Chinese Security Forces Swarm Tibet

reply to post by GoldenGalaxy


Your a poet GoldenGalaxy. I think the systematic genocide by the chinese against Tibetans is due to the fact that the chinese could not imprison the Buddhist, Tibetan mind.

reply to post by GoldenGalaxy


it is really sentimental to sing something poem-like. but this will never add any truth indeed.

those true monks are living very good lives, dont worry about them vainly.

it would be more rational to debate with an mannered way other than dirty words, right?

Originally posted by biggie smalls
The Chinese have been treating them like dogs

And which minority has not felt the same?

Your name seems to be a reference to "biggie", the African American rap signer?. Him and everyone else claims to be treated like dogs and hunted by the police, why are the Tibetans any different? Paris Riots, Aboriginals in Australia.

and deserve to be treated as equals.

Equals???

They enjoy more freedom than the Han Chinese.

- Exempt from the one child policy
- Free education, university placements
- Government subsidies ( if they didn't provide these funds than the Tibetans would most likely starve)

The only problem is economic and that is because they refuse to work, they like most minorities have no business sense and you cant expect the government to just make them rich


A good example is Australia and its indigenous population.

They are on social welfare payments, which normal Australians are not
They have set places in Universities such as a score to get in might be 80 and they can get in with 70 or 75
Free health care, although they choose not to use it because its to far away

reply to post by chinawhite


Your propaganda here only inflames the already ill feelings most of us have against chinas' human rights violations. So the little disinformation campaign is failing miserably.

Originally posted by Witness2008
Your propaganda here only inflames the already ill feelings most of us have against chinas' human rights violations. So the little disinformation campaign is failing miserably.

Attack the information, not the person

So you think just saying my post is "propaganda' just nullifies my argument?.

[edit on 18-3-2008 by chinawhite]

Let's all get back to the subject at hand, and stop with the personal baiting.

This is a serious subject, worthy of discussion. But that needs to be done in a civil manner.

Carry on.

I like poetry, low doggerel is another matter.

Again, to both "sides' of this.

Civility WILL be enforced.

*Snip*

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[edit on 3/18/08 by niteboy82]

We have been brainwashed BY OUR OWN GOVERNMENT.

OUR OWN GOVERNMENT is using propaganda. They want you to believe whatever they want and you're falling right for it like opium.

reply to post by Witness2008


And actually I can confirm two of chinawhite's points with my own experience from a visit to China half a year ago (and don't think I'm some Chinese government agent because that is just ridiculous). Tibetans are absolutely exempt from China's one-child policy. They can have AS MANY children as they want. According to the law, Tibetans are politically a part of China and would normally be under the same laws.

They also get TOP PRIORITY university placement and "racial advantages" (not sure of exactly what to call this).

These experiences I confirm are real and I assure you I'm not just sitting here spitting out lies. I was in Qingdoa about 8 months ago, working in collaboration with a college professor on a funded project on robotics.

However, I truthfully cannot confirm the government subsidies but I don't think it would be so hard to believe. Many of the Tibetans really don't work and so they would need that money (which just spoils them).

These reports about 400 dead Tibetans, etc. are just LIES.

SHOW ME those that have died. SHOW ME. I want to see photos of dead Tibetan monks as proof. All I have seen are either

#1) Burning buildings (which are Chinese buildings the Tibetans burned, by the way)
#2) Tibetans attacking Chinese police and innocents
#3) A bunch of American articles all claiming greatly differing numbers of total Tibetan deaths.

I want solid PROOF. Just because some corrupted part of our government which controls all of America's media puts out some articles written in TEXT (no pictures as proof) does not mean speaks the TRUTH.

Until the U.S. starts providing some videos/photos of many DEAD Tibetans (like the 400 someone claimed had died), I absolutely will not believe these large numbers.

It is just amazing how idiotic some people are and how they will just take anyone's word for something.

I always think something through myself. This was a no-brainer as China was the only country who is providing evidence. What about all said Western reporters out there? They know how to use a camera, I'm sure (besides for filming irrelevant stuff like rioted buildings).

And also, this seventeen point agreement is only stated on two websites, both Tibetan websites (including FreeTibet). Do you seriously expect me to believe that it's genuine? Articles (including the one on Wikipedia) all point to FreeTibet as a source. What the hell is that?

That's like saying: "I made an agreement with the U.S. president 50 years ago to give me part of Texas. I am posting this on my personal website. Therefore this is proof that this agreement exists."

