The Jesus Delete.

Except it's way arguable that what was written about Jesus was soon ENOUGH after his death. Why haven't there been any scholars who have found the "smoking gun" of Jesus' existence? Because there isn't any such gun; at least now. I invite Ashley D (or anyone) to enumerate, as specifically and thoroughly as possible, the "12 or so" points (presumably outside of scripture) that indicate, clearly enough, that Jesus was real. I'm really more curious, wanting to know, rather than being contrarian.

reply to post by Lightworth

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We don't have a smoking gun for Caesar. It's merely because he didn't do anything miraculous that people accept his existence.

reply to post by Lightworth

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If everyone had in their possession one book, and they had read that book multiple times, knowing its contents inside and out and one day, that book took on a life of its own in the form of a person and began to go about doing things that bore witness to everything in that book, which should have been obvious to those who had read it from cover to cover, multiple times, yet, couldn’t make the connection: that the black and white print was standing right in front of them in living color, I have to ask, what good would it have done for the author of that book to add any evidence outside, what he originally wrote, as proof for anything? The book still exists, the words are there in black and white and the author ever lives to bear witness to what is written.

If we look closely, Jesus had a work to do, which had been recorded within scripture and his sole purpose was only to fulfill what had already been written beforehand concerning Him. Since He is the Word and the Word is still being fulfilled through Him, whatever physical evidence which may be lacking, personal writings or otherwise, the evidence (words) are manifesting all the time by way of fulfilled prophecies, words coming to life, just like He (The Word) manifested and became sight.

reply to post by Conspiriology

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YW... but truth be told, I simply call it as I see it. Sometimes my statements are popular, sometimes they're not. Either way I let my voice be heard. I personally have big issues with people criticizing someone else's religion. Trying to prove that Jesus didn't exist does nothing but widen the gap between Christians and everyone else. It's counter-productive in my opinion, and I won't stand on the sidelines while people try to pass falsehoods off as fact.

I'm sorry to inform you all, Ioshaua (Joshaua), the man that is known as "Jesus" (the one that comes in truth) "Christ" (chosen one of God) is real.

However and unfortunally the church system made the charactor of "JESUS" savior of mankind so unrealistic that logical minds are seeing through the lies and control.

So What Jesus should be deleted and what Jesus should be kept?
Is there any easy answers to this?
Is there an answer at all?
Should or should you not care and why/whynot?

The "Christian" churches version of "Jesus" is a mythological creature, that can be seen as a lie within organic logical thinking conscious minds.

It's actually gone on a longer than a couple of years, it's just that we've 'just noticed' it more recently. Here is what the Truth say's:

(2 Thessalonians 2:7)
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.


(1 John 2:19)
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

When all else fails and you need answers you can find them in the Word.
I'm curious if anyone is reading the Bible??? Not talking purely of you Incarnated, but the general population. There appears to be more debating going on with the wind, than the Truth.

Who is at the center? (Matthew 24:15)
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Why is this a drive? (John 14:30)
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
(Revelation 12:12)
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Whose fault is it really?(2 Thess 2:10)And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

You need not ask anyone really those questions because they're all there in the Word. It was foretold that these things would happen and the reasons why. There is only one Truth, the rest is a lie, if a person chooses not the Truth, then they've chosen the path of deception, so God send them into derision for that cause. It is so simple, believe in the Word of God, believe that He died for you, the world, to set us free from death, sin and darkness, but see, that's too easy, nowadays anything that's free or easy cannot be accepted as such, "there must be a catch" so some people tend to take the simplicity which is in Christ and make it impossible and difficult to fathom or believe, it's a train of thought that certainly is not taught in Scripture, it's a way of thinking that is taught by the world/education/society to thwart us from the truth. It's a perception that comes from this world and the prince of it and there is no truth in him, remember.

And another thing, to clarify, it's not about who "I" think is at the center, it's about who God knows is at the center, but is a mystery to us, but we believe and trust God because HE is ALL knowing and can see those who eat at that same table and tell lies...etc see Daniel.

