Chinese Security Forces Swarm Tibet

Originally posted by worldtruth
really? heard yet of america's (caps are for acronym) "PATRIOT ACT"? do you have any idea what it means for the government? simply expands america's government for more abuse.

The patriot act has little to do with self expression. Do you have any idea what it means? Probably not, but it's a good buzz word. Don't worry, we, the American people, are well aware of the abuses our government is trying to hide in it. We know it's not for the good of our people, and openly denounce it. I've noticed just about every "complaint" you guys post about your government, is followed by "but I understand it is for the good of our people".

right, except we might get peppered with accusations of being a part of some secret "brigand". i meant "outlaw group".

There ya go. Trying to obscure things as hard as you can, huh? Once again, a "westerner" who happens to post the same way and with the same broken english as the rest of our PRC government sanctioned friends here got "brigade" confused with "brigand" and you are really trying to run with it, lol. What a joke. You know full well nobody accused you of being "outlaws", quite the other way around actually. It is my, and others, personal belief that a good number of these Chinese posters are part of government sponsored disinfo teams, called internet brigades.

en.wikipedia.org...

Anybody just joining, read the link, then read back a few pages and tell us your opinion on this PRC conspiracy that seems to be going on right here on ATS. Kinda neat, and also ironic that the Chinese government thinks they could get away with it on a conspiracy site.

tell the american military in iraq that. tell them to quit depriving innocent iraqis of their lives .

They would love to I'm sure. They have no desire to be in that hell hole, and we are telling our government to quit. The vast majority of Americans want our troops home, can you say the same about the Chinese population's feelings on Tibet?

ok, give me one untampered picture or video of a chinese cop shooting a tibetan. this is what your messed up media wants for you to believe. that is what they tell you through text or through some news reporter. they don't have any evidence whatsoever.

It's a catch 22. There is NO WAY you will accept ANY picture that is negative to China's image as "untampered". That's the tactics you brigade (not brigand) guys use. Just a steady deliberate dismissal of all sources that go against your government propaganda. So there is no point even trying to debate and prove anything, because you won't accept it regardless, unless your government allows you to. So, we'll just continue to point out your real agenda.

how come china is only one with any evidence? at least I am able to provide pictures/videos (the REAL evidence, not just what they tell you) of tibetans attacking chinese.

whenever you are able to do that, I will believe you, ok? I think that is very fair: believe the person with solid proof.

Too bad you have no "solid" proof.

[edit on 28-3-2008 by 27jd]

reply to post by kv001


Well, thanks for the reply kv001. Those books you mentioned have nothing to do with the Dalai Lama though. I'm curious how you came to believe he works for the CIA. And sorry, I don't buy for a second based on reading your posts that you're a westerner, not solely because of your anti-Dalai Lama stance (although there are not many westerners that just casually research the Dalai Lama and come to believe he works for the CIA, lol) but because of your posting style, you can have an accent even on the internet. But that's just my personal opinion, others may vary.

Originally posted by US Monitor
I am proud of Tibet and their standing up to Chinese oppression.
In all the time that Tibet has been oppressed, the people of Tibet have kept to a higher moral standing in their protests and have not resorted to despicable terrorist acts like strapping bombs to themselves and killing innocents in order to draw attention to their cause. They have not fired rockets into civilian targets, instead they have worked hard to keep to non-violent means of protest yet they have been treated far harsher then terrorists in other countries.

! In the same sentence you've managed to say we are behind Tibetans fight for freedom and put down Palestinian fight for freedom which is ongoing for 60 years now! Also, you just backed up israeli despicable actions against the innocent civilians who just want the very same thing that Tibetans are fighting for.
Mind you in no way we can compare restrained actions of Chinese police and israeli all military onslaught for months at the time against Palestinian civilians.
You seem to have very contradicting beliefs sometimes.

reply to post by Apolon


Yeah, I wonder how the Chinese government would react if Tibetans started blowing themselves up in Chinese marketplaces, mutilating HUNDREDS of innocent Chinese civilians, or shooting rockets into Chinese cities. I'm sure their response would make Israel's look pretty tame. The post you quoted clearly pointed out the Tibetans have NOT gone to that extreme, yet the Chinese respond with lethal force to unarmed, non-bombing or rocket firing protests. Even when they escalate to riots, it is inappropriate to start firing on people who have no guns. Not even the evil, bloodthirsty US government responds in that way to angry riots here.

reply to post by 27jd


i'm just going to ignore you, you're just being a prick in the neck, I will debate with people that don't act little kiddy

at least other debaters are providing evidence (including Witness2008's Google Video of Chinese Shooting tibetans which just leads to an error page--it's too early for april fools, man).

