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Chinese Security Forces Swarm Tibet

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posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by chinawhite
 


I don't understand cantonese - so I can't say what they are actually saying really. But, yes - they look upset, and I can understand why. The chinese immigrants who were moved to Tibet by the Chinese authorities are just more innocent victims in this situation. The Tibetans are reacting to over 50 years of Chinese occupation - and they took it out on all things chinese, including chinese immigrants - and that is sad.

But who created the policy of moving these chinese immigrants into Tibet to begin with? And why? Everyone is well aware that the chinese government has been trying to systematically destroy Tibetan culture for generations....and moving chinese into Tibet is probably part of that policy. And the tibetans resent the chinese immigrants because of this..

It's all very ugly and unessecary. Tibet was once strategically important to China - which is why they invaded. But that was in the 1950's. Surely, Tibet is no longer that important to the chinese strategically. Why not admit that and just let the tibetans get on with being tibetans again - without any chinese interference??

It would also make the Chinese government look VERY good to the eyes of the world - it could even be a masterful stroke of PR tactics. Think of it that way... the chinese government would be applauded world-wide.



J.

[edit on 22-3-2008 by jimbo999]

[edit on 22-3-2008 by jimbo999]




posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 08:30 PM
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China White said:

You said


"You can't prove the Chinese or the Tibetans started the fires, so as far as I'm concerned, the point is moot. "



And you were proven wrong.

Why would Chinese burn themselves and their shops?

Comprende?


...and if you're right China White then it shows that Tibetans are not all peaceful happy and prosperous under Chinese rule. It also proves that Han Chinese are not welcome in China and are viewed as foreign invaders.




China White said:

When a journalist in Tibet post pictures FROM Tibet and says they are TIBETAN than it is TIBETAN


Since the free press are not allowed in Tibet there are only two sources. Either tourists trapped in Tibet by the riots who are unlikely to know the difference, or PRC reporters who are likely to slant a story.




China White said:

(afterall it was the Chinese emperor who chose the Dalai Lama).


You haven't a clue what you're talking about China White (more reason to ignore your distorted logic).

The last Qing Emperor was overthrown in 1911.

The 14th Dalai Lama, named as Lhamo Dhondup, was born 6 July 1935 in Litang, eastern Tibet. He was selected by three senior Lamas following the visions of an oracle.

Incidentally the invasion of Tibet was preceded by a powerful earthquake in eastern Tibet which was taken as an omen of the collapse of an empire.

Now just after recent rioting there was another massive earthquake in western Tibet and it is already being interpreted by some as the begining of another great collapse.




posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by jimbo999
I'm afraid a lot of people at the article's website disagree vehemently with the accuracy and validity of this story. And to be frank - I question it's accuracy too.


There were 5 comments

3 were definitely good

One said
"What a crock!" in reference to the Dalai Lama

Second
"This is a well researched well thought article. I feel it's like a fresh air."

Third
"Very informative and eye opening. Thanks a lot for the excellent article."

Another said this
"It is the traditional custom for the Panchen Lama to confirm the reincarnated Dalai Lama and vice versa." Gimme a break. The traditional custom was shattered by Beijing when they appointed the Panchen Lama without the Dalai Lama's confirmation. Since the author omitted this information, I can't rely on anything he says."


Which I will counter by saying that the Dalai Lama wants his position to be elected and that it is a custom not a rule for that to happen, since there were TWO people to chose from. And traditional customs means that the head of the Governemtn picks the Lama from a golden urn

Lastly
"The fight is for freedom. As a Tibetan I would recommend the newsmagazine to do a little research better printing such articles as it would question the whole legitimacy of your paper."

His questioning the idea that Tibet was fought over what the article wrote about. Didn't provide a argument or proof of anything. It would be like myself trying to claim I was a Tibetan and speaking on EVERY TIBETANs behalf which would be absurd



Beijing appointing Head Lamas? What gives them the authority exactly?.


Oh, let me see. The fact that ALL lamas since the 1700's has been chosen by the Chinese government starting from the Qianlong Emperor.

