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Chinese Security Forces Swarm Tibet

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posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 11:37 PM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 


It is no use making groundless accusation like that.

I already read quite something. I don't want to comment on what you listed because those are not confirmed. If yoy say that the data included what the Chinese government announced, then why did they deny? You just need to list what the Chinese government provided.

And I don't think what is going on in Iraq is sponsored by the UN because it IS not. Do some homework, please.

BTW, I happened to work in the chinese location of my company and talked with people there, and I visisted Lhasa several years ago. What I heard and saw was quite different from what is popular about Tibet here.




[edit on 22-3-2008 by fuelcell]




posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 11:46 PM
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Originally posted by sy.gunson
If so then why has China not abided to article #4 ?


They did abided by it.

Only after the Tibetans started waging a CIA sponsored guerilla war and fled is when they actually started reforms in Tibet after their agreement was broken



or do you refer to the monasteries destroyed in the cultural revolution


Where was the Dalai Lama?. Oh yeah, in India renouncing the agreement, why would we upkeep the agreement then?



.and if the Tibetan government was not a sovereign power why did China demand that the Tibetan Government had to sign at all





Oh gee, I wonder.........



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 12:07 AM
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China's oppression of the sovereign people of Tibet must come to an end before the Oly. Games.

I hope all countries boycott the China games in support of Tibet and Taiwan.

Not only that, but we shouldn't allow our athletes to have to breathe the smog they call air there.



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by US Monitor
 


OK, eventually the evil purpose of you hypocriticals come up under the sunlight.

OK, please boycott the olympics, nothing can be changed.
we are confident while you always live in fear, i really cant understand where the fear come from.



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 12:19 AM
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Oh gee, I wonder.........


China the invading power negotiated with Tibet's Government because they were the sovereign power.





posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 12:24 AM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 


tell me that before 1949, what the tibet looked like? what kind of country it was? who ever recognize that?



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 12:28 AM
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And I don't think what is going on in Iraq is sponsored by the UN because it IS not. Do some homework, please.


You do your research. Go read Security Council Resolution 1500 dated 14 August 2003 and resolution 1511 dated 16 October 2003.





posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by sy.gunson



And I don't think what is going on in Iraq is sponsored by the UN because it IS not. Do some homework, please.


You do your research. Go read Security Council Resolution 1500 dated 14 August 2003 and resolution 1511 dated 16 October 2003.






LOL, 1500 cared about the reconstruction of Iraq while 1511 was the resolution on the future political arrangement of Iraq.



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 12:45 AM
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reply to post by wwssii
 


I'm happy to see that you looked up the resolutions and were able to confirm Sy's point.




posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 12:54 AM
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wwssii asked:


tell me that before 1949, what the tibet looked like? what kind of country it was? who ever recognize that?


* Convention Between Great Britain and Thibet 1904
*Peace Treaty Between Ladakh and Tibet at Tingmosgang (1684)
*Treaty Between Tibet and Nepal 1856
*Agreement Between Tibet and Kashmir 1852
*Agreement Between Great Britain, China and Tibet Amending Trade Regulations of 1893 (dated 1908) which recognises Tibet's frontier with China in eastern Sichuan and China's acknowledgement of Tibet as a sovereign nation.
*Convention Between Great Britain, China, and Tibet, Simla 1914
*Anglo-Tibetan Declaration (1914)
*Agreement for the Restoration of Peaceful Relations Between China and Tibet (1918)
* Treaty of Friendship and Alliance between the Government of Mongolia and Tibet 1913:
* Supplementary Agreement Regarding Mutual Withdrawal of Troops and Cessation of Hostilities Between Chinese and Tibetans (1918) China recognised Tibet's border with Sichuan and Tibet as a sovereign nation.



TREATY OF FRIENDSHIP AND ALLIANCE

Concluded Between the Government

of Mongolia and Tibet at Urga

29 December 1912 (11 January 1913)

(translation of the Tibetan text)

Mongolia and Thibet, having freed themselves from the dynasty of the Manchus and separated from China, have formed their own independent States, and, having in view that both States from time immemorial have professed one and the same religion, with a view to strengthening their historic and mutual friendship the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Nikta Biliktu Da-Lama Rabdan, and the Assistant Minister, General and Manlai baatyr beiseh Damdinsurun, as plenipotentiaries of the Government of the ruler of the Mongol people, and gudjir tsanshib kanchen-Lubsan-Agvan, donir Agvan Choinzin, director of the Bank Ishichjamtso, and the clerk Gendun Galsan, as plenipotentiaries of the Dalai Lama, the ruler of Thibet,'have made the following agreement.

Article 1. The ruler of Thibet, Dalai Lama, approves and recognizes the formation of an independent Mongol State, and the proclamation, in the year of the pig and the ninth day of the eleventh month, of Chjebzun Damba Lama of the yellow faith as ruler of the country.