I still don't see any pictures or videos. my request for one is completely reasonable.

still no proof. just 27jd and his ranting on us being part of a brigade which is leading far from the point of chinese cops shooting tibetans.

post photos and video evidence below, not more rantings please.

Originally posted by worldtruth
i'm just going to ignore you, you're just being a prick in the neck

Prick in the neck? You really can't stop hitting on me can you?

And you bagged on my Chinese being bad, jeez.

But I'm SO incredibly sad you are going to ignore me...oh well, I'm not going anywhere regardless.

I will debate with people that don't act little kiddy

No you won't. You'll just keep saying their sources are "tampered" with if they are not favorable to your masters, 奴隸.

And there you go with the 'kiddy' thing again, it's 'kiddie'. Again, 'kiddy' looks too much like 'kitty'. You're trying to call me a child, not dinner.

I still don't see any pictures or videos.

They've been posted, and you just try, poorly, to dismiss them as fake or say they don't exist. Anybody else (non-brigade) have trouble viewing the videos? Please chime in.

Here's an interesting (non-brainwashed, Chinese written) article....

en.epochtimes.com...

Evidence is accumulating that the Chinese regime orchestrated violence in Lhasa in order to discredit the peaceful protests of Buddhist monks.

According to the Dalai Lama's Chinese translator, Ngawang Nyendra, a witness reported that a Chinese policeman in Lhasa disguised himself as a Tibetan and joined the protesters holding a knife in his hand. This witness also recognized the man from BBC news footage and news photos provided by China.
en.epochtimes.com...

my request for one is completely reasonable.

Sure is, but your dismissal of everything anybody posts that goes against your propaganda campaign is VERY unreasonable. And VERY transparent.

post photos and video evidence below, not more rantings please.

I'll leave that to the others like howlrunner and witness, I'm gonna continue to handle the "personal attack" aspect of your brigade's tactics.





[edit on 28-3-2008 by 27jd]

reply to post by worldtruth


The video link worked for me just now but I will provide another here

www.youtube.com...

www.disclose.tv...

too much counter-strike?

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by fuelcell
we westerners

Okay.

As for my lousy grammar,,,,, it is OK. Please don't worry for me.

,as long as I can get my degree and Diploma.

Well, usually you get your diploma, then your degree. If you really are a westerner, I worry for you.

You're not fooling anybody here, but please keep trying.

Sorry to let you worry for me.

Let me take you as an example. Say, at the end of your defence meeting, you were told to leave the room for a while to allow your academic committee to make their evaluation regarding your performance. You were then asked to re-enter the meeting room. Your advisor would tell you : based on your defence, we have decided the the requirements of the degree of .... have been met. And you are therefore conferred on the degree of.... Congratulations, Dr. jd27." At that moment, you have your degree of ..(MS, Ph. D, ...sometimes BS in the case a defense is required.)

Usually in August of the year, all students who earned his/her degree in the spring semester would get his/her Diploma from the university, with the signatures of Dean of graduate school and president of the university.

You know, the university cannot order a Diploma for you before you earn your degree. So, please don't say "you got your Diploma before you got your degree."

If you don't believe, no problem, you can try getting your Diploma before you get your degree. That must be a fake one.





[edit on 28-3-2008 by fuelcell]

i wonder if this guy had a heart

www.videosift.com...

reply to post by worldtruth


American soilders are brought up for charges all of the time in this country for war crimes. Again this thread concerns Tibet and Chinas response. If you want to bash the americans go for it, there are plenty of threads that will get you started. I am interested in what you saw in the video I provided. You wanted to see Chinese authorities killing Tibetans.

reply to post by fuelcell


Ya know, even though you are SO not a "westerner", you're so good natured I just can't be mean to you, darn it, lol. I hope one day you can see through your government's BS and realize what they tell you is not true. Just like I know what my government tells me is not true, lol.

reply to post by Witness2008


ok video works in this link.