Here is one of my most favorite psalms and why people should not fear this 'new world order' 'illuminati' propaganda blah because.....

(Psalm 2:1-6 )
1 Why do the nations rage and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD and against his anointed, saying,
3 “Let us burst their bonds apart and cast away their cords from us.”
4 He who sits in the heavens laughs; the Lord holds them in derision.
5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath, and terrify them in his fury, saying,

6 As for me, I have set my King on Zion, my holy hill


So there is the end of that matter



[edit on 18-3-2008 by Elisha4Yah]

reply to post by Elisha4Yah

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I disagree. Sure if you want to get technical about it it has always been. When christianity was just a cult and rome was trying to stomp it out, it was there.

However I've noted a dynamic upswing in a short range time and that is what I am addressing.



[edit on 18-3-2008 by Incarnated]

The answer is still in what Elisha4Yah is saying. The king of this world (Satan) knows he has a very short time left and is using his full-strength power to let loose and cause as much derision within Christ's church and against Christ's true church as he possibly can. And the sad thing is...so many are falling for it...believing the lie.

It is only in the Word - Jesus - that we can find the truth. Everything else is a lie fomented by the evil one to trap as many people as he can before Christ returns to reunite himself with his Bride, the Church. And I firmly believe we are in the end times and what we are seeing is partially the end-times Church as revealed in Revelation.



[edit on 3/18/08 by idle_rocker]

Jesus is a trick on the gullible, and so is Mohamed.

Christianity and Islam are deliberate distortions of Judaism.

Contrary to the galut (exile) mentality that informs (misinforms) the majority of people's views about Judaism, Torah observance is not a superstitious religion like Xian and Islamian beliefs, but a practical philosophy of life grounded in reality and demanding the greatest freedom of choice possible.

www.outreachjudaism.org... Tovia Singer has answers for those who honestly want to know the historical facts and the truth.

THINK FOR YOURSELF. QUESTION AUTHORITY.

nitpick: we do have writings from Julius Caesar. the commentaries on the Gallic Wars for example. check out: ancienthistory.about.com...

Just to put the conspiracy angle back in for those who actually enjoy the feeling paranoia produces .....
What if this is an observer-created universe?
What if certain groups of people know this?
What if reality as we know it is simply the collective consciousness attempting to merge five or six million private universes.
Could there be some who know that shaping our beliefs will actualy shape reality?
Would such a group buy into t.v. hollywood, newspapers, magazines etc in an attempt to influence how we perceive the world and therefore influence the collective reality produced by the collective consciousness?
Now there's a conspircy for you. Take over the country? the world? Small stuff. How about an attempt to take over reality?
Discredit christianity? Perhaps they do not want that in their new world. Perhaps the key part of new world order is not 'new order' but literally, 'new world'
In an observer-created universe belief is of primary importance. The question here may be much more important than most realize.
Or maybe not

The age of Acquarius is upon us. The water bearer will be our new sign/symbol/avatar.

As with the signs/symbols/avatars of ages past,

The fish/fisher of men/Jesus will be deleted.

Sir, you are not telling the truth. What you are writing is the cover of being a Christian or a person attending the Church and never had attempted to learn about Jesus Christ. Remember that those souls you deceive will come back on you especially if you know the truth and then deceive, God have mercy on your soul.


reply to post by Neiby

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This is where it started and is now kicking into high gear to the New World Order and the age of the New Age Religion. This is the truth and the naysayers have not done their research or they are lying about the truth to distort the truth.......

Jesus is real and the Bible [KJV] is the true word of God. The book of Revelation is coming true as we have said for generations leading to now....here is the roots of the effort to silence the word of God and eliminate Jesus. Before the flaming starts I suggest that whoever does, do your research first as I have.........the answer is irrefutable, but not for naysayers. Do the research first..........

very very wide and very deep....soon to come to its fruition. The Illuminati inflitrated the Masons so that they could use the Masons as the cover....they are a mixture of Zionist Jews and Europeans that use the Jewish card as the other scapegoats. So, the "conspiracy theorist" say its a Masons conspiracy, others say its all a "jooooo's" [Jewish] conspiracy.....and the rest have not one clue. Its luciferian in nature and made up of 13 major families that worship Lucifer as a practice.