NO, wrong, wrong, wrong!!! A reliable source CANNOT ever and may NOT ever be written by the defending or offending party! That is one of the biggest BSes I have ever seen!

~Greg

[edit on 18-3-2008 by morgul]

reply to post by morgul


I prefer to listen to those that have experienced the abuse and not the propaganda of the abusers. I dare you to read the link.

www.tibet.com...

Originally posted by morgul
Another perfect example of Western ignorance. Tell me, have you been reading news articles written by ignorant American historians lately?

Because I saw one article (by one of our own American historians, sadly) that said China claimed Tibet in 1951. That guy is a total idiot, spreading misinformation. Maps made before 1951 MADE BY TIBETANS themselves show Tibet as part of China.

Yes ignorance must be it. Or maybe its the fact I don't really care if Tibet was part of China for thousands of years or for the past 5 years.

If the Tibetans want to be free, they should be. Simple as that.

There's no arguing over what the map says or who is ignorant about what or anything of that matter.

Its my opinion.

Also, how do you know Chinese are treating the Tibetans like dogs? Have you been there? No. All you have seen are videos on CNN (which is controlled by our very corrupted government) that don't even show the Chinese brutally attacking the Tibetans as the news reports say. And if you look around on the internet, you see a lot of videos that CNN just seemed to miss for some reason...closer inspection reveals that in the videos, the Tibetans are burning and killing Chinese, just the opposite of what the news articles want you to believe (once again by media which is controlled through our shady U.S. government).

Uhuh. Does it matter if I've been there? #, my dad goes to China all the time. Does that count?

He can attest to their human rights violations. He turns a blind eye as foreign dissenters end up in prison for crude comments that elsewhere would leave one with a slap on the wrists.

I have posted pictures on this very thread implicating Chinese attacking Tibetans.

Chinese themselves have mentioned the abuse (students nonetheless). Who is lying to who?

I really don't believe everything I read/see in the media, in fact, very little of it. However, when I see a state treat a minority as lesser beings (as we do here in the US to "minorities") I take personal offense.

America is been known to try to separate Tibet and China in the past and they are apparently at it again. The more I read into this the more proof just keeps popping up all over the internet with more and more evidence against what information America is attempting to spread.

Stumason is correct, Tibet was part of China several hundred years ago, long before the U.S. even EXISTED.

Once again, I really don't care and find it irrelevant.

It would be completely hypocritical to say for China to give up Tibet. Why? What about all this?:

-Americans tortured, killed, deceived, and drove the Native Americans out of their land into these small little reserves with terrible conditions (meaning the "lucky" ones that weren't slaughtered). The Native Americans didn't even have riots like the Tibetans; they were just brutally robbed of everything they had without a second thought.
-Americans brought over slaves from Africa. These Africans (whom are HUMAN BEINGS) were truly treated like dogs, if not even worse. When they put them on the slave ships, they would separate them from their families and tribes and shove them all into a large room where many died from starvation and sicknesses.
-America's violation of the chemical weapons convention by using chemicals specifically banned for warfare.
-America's censoring and removal of evidence on its military abuse against Afghans and Iraqis.

If you have bothered to read my post history, you will notice I am one of the most outspoken critics of US policy.

I have in fact made threads/posts mentioning the A). indigenous holocaust, B). slavery, other various human rights violations including the use of chemical weapons, depleted uranium munitions, the use of the only nuclear bomb ever in wartime, etc etc and C). our bull# wars and the treatment of the aforementioned peoples.

Whatever you are, don't be a hypocrite.

Thanks Greg but I don't think you know me well enough to say that.

Any more comments?

Originally posted by biggie smalls
Uhuh. Does it matter if I've been there? #, my dad goes to China all the time. Does that count?

Does he go to Tibet or China proper?

He turns a blind eye as foreign dissenters end up in prison for crude comments that elsewhere would leave one with a slap on the wrists.

If I said the same thing in a "crude" way I would be pepper strayed and taken into custody. I have been to China regularly as well. Twice last year, once this year and probably another time in November sometime.

There is a SMALL police presence in China, in fact if you don't go to the big cities you will never see a police anywhere, so the only way to get arrested is for you to get told in by another citizen or to advertise yourself which most people do. This is excluding the toll ways in China which are manned by the state governments. Thats only if you travel a lot like me

I have posted pictures on this very thread implicating Chinese attacking Tibetans.

