Chinese Security Forces Swarm Tibet

reply to post by zorgon


rioters are also chinese...
official number is 16 up now...dont know how many others severely wounded cant recover..

[edit on 22-3-2008 by wwssii]

reply to post by ikaruga


What started as a peaceful protest turned into a violent riot. I don't think anyone has denied that fact.

However, the beginning of this protest was peaceful, hence the original posts.

After the Chinese have restricted movement in Tibet and cracked down on protesters, of course its going to get bloody.

reply to post by wwssii


The number is at least 80 from a few days. I don't know where you're getting "16" from.

I've presented multiple sources indicating many people dead whether directly from the protests or the Chinese government response.

Hundreds (it may even be in the thousands, I can't remember the figure) have been arrested in connection to the protest as well.

double post

[edit on 3/22/2008 by biggie smalls]

let's simplize the issue in this way..
i was a villein working for a landlord, while another tibetan was a slave belonging to a noble. we are both belong to a same village. the landlord and the noble obeyed the rule of Qing empor, then the kuomintung's control. years passed, one day, another giant named communist party came and toppled the governor then set up his regime and liberate me as a villein and the tibetan serf. so now, can you say any invasion occured in this process?
we still work in the village one as a worker and another as a shopowner...so now, can you say that we belong different country now?

I know what you are trying to say, but even if you've been told it was that way, that is not how it was.

The Qing invaded Tibet four times and always left. Qing had an embassy in Tibet and tried at times to impose a regent to represent the Qing emperors, but the Tibetan people never accepted attempts by the Qing to control them
Tibet had it's own Government and made it's own treaties with countries to the west and north.

The last Qing army in 1911 was beaten and driven back to China.

In 1918 there was a treaty between British-China and Tibet which recognised Tibet as a separate country and identified the border between China and Tibet.

There was no control of Tibet by China before 1949.

When the Maoist (communist Chinese) came to Tibet it was an invasion.

Technically the governor of Eastern Tibet (Khamdo) invited the Maoists but he never consulted with the Tibetan Government.

You can not say because you think you own something and because every generation tells the next one that, then somehow it becomes yours.

I could say i own the moon and tell my grandchildren that they own the moon, but that does not make it mine.

reply to post by biggie smalls


The Western media is just as bias in this case. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

Is having a bunch of reporters always a good thing? The Western media has already made up their minds about who they think is in the right anyway.

The Chinese news is no better than the Western news. They both have their own biases and agendas. Let's not be hypocritical here.

In regards to my statement about China being transparent in THEIR DOMESTIC coverage of the issue, I was trying to show that the media here, in regards to this subject, is not as censored as some of the posters on ATS seem to think it is.

I must admit I routinely become annoyed with Chinese internet filters and the like, but most of those are for porn or Fa Lun Gong anyway. Not stuff that I usually like to read about, except for the porn of course.

Originally posted by sy.gunson

You can not say because you think you own something and because every generation tells the next one that, then somehow it becomes yours.

I could say i own the moon and tell my grandchildren that they own the moon, but that does not make it mine.

Really? America, Britain, France, Spain, Rome, etc. have seemed to be pretty good at doing that throughout the ages.

reply to post by ikaruga


As I don't live in China, I can only take your word on the domestic coverage of the crisis.

I can say this much: neither side is telling the whole story. The Western "media" is very biased. I agree. If you research my posting history, you will find how much I dislike their taste and coverage.

This part of your statement worries me, not because I don't believe you, but because you don't deserve to have censored access to information:

I must admit I routinely become annoyed with Chinese internet filters

.

You, like everyone else in the world, deserves free access to information. Your government is doing you no favor by censoring information to "keep you safe."

Is having a bunch of reporters always a good thing? The Western media has already made up their minds about who they think is in the right anyway.

I see where you're coming from, but when information can be accessed from multiple sources, the chance of being censored is much lower.

Although CNN, MSNBC, and FOX may be owned by pretty much the same people, their coverage of the news ranges widely.

I don't like any of them to be honest, which is why I love our independent media.

Right now we are independently reporting the news, although I admit I do have a bias as does everyone else.

I, unlike Fox news, do not spend millions of dollars on a public relations campaign to convince anyone I'm "fair and balanced."

I'm not being hypocritical, only speaking my truth.

[edit on 3/22/2008 by biggie smalls]

Originally posted by biggie smalls
What started as a peaceful protest turned into a violent riot. I don't think anyone has denied that fact.
However, the beginning of this protest was peaceful, hence the original posts.
After the Chinese have restricted movement in Tibet and cracked down on protesters, of course its going to get bloody.