a video of a few snipers killing tibetan hikers in the Himalayas posted 2 years ago does not in any way or form show how chinese cops were shooting tibetan rioters. I never said all chinese people are good. there are bad people everywhere, murders, assassins in every country. in fact it's the same here as in China: you hear about robberies, shootings, and sometimes the assassins use snipers.

my goal was for someone to show me what the western media claimed such as several hundred people shot by chinese police during said peaceful demonstrations.

there are so many videos of burning buildings and peaceful protests, yet so strange there don't seem to be any of the most important stuff, which are the shootings of the tibetan rioters which is so strongly tainting the chinese image.

i want you to understand why I ask for video evidence. because on most news reports when there is such a shooting of maybe 10 or more people, there is always a video or if no video, photos of the aftermath. but this time, I have not seen these cops shoot 100+ tibetans. I only see videos of tibetans destroying cities and attacking chinese police. do you see what I mean?

reply to post by 27jd


I wonder if our chinese friends know that the information and videos that they post are not new to us. I do think they use every means to get around having to address the crimes of Chiinas government.

reply to post by Witness2008


ok, we can say the same thing:

I know that there are many things my government has done wrong.

that's the same thing you said. stop going off track and post evidence of chinese cops shooting 100+ tibetan rioters. ya, I didn't think you could, because it never happened.

reply to post by worldtruth


The video showed chinese border patrol killing Tibetans. These were not run of the mill criminals killing people.... they were chinese military.

Given that the media and anyone with a camera was herded out of the country almost immediatley photos will be hard to come by. There are however photos of dead Tibetans with bullet holes. Your government has also admitted to having shot four rioters. www.studentsforafreetibet.org...

If the Chinese military is capable of shooting innocent Tibetans making a pilgramage what are we to think about Chinese forces when Tibetans start rioting?



[edit on 28-3-2008 by Witness2008]

reply to post by 27jd


I am flattered.

You know, nobody really trust the government. Politicians are born liars.

I stayed in China (Guangdong and Chengdu) for a couple of years to help set up locations there for my former company. I had a lot of friends there. We shared a lot of views. I visited Lhasa and knew of some Tibetans also. I even had lunch with a Dahwa (I am not so sure. I might have mixed this name with some others) there. He told me he would like to see Dalai Lama back to Tibet but a huge group of local Tibetan officials would hate to see thta in fear of losing their power.





[edit on 29-3-2008 by fuelcell]

reply to post by Witness2008
Frankly, that video is heavily edited. In some footage it was right view, then on another it was left panning... showing the same group of travelling tibetans. So where were the location of the supposed hiking crew who took the vid?. Were they even in Tibet or Nepal ?.

In one scene, the chinese border guard was shown shooting from the ridge, with my military experience, was at least a km or two in range. Anything short of a 50 cal sniper rifle, would have a slim chance of a single shot hit... Especially, from an AK variant.

While I believe, that some of the vid is real , others seemed to be staged.

Not to be cynical, are the tibetans breaking China's border laws ? which govt would allow it's citizen to visit a known seperatist domain?

Originally posted by fuelcell
You know, nobody really trust the government. Politicians are born liars.

Yeah, I hear that. I'm sure a few politicians go into it with good intentions, but usually end up being corrupted along the way. We need to find a better way of governing ourselves, and never just leave it up to others, we should always be right there in their faces every step of the way.

I stayed in China (Guangdong and Chengdu) for a couple of years to help set up locations there for my former company. I had a lot of friends there. We shared a lot of views. I visited Lhasa and knew of some Tibetans also. I even had lunch with a Dahwa (I am not so sure. I might have mixed this name with some others) there. He told me he would like to see Dalai Lama back to Tibet but a huge group of local Tibetan officials would hate to see thta in fear of losing their power.

Well, being as I'm not educated enough on China's claim to Tibet, and the long, complicated history, you won't see me screaming for Tibet's independence. I just don't know enough, but I do know, the current Chinese government cracks down WAY too hard on unarmed civilians that disobey them. The PRC is one of the most corrupt and oppressive governments on Earth, and I hope the Chinese people get tired of it one day and change things, just like we're trying to do here in America. All the Chinese folks that live here are very nice, and I have nothing against Chinese people (besides their treatment of animals, but's that not to discuss here).

reply to post by mobydog


There are several videos, some have been cut from the original for its wide use. Here is a written account of it. Most of the world knows of the incident and many human rights organizations are still looking for an explanation.

www.hrw.org...