Chinese Security Forces Swarm Tibet

reply to post by Witness2008


lol hahaha right. Nice try.

where do I see chinese cops shooting tibetan rioters?

any propaganda website could simply upload photos of injured people and claim them to have been hurt by chinese cops. sounds just like western media.

chinese cops shooting tibetan rioters...still don't see that.

american media's excuse for its lack of evidence is that their media was kicked out of the country.

you always claim "your government [(chinese government)] themselves reported this...[negative things about china goes here]". well guess what, the sources you provide for my government saying that is written by your western media. so it's just going in a big loop. unfortunately for you, just cos western media purposefully mistranslates something (or just entirely makes it up) does not make it real.

reply to post by worldtruth


Yup. I'd say we are in a big loop as far as your concerned. Throughout the threads on Tibet you should have seen many links that showed news on Tibet and the actions of china from all around the world. What we westerners do is we make up our own minds. We do not rely on our governments to tell us anything. Given you know anything about the members here at ATS I can not believe you could possibly think that the majority of us trust our government or our mainstream media.

What I do is use a preponderance of evidence.. the history of china, the human rights violations of china, the experiences of chinese friends and world wide news sources.

Are you aware of the amount of news that is available to Americans? We do not just have CNN and Fox.

reply to post by Witness2008


well i must admit your point in the variety of official news sources--china does not have as many as west.

but that is what the internet is for . you have to see it for yourself to actually know just how massive the chinese internet community is. and with a population of nearly 1.35 billion (at least half of which is in urban areas in latest demographics), it isn't so hard to believe that there are so many chinese websites and forums.

that is where I get my news from because I am aware of chinese government corruption (every government is corrupt if anyone has not noticed yet). contradictory to what apparently seems to be popular belief on these ATS forums (and maybe to other westerners as well), we chinese are actually very aware and active in the sense of what goes on in our own government from forums not so different from these (not always as fancy ).

I read threads posted on chinese blogs and forums with unofficial photos and videos, not provided by my government. also, if some people still think it's all propaganda by chinese government, well, all the governments put together in the world simply could not generate so many threads in uncountable amounts of websites at this rate, quite obviously we are not part of some secret organization and are just normal people like you with family, jobs, and a normal life.

some of you say that we don't criticize our own government. well, we do. we're humans, too, and so we naturally investigate what we find skeptical. you just don't see this happening because obviously we discuss this in chinese amongst each other, not on english forums like ATS.

But I have a question. if you can believe that your own government is corrupt as well and you admit they have issues, too, if you believe that 9/11 really was part of a corrupted government campaign just as is with the iraqi war (supposedly freeing them), is it so hard to believe that they are also running other campaigns not yet unearthed to the general public?

what if I told you that for centuries the west has been trying to become the best in the world? that is quite obvious with america's rise to a superpower and its participation in the cold war. But to become a superpower, it obviously must eliminate and weaken other countries, that makes sense, right?

it is also public knowledge that over recent years china has been growing more and more powerful, therefore a greater threat to current superpower, the U.S., that much is obvious. so what is the U.S. going to do about it? let china just take over? china has much greater population, a big advantage. will U.S. just sit and watch as they become dominated by China? no, obviously something must be done.

thus you have it, their attempt to split china apart. divide and conquer. first Taiwan, then Tibet. and before that, too. China was once much larger. was conqured by british, a previous world power. opium war?

I love my country, ok? I know where my country's corruption lies and we are humans. we don't randomly kill Tibetans and shoot bullets into hundreds of them. I HAVE TIBETAN RELATIVES. the rioting tibetans are mostly the newer generation.

maybe one day the world will settle down, but that is only a hope, a fight for truth.

reply to post by worldtruth


Just as I hold my government accountable for what it does I am compelled to make China accountable. Have you seen our american news cover the protests against our invasion of Iraq? I actively resist the Bush policy. Why am I required to limit my feelings and actions to only U.S crimes. I am a world citizen, my reverence for life has no boundaries.

CNN ,#IT GIVES YOU WRONG MESSAGES ,COMPLETELY WRONG.
DON'T BE THE MAN LIKE 'CNN'.IT'S THE POPULER WORDS IN CHINA.
BY THE WAY,I'M CHINESE. AN UNIVERSITY STUDENT,
MY EMAIL:[email protected]

Jeez, maybe next time I just need to explictly tell people when I'm in sacarsm mode, ah well, these people here take it too serious anyhow

Originally posted by 27jd

Jeez IchiNiSan. Hell? Wow, if it's that bad, nobody is forcing you to come here...probably.