Article 2. The ruler of the Mongol people, Chjebzun Damba Lama, approves and recognizes the formation of an independent (Thibetan) State and the proclamation of the Dalai Lama as ruler of Thibet.

Article 3. Both States will work by joint consideration for the well-being of the Buddhist faith.

Article 4. Both States, Mongolia and Thibet, from now and for all time will afford each other assistance against external and internal dangers.

Article 5. Each State within its own territory will afford assistance to the subjects of the other travelling officially or privately on affairs of religion or State.

Article 6. Both States, Mongolia and Thibet, as formerly, will carry on a reciprocal trade in the products of their respective countries in wares, cattle, &c., and will also open industrial establishments.

Article 7. From now the granting of credit to anyone will be permitted only with the knowledge and sanction of official institutions. Without such sanction Government institutions will not consider claims.

As regards contracts made previous to the conclusion of the present treaty, where serious loss is being incurred through the inability of the two parties to come to terms, such debts may be recovered by (Government) institutions, but in no case shall the debt concern "shabinars" or "khoshuns."

Article 8. Should it prove necessary to supplement the articles of the present treaty, the Mongolian and Thibetan Governments must appoint special delegates, who will conclude such agreements as the conditions of the time shall demand.

Article 9. The present treaty shall come into force from the date of its signature.

Plenipotentiaries from the Mongolian Government for the conclusion of the treaty: Nikta Biliktu Da-Lama Rabdan, Minister for Foreign Affairs; and General and Manlai baatyr beiseh Damdinsurun, Assistant Minister.

Plenipotentiaries from the Dalai Lama, the ruler of Thibet, for the conclusion of the treaty: Gudjir tsanshib kanchen Lubsan-Agvan, Choinzin, the Director of the Bank of Thibet Ishichjamtsa, and the clerk, Gendun-Galsan.

Signed (by Mongol reckoning) in the fourth day of the twelfth month of the second year of the "Raised by the Many," and by Thibetan reckoning on the same day and month of the year of the "water-mouse."



Is that enough wssii ?
Do they teach you about these treaties in Chinese schools ?

I bet they don't.






posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 12:55 AM
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reply to post by Witness2008
 


i regret that you show your ignorance again.
after the Iraq war, UN participate in the solution of iraqi issues postwar.
before the iraq war, UN issued nothing to allow the USA to wage the evil war.

LOL....low understanding only makes you more laughable. my witeness.



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 01:03 AM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 


in Qing dynasty, british invaded the tibet. but you should know all the claims of british were presented to the Qing emporer, the central goverment of China at that time... other things you listed are similar to this.

as for mongolia, LOL, i am mongolian, i am Chinese also. so, do you understand the relationship between Mongolia and China?



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 01:14 AM
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in Qing dynasty, british invaded the tibet. but you should know all the claims of british were presented to the Qing emporer, the central goverment of China at that time... other things you listed are similar to this.


The Qing emperor signed this agreement
*Agreement for the Restoration of Peaceful Relations Between China and Tibet (1918)
and this agreement
*Supplementary Agreement Regarding Mutual Withdrawal of Troops and Cessation of Hostilities Between Chinese and Tibetans (1918)

Recognising the government of Tibet and it's border with China where it says this at article 3:




3. It is agreed that the provisional boundary line between Chinese and Tibetan controlled territory shag be as follows: The districts of Batang (Bean), Yenching (Tsakalo), Itun (Sanpa or Taso), Tejung (a), Litang, (Lihua), Kantze, Nyarong (Chantui or Chanhua), Luho (Changku or Drango)(b), Taofu (Taowu), Hokou (Nyachuka or Yachiang), Tachienlu (Dartsendo or Kangting), Tanpa (Romidrango)(c), Lutingchiao (Jazamaka)(e), Chiulung (Jezerong)(d), Hsiangcheng (Tinghsiang)(f), and Taocheng(g), and the country lying to the east of them, shall be under the control of the Chinese; no Tibetan troops or civil or military officials being permitted to reside therein; while the districts of Riwoche (Leiwuchi), Enta(h), Chiamdo (Changtu), Draya (Chaya), Markam-Gartok (Chiangka or Ningching), Gonjo (Kungchueh), Sangen (Sangai or Wucheng), Tungpu (i), Tengko (k),**** Seshu (Shihchu), Derge (Teko), and Beyu (Paiyu), and the country lying to the west of them, shall be under the control of the Tibetans; no Chinese troops or civil or military officials being permitted to reside therein. As soon as the Governments of China and Tibet shall have formally accepted this agreement, all the Tibetan troops and civil and military officials at present in Kantze and Nyarong (Chantui) districts shall be withdrawn; the Chinese civil and military authorities engaging not to oppress or in any way maltreat the natives of those parts, including the Lamas of Dargye Gomba and other monasteries, after the withdrawal of the Tibetan troops. The existing boundaries of Yunnan Province and of the Kokonor (i.e., the territory at present under the control of the Sining officials) shall remain for the present unchanged.




as for mongolia, LOL, i am mongolian, i am Chinese also. so, do you understand the relationship between Mongolia and China?


