Chinese Security Forces Swarm Tibet

reply to post by zorgon



Hmmmm...Exxon. Let the games begin.

query.nytimes.com...

b

About Games...

Germany Warns China Olympics at Risk
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Player One has stepped up to the plate

reply to post by zorgon


Very good. Hopefully a few others will start intimating a boycott. Off topic a bit but I keep running into articles about the labor force at work on the Olympic stadium, the Birds Nest. I'm not so sure I would want to buy a seat. Lots of unskilled labor.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

Originally posted by biggie smalls
reply to post by Witness2008

 

They sound just like the US! We are one of the most polluting countries in the world as well.

Its not really fair to single China out, but I do agree with you.

China has surpassed the US in carbon emissions and greenhouse gases. That's pretty amazing. And they're not going to stop.

China now #1 in CO2 emissions

This picture is a few years old, but it certainly gets the point across:

More importantly, China is the biggest industrialized polluter. Out in California, they say that they are experiencing acid rain (not a common problem in america) thanks to the sulfur dioxide that comes from china. China is currently the biggest emitter of sulfur dioxide, with absolutely no regulations in sight (unlike the US). Much of China already is, an ecological wasteland.

reply to post by zorgon


That videos point shows just how deep chinas inferiority complex runs.

Regardless, China will not surpass the US, probably ever...

Originally posted by West Coast


Regardless, China will not surpass the US, probably ever...

They had to dedicate a whole article to saying how superior the American economy is.

Thats a inferiority complex




Ok take the PPP figure into account.

6 Trillion * 10% growth figure and that figure will double in 7 years to 12.86 trillion. Another year and that SURPASSES the US economy

Originally posted by biggie smalls
Nope I'm pretty sure there are Chinese rioters in CHINA thank you very much.

When a journalist in Tibet post pictures FROM Tibet and says they are TIBETAN than it is TIBETAN


Going by your logic

This is a Triangle



This is a car



This is a democrat

The Tibetans may be burning Chinese shops. What is your point?

You claimed it could be Tibetans burning their own house which obviously isn't the case. The onus of proof is on you to provide evidence to persuade otherwise

Originally posted by West Coast
Much of China already is, an ecological wasteland.

And you've been?



Why dont you provide proof when you make a claim like that

Biggie smalls.


The economist had the only state sponsored journalist in Tibet. And his article answers your questions.

I outlined it below but here it is again
"Shops owned by Tibetans were marked as such with traditional white scarves tied through their shutter-handles. They were spared destruction. Almost every other one was wrecked."

The rioting quickly fanned through the winding alleyways of the city's old Tibetan area south of Beijing Road. Many of these streets are lined with small shops, mostly owned by Hans or Huis, a Muslim ethnic group that controls much of Lhasa's meat trade. Crowds formed, seemingly spontaneously, in numerous parts of the district. They smashed into non-Tibetan shops, pulled merchandise onto the streets, piled it up and set fire to it. Everything from sides of yak meat to items of laundry was thrown onto the pyres. Rioters delighted in tossing in cooking-gas canisters and running for cover as they exploded. A few yelled “Long live the Dalai Lama!” and “Free Tibet!”

For hours the security forces did little. But the many Hans who live above their shops in the Tibetan quarter were quick to flee. Had they not, there might have been more casualties. (The government, plausibly, says 13 people were killed by rioters, mostly in fires.)[I have pictures]. Some of those who remained, in flats above their shops, kept the lights off to avoid detection and spoke in hushed tones lest their Mandarin dialect be heard on the streets by Tibetans. One Han teenager ran into a monastery for refuge, prostrating himself before a red-robed Tibetan abbot who agreed to give him shelter.

The destruction was systematic. Shops owned by Tibetans were marked as such with traditional white scarves tied through their shutter-handles. They were spared destruction. Almost every other one was wrecked. It soon became difficult to navigate the alleys because of the scattered merchandise. Chilli peppers, sausages, toys (child looters descended on those), flour, cooking oil and even at one spot scores of small-denomination bank notes were ground underfoot by triumphant Tibetan residents into a slippery carpet of filth.

