Chinese Security Forces Swarm Tibet

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posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:04 PM
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There is a midnight Monday deadline for Tibetan protesters to turn themselves in to police. I have yet to find specifics on what the or else scenario is.

China Denies Using Lethal Force in Tibet


There are sharply conflicting estimates of the death toll in Tibet. The Chinese government has confirmed only 10 fatalities, most of whom it described as "innocent civilians" who burned to death in fires set by Tibetan "vandals”. In addition it says 12 police officers were seriously injured.

However, the Tibetan government in exile in Dharamsala, northern India, said it had confirmed reports of 80 deaths and 72 injuries. Most of the casualties, it said, were Tibetan protesters shot by police.


And Witness, I too am interested in learning about the net restrictions active now for users from China. I also read in one of the ATS threads that youtube was being blocked. Looking forward to what you learn. (Reaches over...grabs a roll...and breaks bread.) Nite.

Peace




posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:06 PM
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I'm hoping the Buhdist monks and everyone else will be alright.The Olympics will be interesting.



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by WraothAscendant
reply to post by Witness2008
 


For all we know the Chinese nationals here are agents for their government.
I have talked to a few and they have A VERY set view and cannot be told that their government is just as bent as everyone else's.
Most I've talked to seem to think the sun rises and sets in their leader's arses.

[edit on 16-3-2008 by WraothAscendant]


Ah, thanks for pointing that out.

We are human, and therefore we are all very ignorant of our own nation's corruption. This holds true for Chinese, Tibetans, the Americans, and every other human being.

I hope that one day we can evolve out of this blinding, misleading blanket which was put over our eyes by our very own parents out of a pure, stubborn sense of nationality passed down from generation to generation.

I can tell you from personal experience that most of the Chinese I have met are very proud of their country's long history. That's not exactly a bad thing to honor your heritage and ancestry but some people take a bit too far.

But as for people on these forums being Chinese government agents, I seriously doubt that. First let's establish the fact that there are quite a many Chinese people in the U.S., right? Over a billion in the entire world. Next let's establish that Chinese people use the internet and browse forums. They've probably been on these forums for a long time, you just didn't know they were Chinese (why would you anyway?). This thread's title attracted lots of Chinese. As I said earlier, everyone will jump to their country's defense as soon as an insult or some bad comment to it is passed. There you go, that's why there are so many Chinese people posting here in defense of their country, just as any American would do for the U.S. as well.

~Greg



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:15 PM
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to all the posters above.

i am an ordinary person. the idea of some kind of agent is really ridiculous. not worthy of refuting.

everybody in china can access this website freely, including reuters, bbc, or any other medias.

as for the internal issues of China, you foreigners really cant understand them clearly. so what you said, friendly or not, doesnt matter. i just want to do some communication. i think its interesting.

yes, i agree to one of the posters above all right, all of us should jump out the well to see the real world outside, so i log on this site.

maybe you mistake China as the north korea. such time has passed and will never return.

i never mean that chinese government is angelic . no country is paradise.
also. no country can endure the collapse of unity and solidarity.



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by GoldenGalaxy
reply to post by wwssii
 


You're wrong my brainwashed-by-propaganda friend.
Tibet was a sovereign nation until 1957.
And the rewriting of history to justify the slaughter of innocent
Tibetans means China has lost face and has no integrity.
China did not govern Tibet in the T'ang dynasty not in the Sung
dynasty, nor the Ming nor the Chop Suey Dynasty. The Tang Dynasty
was over 1,000 years ago during a time when even all of China
like it's neighbor Japan was made up of Feudal Kingdoms.

Why has there been 14 Dalai Lamas in succession ruling Tibet for
the last 10 centuries or so? The Tibetans followed their leader
the Dalai Lama for all these centuries. That is why China has
made a law that Tibetans cannot even own a photo of the
Dalai Lama. China is afraid because the Dalai Lama uses
the most powerful weapon in the galaxy and that weapon is
WISDOM and COMPASSION!!!
China has always been defeated by the Dalai Lama's wisdom.
China uses poison, torture, cruelty and therefore is already
defeated by it's own negative actions. Any soldier that hurts
a monk will be reborn as a dung beetle or a cockroach. What
can be more of humiliating than that?