OK, ok, they are peaceful... so give me some pictures showing that they are peaceful sitting or just walking..

and yes, yes again, China always crackdown PPL and any demonstrators are all kind-hearted, right?? is that your judgement standard?

anybody breaking the law should deserve their punishment no matter they are monks , tibetans or han ppl.. or any other ppl.....and no matter what a beautiful goodwill they hold in hearts!

Once again, I implore all of those who know so much about this situation to look at ALL of these pictures.

Start with this one:

news.xinhuanet.com...


They are from Reuters.

Really peaceful, these Tibetans. The Dalai Lama is obviously playing a role in this uprising. What are the Chinese supposed to do? Sit there and let peope throw rocks at them and burn down their buildings?

Use a little common sense. Take your heart out of the issue for a minute.

I am not taking sides here, I am just being realisitic.

reply to post by wwssii


Do you consider these people violent? I don't see rocks or guns in their hands























[edit on 3/22/2008 by biggie smalls]

reply to post by biggie smalls


Once again, it isn't my government. I am American.

Shouldn't the real independent media look at all sides and then make a judgment?

reply to post by ikaruga


I saw those pictures. The pictures show burning buildings, which say nothing about the protest peaceful or not.

Typically people who protest their unfair treatment don't light their own homes on fire, so this is certainly a fringe element.

You can't prove the Chinese or the Tibetans started the fires, so as far as I'm concerned, the point is moot.

Lhasa is burning. Who did it? No one knows.

reply to post by biggie smalls



Please take a look at the link I posted just before yours with the pictures.

Reuters pictures clearly showing Tibetans burning down buildings, beating Chinese citizens in mobs, and throwing rocks at the police.

reply to post by ikaruga


Since the media is far from independent, that would be a tough call.

Yes they should make up their own opinions, but as a few companies own all the media (Rupert Murdoch anyone?) the information isn't as free as I'd like it to be.

Its up to organizations like ATS to present information from as many sources as possible and as unbiased as possible (which is very difficult).

Originally posted by ikaruga
Reuters pictures clearly showing Tibetans burning down buildings, beating Chinese citizens in mobs, and throwing rocks at the police.

I've already seen them. Twice actually.

Your statement could easily be reconfigured as, "Pictures showing Chinese burning down buildings, Chinese police beating Tibetan/Chinese civilians, and Chinese police using excessive force on protesters."

Both would be true.

reply to post by sy.gunson


gunson, i dont want to complicate this issue too much. so i try my best to simplize it.

i only mean that history is in the hearts of the ppl not any books... can lies be passed on hundreds of years. and the most important thing is even tibetan ppl themselves also regard tibet is part of China...including Dalai in 1950s....

what you said just China invaded tibet.. but it is just Communist party to oppress tibetan governor accepts a new central government.... you should know an antonomous region never mean a independent nation...just like taiwan.... in every form, taiwan is a form of country, but actually no....

what is a country? it is the recognition in the deep hearts of the ppl.
not a seperate governor means a country...

Originally posted by wwssii
rioters are also chinese...
official number is 16 up now...dont know how many others severely wounded cant recover..

So much for a straight answer



If these guys are disinfo agents... I am sure they will be fired real soon

:shk:

reply to post by biggie smalls


Which pictures have you seen twice? Apparently not the ones I linked-up.

Why would the Chinese burn down their own shops? You can clearly see mobs of people throwing stones and rocks, chasing Han Chinese, and burning down buildings.

Let me search for the pictures I saw yesterday where a Tibetan mob knocked a Chinese guy off his bike and beat the daylights out of him.

Peaceful protests? Hahahaha...yeah right.

Hahaha...gov't disinfo agents? I wish. I might have more money. That's some extremely paranoid thinking. Why would the Chinese gov't care at all what people on ATS say? 99.9% of Chinese people don't even know what ATS is, let alone have the ability to read and make sense of the posts in English.

reply to post by biggie smalls


the picture are the protestors in other country rounded up the chinese embassy.

yes, you naturaly think there are must be something instigate the protestors bad mood and then kiling and burning... .but i told you they are hired by someone else and earned hundreds of RMB one day, the more destruction, the better paymen...believe it or not...your right.

to crachdown the riot is every country's option... dont blame China only... i am afraid of more deaths of rioters occur if such things take place in USA.