And people saying they were force out is absurd

The approaching flame

The government's decision not to declare martial law, or any emergency restrictions, reflected its concern about the Olympics. In March 1989 the authorities imposed martial law in Lhasa to quell separatist unrest. Its measures were barely distinguishable from those now in force in the city. The old Tibetan area has been sealed off by gun-carrying troops, but officials prefer to refer euphemistically to “special traffic-control measures”. This time foreign tourists in Lhasa have been “advised” rather than ordered to leave. On March 18th police and troops began moving the 100 or so remaining tourists to hotels far from the site of the riots. In 1989 foreign journalists were expelled from Lhasa. This time your correspondent was allowed to stay, but only until his permit expired on March 19th. No others were allowed in.

[edit on 22-3-2008 by chinawhite]

reply to post by chinawhite


What are you talking about? How is this relevant at all?

There are students protesting in China, among others. There are more people protesting in Tibet.

Is that what you're trying to say? Check this thread, there's plenty of evidence showing Chinese dissent, not just Tibetan.

Originally posted by chinawhite

The Tibetans may be burning Chinese shops. What is your point?

You claimed it could be Tibetans burning their own house which obviously isn't the case. The onus of proof is on you to provide evidence to persuade otherwise

I think you need to go back and reread what I wrote.

I said the Tibetans would not burn their own house down.

Comprendes?

In the US media:

Yahoo! denies posting web photos of Tibetan protesters

US Internet giant Yahoo! denied Saturday posting on its websites pictures of 19 people wanted by the Chinese authorities for protesting in the Tibetan capital Lhasa.
"Contrary to media reports, Yahoo! Inc. is not displaying images on its web sites of individuals wanted by Chinese authorities in connection with the recent unrest in Tibet," it said in a statement sent to AFP in Paris.

"We are looking into this matter with Alibaba Group, the company that controls China Yahoo!," the company said.

Yahoo is merely trying to save face. That's not the interesting part of the article.

China maintains that only 13 people have died in the unrest, all "innocent civilians" killed by rioters. It denies security forces killed any protesters.

Well that number is contrary to an earlier report I read. The Chinese also admitted to killing protesters in an earlier link on this thread as well.

Someone (state-sponsored Chinese media) is not telling the whole truth here.

First they say "we did it", now they say "we didn't."

However Tibet's government-in-exile has put the "confirmed" death toll from a week of unrest across the Himalayan region and neighbouring provinces at 99, while the exiled Tibetan parliament in India has said "hundreds" may have died.

"Yahoo! deplores the use of the Internet to suppress freedom of expression," the statement said.

"We are a company founded on the principle that promoting access to information can fundamentally improve people's lives and enhance their relationship with the world around them."

Since google was paid off by the Chinese to censor the civilian use of the internet, I would not be surprised Yahoo is doing the same.

Freedom of the press...

Originally posted by biggie smalls

I said the Tibetans would not burn their own house down.

Comprendes?

You said

"You can't prove the Chinese or the Tibetans started the fires, so as far as I'm concerned, the point is moot. "


And you were proven wrong.

Why would Chinese burn themselves and their shops?

Comprende?


Parents (store holders), one 5-month-old infant, and 2 employees were burned to death by the thugs in the recent incident in Lhasa.



www.sina.com... 2008年03月22日19:17 中国新闻网



In another attack 5 people were killed when their shop burnt down

2 Han Chinese workers and 3 Tibetan workers.

Inferno





Parents grief


Person who died


Father - Lost for words

This is good read for people who think that the Dalai Lama is the end all of Tibetan affairs. You do realise people that their are fractions in culture and that one fraction in Tibet became the Dalai Lama (afterall it was the Chinese emperor who chose the Dalai Lama).


People just assume that Tibet is one and their is no infighting. You understand Tibetan history very little if you think like that

Endgame for the Dalai Lama: Black Hat Sect Dismantling Power Base

Editor’s note: The façade of Tibetan unity has unraveled and along with it, the Dalai Lama’s power base. Yoichi Shimatsu, former editor of the Japan Times Weekly in Tokyo, was executive producer of the video documentary “Flight of a Karmapa” (Nachtvision 2002) taped in the Tsurphu area of Tibet, the Mustang region of Nepal, Sikkim and Dharamsala.