Sucession of states mandates that the ROC government took over from the Qing dynasty and then the PRC over their mandate when they won the civil war.


DENY IGNORANCE




posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 09:01 PM
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and if you're right China White then it shows that Tibetans are not all peaceful happy and prosperous under Chinese rule. It also proves that Han Chinese are not welcome in China and are viewed as foreign invaders.


And who initiated the riots?.

The Tibetan Youth congress. The fact that only about 5000 took part in the riots showed what little support they had. It only proves how fundamentally wrong it is to believe they are peace loving people.



Incidentally the invasion of Tibet was preceded by a powerful earthquake in eastern Tibet which was taken as an omen of the collapse of an empire.

Now just after recent rioting there was another massive earthquake in western Tibet.




I'll love to see you prove that.


There was a massive earthquake where your from when you posted that, a omen of a lie you just told.


You see the stupidity of a argument like that......?



Since the free press are not allowed in Tibet there are only two sources.


Reuters.
The economist

I gave this source just one page before

Our Beijing correspondent happened to be in Lhasa as the riots broke out. Here is what he saw
www.economist.com...

AP.
Free journalist from other Asian countries
Phoneix TV of hong Kong
www.zonaeuropa.com...


And add to it all the tourist. So they wouldn't know better???. Disinformation


No independent media?

There goes your argument



The 14th Dalai Lama, named as Lhamo Dhondup, was born 6 July 1935 in Litang, eastern Tibet. He was selected by three senior Lamas following the visions of an oracle.



Because there was no Chinese government at that stage. It was WW2 at that stage and Jiang Jie Shi practically found the 14th Dalai Lama. "The Historical Status of China's Tibet" gives more detail on the search


The Qing government holds the power to confirm the reincarnation of all deceased high Living Buddhas of Tibet including the Dalai Lama and the Bainqen Erdeni. When the reincarnate boy has been found, his name will be written on a lot, which shall be put into a gold urn bestowed by the central government. The high commissioners will bring together appropriate high-ranking Living buddhas to determine the authenticity of the reincarnate boy by drawing lots from the gold urn. (Both the gold urn and lots are still preserved in Lhasa.) The tonsure of the incarnate Living Buddha, his religious name, the choice of the master to initiate him into monkhood and his sutra instructor all have to be reported by the high commissioners to the imperial court for examination and approval. The central government will send high officials to supervise in person the installation ceremony for the new Dalai Lama and the new Bainqen Erdeni and also the ceremony for their taking over reins of government at coming of age.

About.com



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by jimbo999
But who created the policy of moving these chinese immigrants into Tibet to begin with?


Which policy might that be?. Dont tell me your making that up...

Its a guaranteed human right and the government cant stop them moving there


Freedom of movement, mobility rights or the right to travel is a human rights concept which is respected in the constitutions of numerous states. It asserts that a citizen of a state, in which that citizen is present, generally has the right to leave that state, travel wherever the citizen is welcome, and, with proper documentation, return to that state at any time; and also (of equal or greater importance) to travel to, reside in, and/or work in, any part of the state the citizen wishes without interference from the state.




Tibet was once strategically important to China - which is why they invaded. But that was in the 1950's.





Chinese people were claiming Tibet since the Yuan Dynasty. It has nothing to do with strategic importance

[edit on 22-3-2008 by chinawhite]



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by chinawhite
 


China is an ecological wasteland www.nytimes.com...

theres a few hundred articles where that one came from.

If china has had a history of chosing Lamas why the fuss over Gedu Choekyi Nyima. Why does not the PRC just let him and his family go?




posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 09:48 PM
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reply to post by chinawhite
 


If moving freely is a guaranteed right then why would Tibetans be treated any differently? The link below shows your statement to be untrue.

video.google.com...



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008

China is an ecological wasteland www.nytimes.com...


So what about the 1.3billion people living there




posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008

If moving freely is a guaranteed right then why would Tibetans be treated any differently? The link below shows your statement to be untrue.