I have looked through all the pages for images and only found

1 picture of police trying to take a flag off someone and another which shows a Policeman taking a child to safety

Because I saw one article (by one of our own American historians, sadly) that said China claimed Tibet in 1951. That guy is a total idiot, spreading misinformation. Maps made before 1951 MADE BY TIBETANS themselves show Tibet as part of China.

Rubbish. There was a king Gyaltso around 800 AD who conquered the Chinese and if memory serves me correctly exacted marriage of a Chinese princess Wen Li.

In celebration of a peace treaty which followed an oblesk (stele) was errected beneath the Poltala Palace with inscription in stone of the terms and in that the border between tibet and China was stipulated at the bridge across the river Tatu at Kangting, about 120 miles east of Chengdu.

That stele was walled off at Lhasa by the Chinese invaders so that nobody now is allowed to read the historical inscriptions.

When the communists invaded and subjugated the Tibetan people at gunpoint (much as the Nazis did to the French) some Tibetans collaborated (much as Quisling did in Norway, or the Vichy in France). Those collaborators hewlped the Chinese rewrite history to absolve the invasion.

That is the source of your maps. It was a blatent invasion in 1949. The Dalai Lama at first tried to appease the Chinese and go along with them to prevent bloodshed.

FREE TIBET

Originally posted by chinawhite
Does he go to Tibet or China proper?

Beijing and Hong Kong usually, but I know he's traveled into the country as well. I don't believe he's been to Tibet, but its quite possible.

If I said the same thing in a "crude" way I would be pepper strayed and taken into custody. I have been to China regularly as well. Twice last year, once this year and probably another time in November sometime.

The police presence in the US actually is pretty ruthless and brutal, so I can't really comment on Chinese police.

To be honest, the Chinese police seem like girl scouts compared to some of the cops I've met/seen in the states.

I have looked through all the pages for images and only found 1 picture of police trying to take a flag off someone and another which shows a Policeman taking a child to safety

A lot of the Tibetan protestors are in exile, so granted there aren't any Chinese police attacking them.

However, I have found a few pictures if you really are interested:








I've actually found more Indian police in scuffles with the Tibetan protestors than the Chinese. Weird.

I've actually found more Indian police in scuffles with the Tibetan protestors than the Chinese. Weird.

What's weird is that you don't put two and two together.

Are you unaware that tourists were ordered out of Tibet and journalists have been banned. If they have nothing to hide why ban Journalists ?

You talk of how inconspicuous the Chinese police are.

Has it ever occured to you that chinese and Tibetans both live in a country much like East Germany used to be under the Stassi, where people so lived in fear of secret denunciation by secret police informers, that nobody dared express a personal opinion.

That's why the Chinese are quiet and well behaved ... duh think about it.

That's the difference between western democracy and that place where the Olympics are being held.

reply to post by sy.gunson


If they have nothing to hide why ban Journalists ?
=====

simple and plain. they are liars and never take China with a objective attitude. they always like to scrutinize any small errors then amplify that to the world public to demonize China.

simple and plain. they are liars and never take China with a objective attitude. they always like to scrutinize any small errors then amplify that to the world public to demonize China.

Oh okay so only the reports permitted by the Chinese Government are true and everything else...

All the photos and video smuggled out of Tibet and viewed on CNN (which I assume you can't see because you're probably Chinese), you say that's lies ?

And I suppose you say Tibet is and always has been part of China because that's what you were always taught at school ?

So tell me, if Tibet was always ethnically Tibetan and always had it's own distinct different language and written language, plus it's own religion and leaders, what right do Chines people have to live there and control the Tibetans ?

FREE TIBET








[edit on 19-3-2008 by sy.gunson]

Originally posted by biggie smalls
To be honest, the Chinese police seem like girl scouts compared to some of the cops I've met/seen in the states.

Thats what I thought as well. Then I thought that their main duties would be paper pushing and other non-physical tasks because unlike in the US people don't normally attack police or are to rough to handle. I've seen American police task on TV like [police tapes : declassified] which can be called "rough justice"

I've actually found more Indian police in scuffles with the Tibetan protestors than the Chinese. Weird.

You wouldn't believe how rough they get. In Australia the other day a crowd attacked one off-duty police man of Chinese appearance and then proceeded to hit the other officers. I'm quite certain he was a off-duty policeman

[edit on 19-3-2008 by chinawhite]

reply to post by sy.gunson


CNN is a typical anti-China media, have you ever seen any positvie comments from CNN?

what i know comes from many sources such as friends in tibet, TV also involved.
history lies in the land and the hearts of tibetans. historian that taught you maybe also a liar.