching planes at 330 to have the first ones ready to go at 5am. We would get done searching about 1-2pm after doing 15-20 planes depending on the day (717s, MD-80s, and DC-10s). After THAT we split into teams. One group took all the Explosive Trace Detectors and figured out which were down, and what they needed, and did the routine maintenance. The other group took the x-rays and walkthrough metal detectors and figured out if they were all ok, and took care of any problems with them. Then we had to brief the FAA every day about what was going on.

I think it's safe to say I know what the regulations were if we had heightened security prior to that day. As far as weapons go, as I have stated repeatedly any knife or blade under 4 inches was permitted on the plane. Under heightened rules, we took out knives, but not certain other blades or sharps. We wouldn't have let batteries through, and we would have searched electronics more closely. I stand by what I said earlier, they PROBABLY would have still gotten on the planes.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Yes, they still probably would have.

No, i am talking about the hijackers that were flagged and then let get on the plane. Not about the box cutters.

If securityt was raised the hijackers that were flagged would have gone through more then just the basic security questions.



[edit on 12-4-2008 by ULTIMA1]

So am I. They would have gone through a secondary screening, and unless something REALLY suspicious, or something wrong came up then they would have been allowed to board the plane still. All it would have done would be to get them looked at a little closer, and there was nothing suspicious enough about them to keep them from boarding the flight.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
So am I. They would have gone through a secondary screening, and unless something REALLY suspicious,

But if they would have looked closer they might have found somethign suspicious, like no fly list.


[edit on 12-4-2008 by ULTIMA1]

The no fly list prior to 9/11 was made up of suspected terrorists and criminals that were considered too dangerous to fly. Prior to 9/11 every intelligence agency had their OWN no fly list, and good luck trying to get it from them to make a coherent list. So if the name was on the CIA list, but not the FBI list, then the airlines may or may not get it, but I'd say probably not. So again, even if they DID check the closer, they PROBABLY would have still gotten on the planes. And even if they stopped one or two, by the time they got anything out of them it would be far too late.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
The no fly list prior to 9/11 was made up of suspected terrorists and criminals that were considered too dangerous to fly.

But CAAPs did pick out a few of them as being a danger.

ULTIMA1

You know what really spells out the "BULL" coming from the GOV?

The fact that Bin Laden (The Star Witness of the Gov), has said that only a few "knew" of his plot and the hijackers themselves were only told the "plan" right before they boarded the planes!!

The next question of course would be, if Bin Laden didn't really tell that many people, then how on earth could have that many Intel Agencies have "known" something was coming down the pipe>?

Either way, the whole story is messed and makes no sense.


Here is the quote from OSAMA

archives.cnn.com...

UBL: The brothers, who conducted the operation, all they knew was that they have a martyrdom operation and we asked each of them to go to America but they didn't know anything about the operation, not even one letter. But they were trained and we did not reveal the operation to them until they are there and just before they boarded the planes.

UBL: We were at a camp of one of the brother's guards in Qandahar. This brother belonged to the majority of the group. He came close and told me that he saw, in a dream, a tall building in America, and in the same dream he saw Mukhtar teaching them how to play karate. At that point, I was worried that maybe the secret would be revealed if everyone starts seeing it in their dream. So I closed the subject. I told him if he sees another dream, not to tell anybody, because people will be upset with him. (Another person's voice can be heard recounting his dream about two planes hitting a big building).

So with such secrecy in "CAVES" then it is beyond the belief of rational people to assume this got leaked out all over different INTEL AGENCIES across the globe.

But, if one were to subscribe to the OFFICIAL TALE, then this is what they would have to believe.

CAAPS is just like the current no fly list. It picked out a lot of people as being a danger when they weren't. It would hit on similar names, or any number of things. In fact the current system is still CAAPS, just "modified" some.

Originally posted by talisman
The next question of course would be, if Bin Laden didn't really tell that many people, then how on earth could have that many Intel Agencies have "known" something was coming down the pipe>?

Well maybe becasue agencies like NSA were listening to his satellite phone, up untill the media came out with the fact that NSA could listen to his phone. He stopped using it the next day.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
CAAPS is just like the current no fly list. It picked out a lot of people as being a danger when they weren't. It would hit on similar names, or any number of things. In fact the current system is still CAAPS, just "modified" some.

But the point remains that it still picked them out and if they would have been screened better (like if security was raised) they might have found something to hold them on.


[edit on 12-4-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by ULTIMA1



Exactly, the point Ultima! If they are listening in, then they would have known what was coming down, then its cased closed. They allowed this to happen.

Originally posted by talisman
Exactly, the point Ultima! If they are listening in, then they would have known what was coming down, then its cased closed. They allowed this to happen.

Well its no different then things like Pearl harbor and the USS Liberty.