Chinese Security Forces Swarm Tibet

Originally posted by morgul
Anyone who dismisses our own actions as being acceptable for the torturing and sexual abuse of middle eastern prisoners but think another country's equally brutal actions are something to spit at is truly a heartless monster themselves.

Where has anyone stated this? I constantly point out how disingenuous the American government is. That doesn't mean every person in the government is corrupt, same with the Chinese.

We are a country with a very dark past. Our countrymen have been responsible for the Indigenous Holocaust, African slavery, indentured servitude, multiple foreign wars, setting up puppet states, etc etc.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I spend most of my day pointing out the evils of the American Empire.

I think I can take some time to point out other evil regimes.

reply to post by TheComte


Well said. I feel the same.

It would take a very illogical mind that does not see far to simply say, "Because Tibetan monks have died, I think I won't watch the Olympics!"

I think for some people it is a little too late to introduce logic to them so there's no more point in pursuing an attempt to explain to them the disconnection between an international sport and reports of Chinese crimes.

Since we Americans torture so many of those Afghans and Iraqi prisoners out there and even kill some, should we ban/boycott NFL games? Should we no longer buy from American companies?

Hypocrisy runs thick in this thread. Apparently some brainless idiots don't seem to be aware of our own country's brutality (which obviously isn't found being aired much on national television; our slippery government has that properly censored out).

~Greg

Originally posted by morgul
It would take a very illogical mind that does not see far to simply say, "Because Tibetan monks have died, I think I won't watch the Olympics!"

I have made countless threads on why one should boycott the Olympics.

Care to read a few of them?

Beijing's death camp for cats

Before Olympic Games, China quells dissent (more human rights travesties)

I will be boycotting because the Chinese have added fuel to the fire in the Darfur genocide. Check a page or two back I posted some links.

Any more questions?

reply to post by biggie smalls


Well very good, I'm glad I'm not the only one here who is aware of our own corruption.

As I just posted, we are pure hypocrites if we ban the 2008 Olympics for Chinese actions but not ban our own international games/events for what we have done which is just as terrible.

reply to post by Rockpuck


A few individuals here or there, sure. But let's have a vote. All the athletes of each country vote on 'should their country boycott'. Majority rules. No way any country votes yes, just no way. Of course, I'm all for people standing up for their principles. If someone wants to make a statement by boycotting, more power to them. Just watch out for those regrets.

I call on everyone who is urging a boycott of the Olympic Games to read this article, and then put yourself in the position of an athlete caught in the middle of political struggles between nations. I have excerpted and highlighted relevant passages.

www.usatoday.com...

They are in their 40s now, the age when people tend to start celebrating anniversaries, if only this were one to celebrate. Why would they want to remember this? Why note the anniversary of something they were prevented from doing, the anniversary of the worst moment of their athletic lives?

Said Beardsley, 44, who went on to work on Wall Street, "If it was going to do some good, then we could sacrifice. But as time went on, as we realized what little impact it had, I became angry for what the boycott did to all these people, my friends and teammates, and people in all those other countries too."

"What really hits home to me about the boycott was the Soviets didn't pull out of Afghanistan for nine years," Caulkins said. "Did it put any pressure on them? No, it was just a missed opportunity for many athletes. It just doesn't seem fair."

The Soviets and East Germans returned the favor in 1984, boycotting L.A. and lessening the competition at the 1984 Games. In a 1991 interview, Russian swimming legend Vladimir Salnikov said he still lamented not facing the Americans in Moscow in 1980, and again in L.A. in 1984. The matching boycotts robbed an entire generation of athletes on both sides of the Iron Curtain of their greatest competition on the world's grandest stage.

Solve Tibet another way. Leave the Olympics and the athletes out of it. Nobody cares if you don't watch.

[edit on 17-3-2008 by TheComte]

reply to post by biggie smalls


Ok, interesting. But just answer this and please don't avoid it: We have committed equally brutal crimes as the Chinese and every other country run by human beings. But why should we boycott the Chinese Olympics but not our own events?

To me, that is truly selfish, immoral, and shows the true quality of a hypocrite.

reply to post by TheComte


Really? The athletes will if compelled as individuals boycott the olympics. Follow the link below.

www.abc.net.au...

I can live without chinese products, have since the mid 80's. You make a lot of statements on the mindset of a lot of people you do not know.How is it you can see into minds and hearts?

reply to post by TheComte


Again speaking on the behalf of others. The article you linked was from 2005. This is 2008 and maybe the regrets from not boycotting the olympics could be even more severe.

reply to post by Witness2008


I followed your link. Here is the only mention of athletes wanting to boycott the Olympics:

Just months away from the Olympics, there are now reports that some athletes may be considering a boycott of the Beijing Games.

You couldn't have picked a better reference? It says there are "now reports" that "some athletes" may boycott Big deal. You have to do better than that. I already acknowledged that some individuals will probably boycott due to their personal views. In no way does this indicate it's a widely held notion among all athletes.

Now, did you read my post? The article? Do you honestly think the athletes as a whole want a boycott?

I think I've made my point pretty well but you ask how can I know? I'll tell you in my youth I was a pretty good athlete. I may not have made it big, but I know something of what goes on in the their minds. There is a drive to compete and excel. To do so on the world stage is the dream of every child. Olympic boycotts only do one thing: victimize athletes.

reply to post by TheComte


Again you know what is in the minds of others. Explain this incredible gift you have of reading minds.