Maybe the Chinese did not want that but
it is laughable to say that Tibet was a part of China. Hello why do you
think it is called Tibet and the people are Tibetans?


Even when the Chinese tried to invade Tibet in the earlier 20th century
it could not win simply because of Tibet's geography. The rivers and
steep mountain passes always allowed for Tibetans to defeat the
Chinese because the Chinese troops became isolated and
could not resupply. Occupations never work.
The Tibetans never gave up and they slowly picked off
the invaders until they retreated. There are history books in US
libraries written about this. The Tibetans were like the Ewoks defeating
the Imperial troops. The only reason China was able to stay in
Lhasa and Tibet in the 1950's was because of airplanes that could
re-supply it's troops.

You can not read these history books in China because the Chinese
government is too weak and insecure to allow the real history to be
given to it's people. So it makes these tacky propaganda films full
of lies and then tries to brainwash its citizens.

Please wake up from your insecure country's ignorant propaganda.
It makes Americans think that the Chinese are stupid when it comes
to their own history.


Ok, firstly, I have to point out an error. Why are Tibetans called Tibetans, not Chinese? Well, because we (meaning English-speakers) gave them that name. English isn't the only language in the entire world.

Besides, we call people from Texas Texans, right? But they're still Americans, living in America. It's just a name. Names we made up shouldn't be taken so seriously, and should definitely not decide what nation a person belongs to, especially if it's just in one language.

Tibet really was a part of China and if you don't want to believe that than there's not much more I can say except to read a history book not written by a Chinese person or an American so that it is completely devoid of biasness. Lots of Chinese and Tibetans are related by blood, meaning that they're all within the same family.

And don't slam me or anything, I'm actually an American and I think Tibet should be given freedom as long as the violence is stopped. I also think the Olympics should continue since there is no reason for it being banned on such unrelated grounds.

~Greg

[edit on 16-3-2008 by morgul]



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:23 PM
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From everything I am reading on chinese censorship accessing ATS should be difficult at best. I post a link, it's a long article put out by Amnesty International. With all of the target words here at ATS I would think that chinese filters would not allow any access, and if one managed to get by the filters one could find themselves in a bit of trouble.

www.amnestyusa.org...



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:23 PM
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reply to post by morgul
 


I was stating a possible opinion.
Not one I take too seriously and especially not one I take to be fact.
Merely a possible opinion based on what I have seen so far from certain posters.

Especially when I notice that none of them will directly say any criticism of the Chinese government. And will defend it ALOT.
I will say it is at least evidence of them for whatever reasons not being willing or able to make any sort of criticism.

One of the few things I like about America. We can talk # about the government and not disappear or wake up dead.
Yet.

[edit on 16-3-2008 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:35 PM
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reply to post by morgul
 


I realize that we are only talking about labels here.
However Texans want to be labeled Americans.
Tibetans do NOT want to be labeled Chinese.



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:38 PM
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reply to post by morgul
 


If you look at the location of member and then follow all the threads I have on this matter of Tibet and read exactly what has been said by chinese posters stating where they were in fact located you would not have bothered with that last paragraph you typed up.



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:38 PM
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reply to post by GoldenGalaxy
 



Tibetans do NOT want to be labeled Chinese.


As evidenced by the protests. Still I am sure someone will chime in with a dodge on that one.



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:49 PM
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reply to post by DancedWithWolves
 


Well with all the foriegners and their cameras and cell phones out now Monday would be the perfect time for a crack down. My heart aches for what is yet to come. I'll be up all night watching for online news.

I left a link on censorship. I was wondering why the links that I had provided on this thread and another were never commented on by any of our chinese debaters, it could be possible that they could not be seen. They were links that showed some really horrendous chinese crimes against Tibetans. Let us see if we get any comments on them after our little discussion here.



posted on Mar, 16 2008 @ 11:56 PM
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Finnish journalist working for YLE (Finnish BBC equivalent) has been arrested in Xiahen, Gansun. She has been reporting on the Tibetian uprising. Chinese security forces demand that She should give up all interview material she has made during the last week or so.

Have there been more of these journalist shakeups?

Source in Finnish
YLE



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by WraothAscendant
reply to post by GoldenGalaxy
 



Tibetans do NOT want to be labeled Chinese.