Hezuo, Gansu Province – For decades, the Beijing government had recognized the Dalai Lama as its sole negotiating partner in Tibetan affairs. For the officialdom, it was simpler to deal with a single person -- the “pontiff” of Tibetan Buddhism – to control the entire ethnic population. The façade of Tibetan unity was convenient to both sides but now it has unraveled, and it’s the endgame for the Dalai Lama.

By ordering the monks of his Gelugpa or Yellow Hat sect to hold peaceful rallies on the 49th anniversary of the Chinese invasion, the Dalai Lama -- unwittingly -- ignited pent-up emotions among Lhasa residents. Scenes like the head bashing, stoning and kicking of a prostrate bicycle owner arose from popular grievances against runaway price inflation and perceived discrimination against Tibetans in their own land. Such cruelty, regardless of past injustices, has nothing to do with Buddhist teachings but arises from the human condition.

Unfortunately for the Dalai Lama, the loyalists in his once-powerful organization inside Tibet are being selectively investigated, arrested and detained for causing the violence. The Beijing government has repeatedly stated that only a small minority of Tibetans loyal to the Dalai Lama were involved in the protests. Whatever its legal flaws, there’s more than a grain of truth in the official assertion.

Amid the mayhem and anarchy, a decisive factor in the Tibetan equation has gone practically unnoticed: Key major players did not join or support the protests:

-- The Panchen Lama, a top prelate of the Gelugpa or Yellow Hat school, second in rank only to the Dalai Lama himself, has spoken in no uncertain terms against the rioting and instead backed the government.

-- Leaders of the Nyingma and Sakya schools, as well as the native Bon religion, did not endorse the protests and are tight-lipped about the wave of arrests.

-- Laymen with the re-ascendant Kagyupa or Black Hat school, are furious with the Dalai Lama after being targeted by Gelugpa supporters during the horsemen’s raid on the Hezuo local district office in south Gansu and in several counties in Sichuan Province.

In this negative light, the rallies by the Gelugpa monks seemed a desperate bid to reassert the Dalai Lama’s authority by accusing their Tibetan rivals of being “collaborators” and presenting themselves as the “resistance.” Due to the unintended violence, however, the Yellow Hats find themselves as the odd man out. Following the crackdown, rival sects are moving to dismantle the remnants of the Gelugpa organization, which had the monopoly of power over the Tibetan Autonomous Region (TAR) and other districts as recently as five years ago.

In the Buddhist view, all things come full circle. In the 17th century, the 5th Dalai Lama called in a Mongol general to overthrow the Karmapa’s theocracy. Today, the Karmapa’s men are ousting the Gelugpa power structure. Ceaseless change is unstoppable, taught Sakyamuni Buddha. Thus, attachment only results in suffering – our attachment to wealth, power, pride, respect and, most of all, to love, the meanest vice yet highest virtue of human existence. Not even his bitter opponents can dispute the deep love of His Holiness the Dalai Lama Tenzin Gyatso for his homeland, Tibet. How difficult it must be now, to let go.
New American Media

EDIT: Double post

[edit on 22-3-2008 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by chinawhite

In another attack 5 people were killed when their shop burnt down

2 Han Chinese workers and 3 Tibetan workers.

Here is a more in depth report by Phoenix TV which is independent media. Based in Hong Kong it has nothing to do with China, but reports farily on Chinese issues through a Chinese perspective. Like the CNN of china without the BS

www.zonaeuropa.com...

Originally posted by chinawhite
This is a democrat

I believe you are mistaken on that one... A little more respect for your future Chinese oil partner... after all him and his buddies are already working on that new pipeline...



[edit on 22-3-5135 by zorgon]








[edit on 22-3-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon

I believe you are mistaken on that one...

Your a little slow

Here is the Video report

reply to post by chinawhite


I'm afraid a lot of people at the article's website disagree vehemently with the accuracy and validity of this story. And to be frank - I question it's accuracy too.

Beijing appointing Head Lamas? What gives them the authority exactly? Sorry but this reads like a piece of disinformation to me..

J.

[edit on 22-3-2008 by jimbo999]