The Jesus Delete.

Wow Marg,, I got to hand it to you, your magic 8 ball or the advice you are getting from sylivia brown, Kreskin the Crystal ball is amazing.

I guess I don't have a thing to worry about then.


Thanks so much for confirming that

Never argue with a prophet



- Con

You ask me how I know he lives, HE LIVES, WITHIN, MY HEART!

My Redeemer Lives

All of creation testify, this life within me cries, I know my redeemer lives!

If Jesus didn't exist I wouldn't have any friends, or reason to go on. Who do you want to meet when you die? I want to see Jesus.

It would have been better to have never known the way of truth, then to have known it, and to turn from the commandment they received to live a holy life.

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Luke 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Luke 22:67 Art thou the Christ? tell us. And he said unto them, If I tell you, ye will not believe:

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

John 5:46-47 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

reply to post by scientist

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Scientist, the Historical Jesus debate is a heated one. No need to say those claiming He never existed are the 'victimized minority' while those who believe He did are 'desperate.' My issue lies with the so called scholars who fabricate arguments. If they want to debate, then let's debate. But don't propagate lies. And yes, that is what many of them do when they resort to the three previously mentioned tactics.

reply to post by marg6043

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If you don't like reading about it, Marg, you have the "free-will choice" to move on. Why do you keep coming into these threads if you don't like them? All you ever do is bash them for being non-conspiratory. Prove to me there's not a conspiracy and then we'll talk! K?

reply to post by Conspiriology

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Thank you for the kind words. The statement above does bring up some additional thoughts, however.

The notion that someone who professes themselves to be a Christian (or a Muslim, or an atheist, or a Darwinist, or a wiccan... you get the idea) is synonymous with the lack of debate skills, or any skills for that matter, is the foundation of bigotry and hatred. And each group I mentioned, to some degree, has as their basis a measure of bigotry and hatred.

Now please don't take this as an insult to you; rather, your statement made for a good chance to point out this fact. In a perfect world, we would judge others based on their character and abilities, rather than on a petty label that may or may not be indicative of the true person. Unfortunately, we do not live in such a world. I attempt to improve on the situation by presenting my arguments as logically as I am capable of (and using that amazing little typo-slayer called spellcheck ) and presenting myself with the moniker 'TheRedneck". I do fit many of the stereotypes commonly associated with that name; but I also bely others. It would have been far easier for me to be taken 'seriously' had I used a different front, something like "IntelligentOne" (My apologies to anyone using that; I really just made it up), but the end result of denying the ignorance of prejudice would not have been accomplished to nearly the same degree.

So in that perfect world which I endeavor to realize, this thread would never be needed; freedom of speech and beliefs would not be coupled with stereotypes, leading to the conditions the OP has pointed out. Rather, we could be considerate and aware of the myriad of opinions and values around us, and while subscribing to our own, we would feel no need to attack the others in order to further that subscription.

We could debate them of course.

TheRedneck

I think people advocate that Jesus didn't exist to help them pick apart the Christianity concept. What better way of debating Christianity than to say the Patriarch never existed?

This also flies in the face of Islam, who reveres Jesus as a prophet sent by God. Tell Muslims in the Middle East Isa never existed and you'll likely get hurt.

So then, two religions against .. some new age conspiracy theorists and their zeitgeist movie. Umm... and the winner is, religion!

But to get more into the topic, i think some of the stories of the new testament, of the miracles and so forth, the raising of the dead, is too much for some people to believe. They think how can any man do this, if we cant either?

And most Evangelical Christians will say, Jesus was God embodied. This is false in my sect, blasphemous even, so as to say there is more than one God.

In Arian Christianity, Jesus was just a flesh and blood man, had no special super powers, and all miracles in which he performed were done so through divine providence, that is, God coming down and assisting Jesus in the moment to make the impossible, possible. But it is not literally "God coming down and assisting", but rather, "the holy spirit", which is God's divine will. If God wills it to be, and it goes against physics, it is called a miracle and thus required the holy spirit, a direct intervention from the creator, to make the otherwise impossible feat happen, you see. But Jesus himself as a man did not embody these powers, the holy spirit worked through him at times when it was needed.