And I'm curious why you would think our guys dislike America? And on a side note, why you don't spend a little bit more energy in helping your own once-great country out of her current mess? Americans really do not deserve to live in such a mess.

I'm still curious why you guys are so worried about what we all think about China anyway. I know you guys dislike America, and I couldn't care less. You should try it sometimes, it'll stop "the sadness" that is wearing so heavily on your tortured soul.

Why so worried? Actually "worried" is not the right term, we are more or less feeling that we should enlighten some of these brainwashed sould who (aka You and Witness etc) has only one-sided story access, biased stories from lying media. You know, we are very compassionate folks here, and would jump into the fire to try saving you.

Fortunately my superior also know that he is paying me too less to continue trying to convince people who would never listen to the other side of the story, refusing to listen or trying to understand that life is more complex and not always black and white. And will only stubbornly hold on their beliefs, their religions.

So I'm a free man now, well yeah, you do get certain privilege if you are like. You know, I am allowed even to unlimitedly access ATS, not so special though , heard that the other 1.35b (my guesses more) here can also do that, grrrr

Tibet tense as Olympic torch heads for Beijing

Tibet's capital Lhasa was calm on Sunday following a brief burst of unrest weeks after a bloody uprising against Chinese rule, but in Greece and Nepal flurries of pro-Tibet protest continued.

A small group of activists tried to stop the Olympic flame reaching the Athens stadium where Greece handed it to China, but they were quickly removed by police.

Details of an incident on the streets of Lhasa on Saturday remained unclear. A mobile text message to residents from police said security checks carried out earlier in the day had "frightened citizens" and caused panic in the city centre.

It appears the protesters were not successful in stopping the hand-off from the Greeks. Nice try. Maybe the world community will start to question why people would even bother doing so?



Toronto pro-China rally turns ugly

A rally that was billed as promoting "anti-violence" turned hostile on Saturday as flag-waving Chinese denounced Tibetans who they blamed for the recent turmoil in Tibet in which 100 are said to have died.

Close to 1000 Chinese were in Toronto's Dundas Square for the afternoon event, many of them students.

"Dalai Lama die there!" some Chinese shouted at a group of Tibetans who had gathered across the street from the square to protest. "Leave Canada!" others urged.

Tibetans say the Chinese rally, which began orderly, was designed to incite hate against them.

The event was promoted in Chinese-language press as a rally to tell the "truth" about Tibet and "safeguard the reunification of the motherland."

That last little bit sounds a lot like the "motherland" of Nazi Germany when the Alsace-Lorenz was taken over by the French post-WW1.

reply to post by biggie smalls


There is a certain desperation for China to save face. This public relations campaign that china pushes at us does nothing more than allienate us further. There is a propaganda war going on at youtube www.danwei.org... and then more sudents trying to gather enough forces to provide an official guard for the torch when it passes through the U.K. www.guardian.co.uk...

I think the threads on Tibet here at ATS will continue to grow.

Oh god, not this again...

36 pages...

[edit on 30-3-2008 by morgul]

reply to post by morgul


Yes God..Thank you. 36 pages. And then of course Morgul there are a few other threads on this matter. To think that you poo-poo us here on ATS but your comrades wage a propaganda war all over the internet....how terribly one sided of you. I suppose in your mind the only importance in this matter would be that of what the PRC preaches.

reply to post by Witness2008


Look, do us a favor and stop accusing everyone of being under the PRC or some crap like that. I'm just an American father who works for a Norwegian programming company. I don't have any political ties with any shady conspiracy group in China so stop watching those movies.

Is it so wrong to take a side that isn't part of the U.S.? Not everyone who doesn't like their own country works for some secret Chinese government agency. I have a freedom of belief and I don't need you to try and challenge that by insulting my stance just because it doesn't support the U.S. (which is from my experience covered and made up of corruption itself).

I have a reason to dislike my government and it's a long story, but let's just say that FBI has threatened my life and family for working on a project with a well-known Norwegian corporation just because it is "a threat to our homeland security". What the hell? We're working on a project built in Java, not a missile launcher.

So chill out, you don't need to panic that the next moment you'll be surrounded by spy agents. That's actually more likely to happen to me.

reply to post by morgul


Then why Morgul would you bother with the post? It is because you believe your way of thinking is the only one. If you have a problem with the FBI I'm sorry but many of us here have a problem with chinas stance against all Tibetans.

Originally posted by Witness2008
Then why Morgul would you bother with the post? It is because you believe your way of thinking is the only one. If you have a problem with the FBI I'm sorry but many of us here have a problem with chinas stance against all Tibetans.