You mean this relationship from the 1913 treaty ?



Mongolia and Thibet, having freed themselves from the dynasty of the Manchus and separated from China, have formed their own independent States, and, having in view that both States from time immemorial have professed one and the same religion, with a view to strengthening their historic and mutual friendship


Yeah I get it. The Manchu (Qing) Chinese dynasty repeatedly attacked and abused it's neighbours and is still doing so today.

I also realise that the Mongols invaded and conquered China.

Then the Mongol rulers were overthrown in China.

After that there was a constant state of war between the Dzungars and Manchu Chinese.

Now of course the Chinese have recruited traitors from amongst the mongols to denounce their own history to favour China



[edit on 22-3-2008 by sy.gunson]

[edit on 22-3-2008 by sy.gunson]



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 01:28 AM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 


you really know nothing about China's history. dont paste the garbage info from the anti-china webs.

dont use any word attacking my ethnics, be a decent man, again.

Qing dynasty lost much of China's land including HongKong, Macow. but now, they return back.

your quotation means nothing. YOU LOSE!



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 01:32 AM
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Originally posted by wwssii
LOL....low understanding only makes you more laughable. my witeness.


What's with the "witeness" thing? That's the second time, are you trying to be a funny secret internet ninja? Do you mean to say whiteness?


Anyway, I've noticed even more nationalist members popping up out of thin air with the same types of visual aids, posting styles, etc. The persistance is impressive guys. But i'm confused what your objectives are, most people don't look at UFO sites for their opinions of China. I guess you have the manpower to cover all your bases though, carry on.




[edit on 22-3-2008 by 27jd]



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by wwssii
 


wwssi...the history that Sy was posting is the same history of china the rest of the world knows. Do you suppose the whole world has been lying about your history for at least the last 50 years just so the world could embarrass china when Tibet finally rebelled against chinese rule for its own freedom? wwssi..your the one that loses.






[edit on 22-3-2008 by Witness2008]



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 01:42 AM
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your quotation means nothing. YOU LOSE!


Well if you can't debate the facts wwssii, stick your head in a bucket and argue with yourself.

I am still waiting for you to tell us anything meaningful about the Qing Emperor's recognition of a boundary between Tibet and China in Eastern Sichuan in an international treaty witnessed by the British ?

Or is it simply inconvenient to answer that ?





posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 01:48 AM
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Anyway, I've noticed even more nationalist members popping up out of thin air with the same types of visual aids, posting styles, etc. The persistance is impressive guys. But i'm confused what your objectives are, most people don't look at UFO sites for their opinions of China. I guess you have the manpower to cover all your bases though, carry on.


Yeah well I wondered to because if i were just a silent observer I'd be struggling to understand how the Chinese prove anything except they have a false claim to Tibet.

They have not yet attempted... much less succeeded to convince anyone otherwise.

All they are doing is attracting more negative attention to China.
Not that I am complaining. I am so grateful they're even willing to try and defend the invasion and occupation of Tibet.





posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 01:48 AM
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reply to post by 27jd
 


so you mean it is only right that all chinese should stay in the chinese forum?
as for the internet brigade, i am really tired of replying such stupid imagination. dont take ATS so seriously.
now, i have the interest to defend my country and let you know the other side of things. you like China or not doesnt matter too much for me as an individual. Chinese never attack other nations on the forum, but you do. that is weird.

especialy in terms of tibet, so many of you insist on the attack to China, i also doubt what the purpose you have and the relation between you and the Dalai.

american want to police the world, i can understand. but people from other nations such as new zealand and finland also join the debate bashing china. what is the things to do with you?. history is not written by you but by Chinese, we ourselve really know the truth. our ancestors are eying us in the sky, we cant endure any split of motherland at all. that is the case. i occationaly found the ATS and then logged on to find something interesting. but what makes me disappointed is the whole ATS full of China-bashing post. that is why i stay here to do something.

you boast yourselve as peace-loving ppl, i find nothing.. now, i want to ask you to speak something positive on China, can you? of course, no. that is the case. you just like attacking China. why? can you explain this?



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 


British colonized the tibet and Qing emporer surrendered. just like hongkong, and macow. cant be more simple and plain.

showing some decorum will make you more like a human.
dirty words attacking only make you lose more not only the debate.



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