As evidenced by the protests. Still I am sure someone will chime in with a dodge on that one.



Depends on how you define the term Chinese, Chinese race or nationality.
But I totally understand that Tibetans do not want to be labeled as Chinese. I'm a Manchurian descendant I do not want to be labeled as Chinese also, but that is talking about ethnicity. Fact is that I want to be labeled as Chinese nationality which I'm not sure what Tibetans think about it. What if Tibetan declared independence, and everyone say "Ok, you are now happy souls." will they really happy when commies invest no more money to Tibet, Or perhaps US can ensure them a happy life? I highly doubt it.



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by morgul
 


Another error you made was-Tibetans were not named by English
speaking people-according to a Tibetan friend of mine (a scholar
who studied in London Universities)-it was a name given to tribes
in this area by the Turks-a long, long, time ago in a country far,
far away.

Not everything on the planet was named by English-speaking people.
That's beyond eurocentric. Even a lot in America wasn't named by
English-speaking people. Massachusetts was named by the Wamponaug
Indians of the Cape Cod area. The list is endless in this regard.

It's not what you don't know that's ignorant, it's what you think
you know but don't have a clue about.



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by tobycd
 


Not a very good excuse to deny them the independence they obviously want.
Sounds pretty much to me like another of many justifications conquerers have made over the years.

Especially when you note that China doesn't lose all that much cutting them loose.
Except pride. Sort of like Taiwan.

[edit on 17-3-2008 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by morgul
 


Your very first post on ATS was an interesting read, words of wisdom to calm the savage beast that dare bring reproach upon china. You may see the world from the bottom of a well but I don't never have. Are you sure that you are American? You emphasized that more than once. Your writing smacked of chinese propoganda.



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
From everything I am reading on chinese censorship accessing ATS should be difficult at best. I post a link, it's a long article put out by Amnesty International. With all of the target words here at ATS I would think that chinese filters would not allow any access, and if one managed to get by the filters one could find themselves in a bit of trouble.

www.amnestyusa.org...


and again, an ignorant claim by someone who has never been in China. I am accessing ATS for the past year without ANY troubles

that is what Amensty never told you, isn't it? or they simply blatantly reported what they see fit to keep the money in from people like you?


cnn, fox, bbc all these websites I have zero difficulty to access, obviously I have to if i wanted to read news, because I can't read Chinese hahahah



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by northwolf
 


I have not seen any other reports of journalist being arrested but according to the link here the crack down has most defenitley been swift and broad. CNN inside of china is forbidden to mention Tibet.

www.mounteverest.net...



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 12:41 AM
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reply to post by IchiNiSan
 


You don't need to go to China to know of the repression there.
Are you free to wear a T-shirt in China with a photo of the Dalai Lama on it?
You have very little freedom and rights in China. You are free to
repeat propaganda and lies of the cruel Chinese government.
A Tibetan waving a photo of the Dalai Lama is tortured by Chinese
Cowards who do not question and stand up bravely to cruelty and
violence of their own government.

If you are free then let us hear you say something that criticizes
the Chinese government. Are you a coward?
Chinese soldiers are the biggest cowards in the history of the planet
Earth because they hurt and torture non-violent protesters.


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[edit on 17-3-2008 by Skyfloating]



posted on Mar, 17 2008 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by tobycd
What if Tibetan declared independence, and everyone say "Ok, you are now happy souls." will they really happy when commies invest no more money to Tibet, Or perhaps US can ensure them a happy life? I highly doubt it.


Excellent point.

The initial reports of the protest were people calling for independance - this was what was reported widely in the Western media.

The Dalai Lama, on the other hand, has for years been calling for greater autonomy within China, which will allow them to keep the benefits of being part of China: Cash. Investment. Interest free loans. Banks. Guaranteed markets. Guaranteed imports of food and consumer goods. Low taxes. Education funding. Infrastructure projects. Airports. Trains. And so forth.

If independence is gained, and the Chinese walk away from Tibet, who will fill the massive gap created?

I`m sure the americans would jump at the chance to build a new base out that way... perhaps a few no-bid contracts for haliburton, perhaps a few hotels for western tourists...





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