Obviously it takes into accounts the local laws of the country

So according to your argument a coc aine dealer has the right to move countries when he is wanted for dealing or a murderer. The law is NOT the law and has obvious variations. We dont even know what those people were doing or even if they were born in China



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by chinawhite
 


Would you prefer my answer aimed at health, happiness or freedom?




posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by chinawhite
 


You did not see the video. It clearly narates the content and investigation of said incident.




posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
You did not see the video. It clearly narates the content and investigation of said incident.


I've seen that video and many others like it



6 months or so ago that is a big issue on ATS and I have been through it before



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
They had to dedicate a whole article to saying how superior the American economy is.

Thats a inferiority complex



No, that is the World bank discovering a error and correcting it...





Ok take the PPP figure into account.

6 Trillion * 10% growth figure and that figure will double in 7 years to 12.86 trillion.


The World Banks estimates are a $5.33T economy... Furthermore, Chinas economy is said to grow at 8% from here to 2011 (at best).


Another year and that SURPASSES the US economy


Yes, if we take two things into consideration. If the chinese economy grows 10% for the next 8-10 years (which still wouldn't calculate up to what you say. Also, inflation, pollution etc. needs to be taken into consideration, as that eats up GDP.) And the other "if" is, "if" the US economy didn't grow for 8-10 years...

If the US were to grow at 3-3.5% a year, and China were to grow at 12% (more than it is now) a year from 2005 to 2030, China would not equal parity with the US economy till the year 2030... So, it is safe to say that China has alot working against it, as that has never ever happened before ( a country growing 12% for 25 years straight)



[edit on 22-3-2008 by West Coast]



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by chinawhite
 


Then how is it that your discription and question of possble drug smugglers came into it? The video showed nothing of the sort. It was very clear what was happening.




posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 10:39 PM
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hi everybody.... sorry for my waking up later....anyone is missing me? LOL..

in the morning, i made one thing clear in my mind, now i like to share it with anybody of you... we all know that this year is not only the olympic year but aslo marks the 30th anneversary of China's open up policy, 30 years is really a very short period, and the huge scale of trade and communication only rises in recent 10 years i guess... so it is normal for the whole world to have any bad impression on China..... i think that is one of the key reasons behind our debate here.

if you are denying china just for the purpose of anti-China, then go on your agent job.
if you are really holding a hope to build a peaceful world, you'e better ponder the remarks of mine above to find whether there are any rooted bias or misunderstanding in your great mind.



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by West Coast
No, that is the World bank discovering a error and correcting it...


Actually the World Bank study was based on 11 Chinese provinces and wasn't in depth mainly focusing on poverty reduction rates which happened to correlate with PPP figures.


And its the world banks study which is just one opinion. The IMF and CIA give two other figures

IMF - 11,606,336
CIA - 7,043,000


But who is right and who is wrong?. Who knows




The World Banks estimates are a $5.33T economy... Furthermore, Chinas economy is said to grow at 8% from here to 2011 (at best).



And people predict that the US will hit a recession as well.

Also, they claimed that Chinas economy would reach only 8% last year and then it reached 11.7% during the 06-07 financial year



If the US were to grow at 3-3.5% a year, and China were to grow at 12% (more than it is now) a year from 2005 to 2030, China would not equal parity with the US economy till the year 2030


Simple Maths.

5.33 Trill * 1.12
12 Trill * 1.03


15 years the Chinese economy will be 26.04 Trillion
15 years the American economy will be 18.15 Trillion


It'll be about 11 years or 12 years before the American economy is surpassed by the Chinese one if we use a figure of 10%



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
Then how is it that your discription and question of possble drug smugglers came into it? The video showed nothing of the sort. It was very clear what was happening.


Looks like people going over the border without permission. Who knows what they could be carrying. Firearms, Drugs etc. All the border guards know is that there was a unidentified group of people who purposely avoided a Chinese customs check point



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by West Coast
The World Banks estimates are a $5.33T economy.


That was for 2005



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 11:12 PM
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reply to post by chinawhite
 


No. That is not the content of the video. What do you mean "who knows"? the video explains it. There was nothing the individuals were carrying. Are you sure someone is not simply trying to explain to you a different version of the facts?




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