Don't we all think that our way of thinking is the only one? Why else would we be arguing over it? The only exception to that is if we are unsure in what we believe in or if we support multiple beliefs.

You question why I "bother with the post"? Why am I not allowed to support and argue what I believe is correct? How come just because I dislike some aspect of my own country that I do not have the privilege to point them out?

I simply support what I believe in. If I remember correctly, this is America and I have the rights contained within the first amendment for freedom of belief and freedom of speech, along many other rights.

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by morgul

 

Then why Morgul would you bother with the post? It is because you believe your way of thinking is the only one. If you have a problem with the FBI I'm sorry but many of us here have a problem with chinas stance against all Tibetans.

"Why would a non-Chinese bother to post?" WHAT a HYPROCICY, the irony.

So, anyone who is not agreeing with your points of view would need to shut up, so you can continue the anti-China crusade to keep on improving your Candle sales by indirectly taking out your Chinese candle exporters Talking about spreading propaganda!

Yes, why we would bother to post.

[edit on 30/3/08 by IchiNiSan]

reply to post by IchiNiSan


I can see that you and Morgul totally missed my point of why Morgul should not bother to post. Re-read them starting with morguls discontent that this thread was at page 36. Seems to me Morgul was belittling the discussions here. The insults from the -pro china posters are very disheartening and it does make it difficult to have a civil debate.

My candles have nothing to do with my boycott of chinese goods and the Olympics, the quality of my product is above the threat by foriegn imports.

reply to post by Witness2008


Hehe, the irony because you totally missed my point as well!

I was not in any way "belittling" this thread. I was just surprised to find this thread again during some random surfing. What are the chances? "36 pages" was is just a statement. My assumption had been that the argument would eventually just disperse and go off into other threads (as no one was getting anywhere and no one's ever going to convince the opposite side of debate anyway) but honestly, it had nothing to do with "belittling" anything.

Edit: Typo

[edit on 30-3-2008 by morgul]

Re-reading starting with:

Yes God..Thank you. 36 pages. And then of course Morgul there are a few other threads on this matter. To think that you poo-poo us here on ATS but your comrades wage a propaganda war all over the internet....how terribly one sided of you. I suppose in your mind the only importance in this matter would be that of what the PRC preaches.

1) using "poo-poo" to belittle someone else
2) using "comrades" to imply morgul is a communist, without knowing the man
3) using "wage a propaganda war", so implying that everyone one here pro/neutral-China is spreading propaganda and disinfo without looking at the evidences being brough forth
4) using "terribly onde sided of you", ah the irony, you call anyone debating and telling our side of the stories now being brainwashed.
5) using "the only importance...PRC preaches", who is trying to belittle who here?

--> so first post is full of insults, accusations, blaming, claiming and finger pointing.

and then continue reading

Then why Morgul would you bother with the post? It is because you believe your way of thinking is the only one. If you have a problem with the FBI I'm sorry but many of us here have a problem with chinas stance against all Tibetans.

6) using "why...bother", yes why bother to post someone's view on an open forum
7) using "because you believe your way of thinking is the only one", hey who is here the closed-minded one not willing to listen to anyone else besides some other pro-Tibet followers? And at the same replying a question yourself raised

You started off insulting someone, accusing this person of being another agent etc, and then you still asked why this person should bother to post and claim that you know that this person has only a one-sided opinion. Well, if that is not hypocricy, what is it then? I don't think I read something else

I can only agree with your last statement that there is a lot of you who are against China's stance. How genuine that is is another topic though, and I would rather talk about that in private.

reply to post by morgul


I still take what you say as belittlement. Your assumption that this subject would die because the debate would go no-where..I beg to differ with. There has been much progress. I have come to respect the opinions of a couple of opposing viewpoints.

reply to post by IchiNiSan


Boy there sure were a lot of words put into my intentions that were not really there. I have fellow comrades also...the way we feel and think on this matter make us so. You and chinawhite are comrades in your efforts. Have you never had a comrade? I do not think I ever used in any post the word "agent". But I do question the repetative arguments when it is obvious to me you do not understand what I have posted.

Originally posted by Witness2008
Your assumption that this subject would die because the debate would go no-where..I beg to differ with.

Did you not read what I just wrote? I said go off into other threads. I never said it would just die, there's a big difference.

And please don't tell me what I'm doing, I think I know very well what I am. You try to dictate to me that I am "belittling" this thread, I can only laugh and say that you may bicker a lot but you don't control what I do and what I think so stop trying to.

I already told you that I don't belittle this thread (otherwise why the hell would I be posting so much in it?) and I think the person that knows best what I am thinking is me, myself, not you, ok?