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by TheComte

 

Again you know what is in the minds of others. Explain this incredible gift you have of reading minds.

Do you not read what I post? Seriously. I just explained it. You obviously have nothing further of value to add to the thread so please stop repeating yourself.

reply to post by TheComte


Could it be that a big athlete and a not so big athlete might think about the world in different ways, given especially the olympics are for athletes all over the world. We don't all think in chinese terms.

reply to post by morgul


I think the world should boycott the US for what we're doing in Iraq and Afghanistan personally.

I try to boycott every company I think is corrupt and highly dislike American politicians.

It is not hypocritical to boycott the Chinese Olympics. I would hope other countries would do the same if we had it here instead.

mistake, ignore it

[edit on 17-3-2008 by Odessit]

More news from the East.

China's tough line in Tibet is seen to have brought only resentment

Oh, really? I wonder why.

The Chinese are even protesting the treatment of the Tibetans:


Chinese paramilitary police patrolling Monday in Tongren, in Qinghai Province, after demonstrations spilled over from Tibet. (Cara Anna/The Associated Press)








Police officers keeping guard in Tongren, Qinghai province, China, on Monday. (Kyodo News via AP)

Champa Phuntsok, the taciturn chairman of Tibet's government, left no doubt Monday morning on whose shoulders the Communist Party places blame for the violent Tibetan protests that have become a domestic political crisis and an Olympic-year public relations nightmare: the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled spiritual leader, and "splittist" forces colluding to splinter China.

The Communist Party is blaming the Dalai Lama for the protests and ensuing riots.

Maybe he feels the Tibetans should be treated as equals and free people? No, that would be too simple.

But to many Tibetans and their sympathizers, the unleashed fury is sad and shocking yet not a complete surprise. Tibetan anger has simmered over Chinese policies on the environment, tightening religious restrictions and a harder political line from Beijing. Ethnic tensions and economic anxiety have also sharpened as Chinese migrants have poured into Lhasa, the capital of Tibet.

Ditto to above.

"Why did the unrest take off?" asked Liu Junning, a liberal political scientist in Beijing. "I think it has something to do with the long-term policy failure of the central authorities. They failed to earn the respect of the people there."

At least there's one person paying attention.

For now, Beijing's hard line on Tibet is only likely to get harder. Military police officers are pouring into Tibetan regions to stifle new protests. Nor are the demonstrations winning sympathy in a nation that is 94 percent Han Chinese. State media have tightly controlled coverage to focus on Tibetans burning Chinese businesses or attacking and killing Chinese merchants. No mention is made of Tibetan grievances or reports that 80 or more Tibetans have died.

A biased media reports what the government wants them to report in China. That sounds mighty familiar to our corporate controlled media giants of Faux News, Nothing But Crap, and the rest of the liars.

With less than five months before the opening of the Olympics, Beijing is acutely worried about an international backlash and is arguing that its response to the protests has been reasonable. No one mentions the bloody 1989 crackdown against pro-democracy protesters in Tiananmen Square, but its shadow is obvious. Phuntsok said the military police and other officers were not carrying lethal weapons and had not fired a single shot - despite many witnesses reporting gunshots.

Again and again we hear the Chinese worried about their pathetic Olympics. Maybe they should pay more attention to their citizens and stop worrying about their damn sponsors they wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.


This part just got me rolling on the floor laughing:

"What democratic country in the world could tolerate this violent behavior?" Phuntsok asked Monday, framing the crisis as a law-and-order issue.

Democracy? What a joke. There are no true democracies, let alone the Communist Party of China.

[edit on 3/17/2008 by biggie smalls]

They should just have the games in another country that already has had them recently and that way everything is still set up for it. I know its a huge task but it is still doable.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

^^ not only in china - but in the good `ole USA.

reply to post by biggie smalls


Could the fact that the world is watching so closely the actions of the chinese government embolden the dissenting voices from within? The fact that there are Tibetan sympathizers on the streets and now an academic speaking his mind makes me think that much of the chinese populace would see this a chance to be heard.

reply to post by TheComte



just give up arguing with him, he is on a crusade against China only, if more people in USA believe China is evil like he is propaganding, and decide to stop buying Chinese products, he will only profit from it, because it will help the sales of his local (US) candle making shop in the States, which supposedly have a 'superior' quality over any Chinese Candle Making competitor

you don't see him swarming other "so-called human right abuses" events

Professor Barry Sautman from Hong Kong University says economic conditions in Tibet are playing a key role.

Indeed young men who became rioters to use a cover of "supporting the peaceful monks", but decided to burn businesses and public properties down to Earth, worst is the killing and murdering of other ethnics Han Chinese and Muslims.

If these young men could only think clearly and look for a proper job in the economic more developed areas, where there is a huge labour shortage all over China, because the spoiled younger generations in these more developed areas believe that with dropping out of high school and play in the internet bars makes them too worthy for a factory job, they should understand if you did not study properly which everyone is given a chance then you can not expect an office job... *sigh* tragic...

reply to post by IchiNiSan


The economics of the area certainly plays a role in the unrest due to the fact that Tibetans are treated differently than the majority Han population. The crack down on religious practice and the simple fact that Tibetans feel that china occupies their country. There are several links throughout the thread that give evidence to the grievances of the Tibetans.

The treatment by young people by the Chinese government contradicts your claims of education even for chinese people. I hope you can read the link. If you can I would be interested in your opinion on what it says.

ihscslnews.org...

I do not think China at large is evil, I do however think the authoritarian goverment is corrupt and brutal.