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

1776 "From the Jesuit College of Ingolstadt is said to have issued the sect known as ‘the Illuminati of Bavaria’ founded by Adam Weishaupt. Its nominal founder, however, seems to have played a subordinate though conspicuous role in the organization of this sect." [Occult Theocracy, Lady Queenborough, originally published in 1933] On May 1, 1776, the Order of the Illuminati was officially founded in the old Jesuit stronghold of Bavaria. The Company would now use the Jewish House of Rothschild to finance the French Revolution and the rise of Napoleon the Freemason with his Jesuit-trained advisor, Abbe Sieyes. In spite of the historical writings of the Jesuit Abbe Barruel, who blamed the Rothschild's and Freemasonry for the Revolution, it was the Society of Jesus that used these very tools to carry out the Revolution and punish the monarchs who dared to expel the Jesuits from their dominions. The Jesuits, having been expelled from the Spanish Empire, found refuge in Corsica. From there they raised up their great avenger, Napoleon Bonaparte. The Black Pope

1776, Adam Weishaupt, a famous Mason, had developed the Illuminati, a secret society within a secret society. One Masonic historian himself has stated that the goals include "found[ing] a new Hierarchy, to overturn all authority, and to press down all the Social Order under the level of Equality." Another Masonic historian stated "the express aim of the Order was to abolish Christianity, and overturn all civil government." In Weishaupt's own words, the Illuminati "will by degrees, and in silence, possess themselves of the government of the States, and make use of those means for this purpose...." illuminati_faq.htm


1785 President George Washington, in a letter written to the Reverend G. W. Snyder: "Reverend, Sir, it was not my intention to doubt that the doctrine of the Illuminati -- the principles of Jacobinism -- had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more satisfied of this fact than I am." Shortly before he died, President Washington was well aware that the Adam Weishaupt radical brand of Freemasonry, the Illuminati, had spread its poison to America.

"It doesn't matter who the people voted for; they always vote for us".
- Illuminati Statement -


1789 John Robison warned all Masonic leaders in America that the Illuminati had infiltrated into their lodges and on July 19, 1789; David Papen, President of Harvard University, issued the same warning to the graduating-class and lectured them on how the influence of Illuminism was acquitting on American politics and religion, and to top it off; John Quincy Adams, who had organized the New England Masonic Lodges, issued his warnings. He wrote three letters to Colonel William L. Stone, a top Mason, in which he exposed how Jefferson was using Masonic lodges for subversive Illuministic purposes. Those three letters are at this very time in Whittenburg Square Library in Philadelphia. In short; Jefferson, founder of the Democratic Party, was a member of the Illuminati which at least partly accounts for the condition of the party at this time and through infiltration of the Republican Party; we have exactly nothing of loyal Americanism today. THE ILLUMINATI AND THE COUNSEL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS




reply to post by Incarnated

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reply to post by Incarnated

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Actually, most information was communicated - orally. The Gospels were not even written for decades after the death of Jesus and are very much questioned now as to who the writers actually were (Synoptic Gospels).

There is so much debate with scholars as to the validity of the Greek or New Testament. Some books being applied to the apostles including Paul are thought to not have been written by them.

Again, although I believe the Bible to be inspired - more and more evidence is showing that perhaps my thoughts as to what to question, is a valid one.

No, man has distorted the truth. God of the Bible is real, Jesus is real as protrayed in the Bible. The Vatican and even charasmatic christian theology distorts the Bible by manmade rules. It is obvious about the Mormon, Jehovia Witnesses, et al...that does not accept Jesus Christ as savior is not looking at truth. .....Sorry to be so blunt but time is getting short.

I don't think the existence would be in question as much if it didn't seem like every six months somebody waves a big flag about some kind of wonderful archeological find that "proves" some portion of the New Testament, only to have that same find exposed as a fraud or misinterpretation in the following six months.