This means Jesus was not the "son of God", because God cannot have off-spring. In that sense, we are all sons of God. He/she made us all. So why would Jesus be "the only begotten"? Jesus was the anointed one, which means the chosen one, the messiah .. but he was not the son as in the way we think of sons and daughters, this he was not. This belief makes me heretical, and is not shared by most Christians. But I feel it is the truth.

[edit on 3/16/2008 by runetang]

Awww, Con, you're not impessed with my debating (or non-debating) skills? I'm so hurt!

That isn't the point and this isn't a 911 whodunnit thread. As for hating your cute little imaginary friend, that would be about as productive as hating Tinkerbell, don't you agree? Now don't be so angry. Sprinkle some pixie dust on yourself and try it again in the morning.

There are other historic accounts of Jesus, if you wish to disregard Biblical text. Flavius Josephus was a first century Jewish historian who wrote volumes. In chapter three of volume 18 of “Antiquities of the Jews” he writes:




Source

reply to post by Conspiriology

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Sorry to burst your bubble here but I don't subscribe to any of he above names you mention.

Too many assumptions no enough facts you think you know me and my preferences but you are so far away from the truth that is not funny.

reply to post by Conspiriology

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So the motton now is anybody that do not believe in my god is wrong?

That sounds to me like a words of a narrow minded person and somebody that used to push religious agendas.




[edit on 16-3-2008 by marg6043]

Saying Jesus never existed is not the same as saying Jesus was not the Son of God. However, saying Jesus never existed would be the same as saying any other figure never existed before the dark ages existed (with the exception of those who have been mummified). Theres no way to prove it.

However, as mentioned in this thread, follow the money trail. Theres no money in saying Plato never existed. It wouldn't upset the world enough. You got the 3 major religions of the world, you prove Jesus never existed and you just demolished the already delicate power balance between them. There would be thousands of suicide bombers 'born' overnight.

reply to post by idle_rocker

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Read the forum TOs.



www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you have any problem and feel that this topics are the exclusive privilege of the Cristian's in this forums take it with the administration.

What exactly do you prescribe to, Marg? Maybe I've missed it, but based on your previous post above, it appears it may be some form of mysticism. Is this true? Can you explain your beliefs, as I don't think I've ever read them, except that you don't *believe* any threads belong where they are.

I am not the one that brought it up originally...you were. So maybe it's encumbent upon you, since you don't like the discussions. to take it up with the Admins. I don't have a problem with this thread myself...you do.

once i knew what i was to become
but i am becoming something i didnt expect
i dont respect the receptacle i throw my trash into
i could win through staunch gauntlet nonsense
i want to win the losers illusory fusion movement
please make me real in the realest sense pensive
take my strings and play the puppet brother
i am a sister listless resistance missive
please give me a little time to become the sun
i will be the moon sooner than you wanted
stronger than the titans clashing in fashion
mask the betrayer and slay the soothsayer
groove greater than time spent in solitary
protect the nexus as part of the prime directive
turn your inflection inward sinner
thinner and thinner

reply to post by idle_rocker

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I am not you enemy my friend I enjoy conspiracies in religion for what it is a conspiracy I feel very sorry that you feel attacked because you believes but remember this a conspiracy forum and that is the part that you seem no to understand.

Sad really.

reply to post by marg6043

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Let the MODS do the work! Sheesh.

reply to post by chromatico

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Hey you are right, sad the thread is getting lost again.

Anyway back to the topic, the way our nation capitalizes on everything and religion been such a debatable topic and very profitable seems to be at fault of how well received are any conspiracy against the Christian Jesus and the bible.

But this goes both ways for those promoting religion and those promoting other views and believes.