In particular, I'm thinking of the Ossuary of John, which everybody was hooting about somehow proving the Bible true, which later turned out to be a piece of junk. Although I could never figure out how finding the bone box of somebody named John who was the brother of somebody named Jesus would prove anything.

It's kind of sad in a way how many people strive so desperately to find some kind of physical or historical proof, as if their faith or the teachings themselves were not enough for them. People who say they believe, but really don't.

This is exactly the root system of the Illuminati, and the Luciferian theology that has been set up. for starters......

very very wide and very deep....soon to come to its fruition. The Illuminati inflitrated the Masons so that they could use the Masons as the cover....they are a mixture of Zionist Jews and Europeans that use the Jewish card as the other scapegoats. So, the "conspiracy theorist" say its a Masons conspiracy, others say its all a "jooooo's" [Jewish] conspiracy.....and the rest have not one clue. Its luciferian in nature and made up of 13 major families that worship Lucifer as a practice.

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

1776 "From the Jesuit College of Ingolstadt is said to have issued the sect known as ‘the Illuminati of Bavaria’ founded by Adam Weishaupt. Its nominal founder, however, seems to have played a subordinate though conspicuous role in the organization of this sect." [Occult Theocracy, Lady Queenborough, originally published in 1933] On May 1, 1776, the Order of the Illuminati was officially founded in the old Jesuit stronghold of Bavaria. The Company would now use the Jewish House of Rothschild to finance the French Revolution and the rise of Napoleon the Freemason with his Jesuit-trained advisor, Abbe Sieyes. In spite of the historical writings of the Jesuit Abbe Barruel, who blamed the Rothschild's and Freemasonry for the Revolution, it was the Society of Jesus that used these very tools to carry out the Revolution and punish the monarchs who dared to expel the Jesuits from their dominions. The Jesuits, having been expelled from the Spanish Empire, found refuge in Corsica. From there they raised up their great avenger, Napoleon Bonaparte. The Black Pope

1776, Adam Weishaupt, a famous Mason, had developed the Illuminati, a secret society within a secret society. One Masonic historian himself has stated that the goals include "found[ing] a new Hierarchy, to overturn all authority, and to press down all the Social Order under the level of Equality." Another Masonic historian stated "the express aim of the Order was to abolish Christianity, and overturn all civil government." In Weishaupt's own words, the Illuminati "will by degrees, and in silence, possess themselves of the government of the States, and make use of those means for this purpose...." illuminati_faq.htm

1785 President George Washington, in a letter written to the Reverend G. W. Snyder: "Reverend, Sir, it was not my intention to doubt that the doctrine of the Illuminati -- the principles of Jacobinism -- had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more satisfied of this fact than I am." Shortly before he died, President Washington was well aware that the Adam Weishaupt radical brand of Freemasonry, the Illuminati, had spread its poison to America.
"It doesn't matter who the people voted for; they always vote for us".
- Illuminati Statement -

1789 John Robison warned all Masonic leaders in America that the Illuminati had infiltrated into their lodges and on July 19, 1789; David Papen, President of Harvard University, issued the same warning to the graduating-class and lectured them on how the influence of Illuminism was acquitting on American politics and religion, and to top it off; John Quincy Adams, who had organized the New England Masonic Lodges, issued his warnings. He wrote three letters to Colonel William L. Stone, a top Mason, in which he exposed how Jefferson was using Masonic lodges for subversive Illuministic purposes. Those three letters are at this very time in Whittenburg Square Library in Philadelphia. In short; Jefferson, founder of the Democratic Party, was a member of the Illuminati which at least partly accounts for the condition of the party at this time and through infiltration of the Republican Party; we have exactly nothing of loyal Americanism today. THE ILLUMINATI AND THE COUNSEL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS


[edit on 19-3-2008 by tgambill]

reply to post by tgambill

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Proof?

Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.



[edit on 19-3-2008 by elevatedone]

well, chromo there you go, I provided your first installment.......link this post with the above one since its one liner.....to notify you, it makes it part of it.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

reply to post by chromatico

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[edit on 19-3-2008 by tgambill]

[edit on 19-3-2008 by tgambill]