The Jesus Delete.

I've noticed more and more over the past couple of years that people seem to be pushing toward a "Jesus never existed" reality, this is witnessed by such videos and theoretical theisimanic natured discussions.

I'd like to know who you think is at the center?
Why is this a drive?
Who's fault is it really?




mod edit: caps in title

[edit on 3/17/2008 by kinglizard]

New theories make money. I don't think there's anything other than entrepreneurial spirit to "blame" here.

It's called reality intruding on your mythology. Nothing more. There's no conspiracy or movement other than the forward momentum toward truth.

The fact of the matter is that most of the old and new testaments are completely fabricated mythology. Modern secular historians pretty much agree on this. Most of the people who disagree are already believers and are therefore disinclined to disbelieve their own religion.

I used to be a Christian. I've been to several churches so I got a lot of experience with different doctrines and approaches. I used to attend bible studies every week. I was one of those guys who went to church on Sunday morning, Sunday evening and Wednesday evening. I went to a Christian university and studied theology and early Christian literature. On a related note, I was also a young Earth Creationist at that time.

Over time, my studies kept leading me away from the fundamentalist beliefs that I held. They just weren't standing up to the light of truth. Reality kept invading my space. I simply couldn't maintain my faith and be honest with myself at the same time, so I left the Christian faith completely.

My continued studies have done nothing to make me think I made the wrong decision. In fact, the more time goes by, the more I'm thankful that I made the right decision, the decision to stop following a myth and get on living my life in the real world.

reply to post by Incarnated

Logic dictates that someone is trying to convince us that Frosty the Snowman and Jesus are one and the same. I would very much like the Jesus figure to actually be as real as they portray him as. But at the same time, I can't help but feel it was all an act because he supposedly left just when he had proved he was immortal. It's just well........fishy.

Now people bring up aliens as the watchers and it gets even more suspicious that revelations will be it was them all along. (you will know them by their works)Were we always so dumb? I don't think so. And maybe Jesus was a reptillian who wasn't so easily manipulated?

Unfortunately we also know today by example that there are those who play many parts in deception by creating an enemy and situation. (The Incredibles) Who really wrote all of this stuff?

Originally posted by Incarnated
I've noticed more and more over the past couple of years that people seem to be pushing toward a "Jesus never existed" reality, this is witnessed by such videos and theoretical theisimanic natured discussions.

I'd like to know who you think is at the center?
Why is this a drive?
Who's fault is it really?

I don't think one person is to blame in this, I believe Jesus never existed because of all the inconsistencies and things that just don't make any sense to me. But that's not what this thread is about and doesn't matter atm.

I believe it's both sides fault because fighting constantly back and forth doesn't make situations any better...

so what if jesus never existed!

there is a higher being, higher than i ever imagined and thats good enough for me, what ever that comes with!

reply to post by Incarnated


Why? What is their drive? Sheer laziness.

If Jesus never existed, *poof* no reason to be a Christian. Christianity is therefore false. Problem solved.

But there is nothing wrong with asking questions concerning the historicity of Jesus. In fact, it's a fun debate. Not to mention, the oodles of evidence is by far in the favor of Christians.

What stinks of conspiracy is that they have to resort to making things up. Some of the favorite tactics:

1). Claiming no historical source exists outside the Bible confirm Jesus' existence when there are, in fact, dozens that do so.

2). Claiming Jesus was copied from pagan savior myths. They pull parallels out of their behinds to make a point by claiming things like other 'savior-gods' were born of a virgin, crucified, buried for three days, rose again, had 12 disciples, etc. Such con artists prey on the ignorance of Westerners regarding other religions. Few will know anything about the stories of Krishna, Buddha, Mithras, Horus, etc., and will swallow the bogus comparisons hook, line, and sinker.

3). Claiming Jesus was a sun god stolen from the stories of the zodiac and pagan astrology. These 'scholars' apparently are completely unfamiliar with the Hebrew Mazzaroth.

Again, it's nothing more than... laziness. Debunk the founder, debunk the faith.

I'm seeing some intresting statments come forth. "New Theories" make money. That's great and true, but if there wasn't a reason to "reject" the reality of Jesus then there would be no call for it therefore no demand associated with no need to supply.

So we can move onto the statement of "shear lazyness". I'm really not sure how to take that statement. Although I can see how that is somewhat a posability, I could also argue that people are "christians" out of shear lazyness. I'm not addressing the user of the term as everyone knows that person is going for the "hardest working christian" award. However the great bulk of those that would call themselves "christians" do so out of shear lazyness, many never even having read the bible once only bible thumping from what they were told in church.

Both the nonchristian and christian people that can fall under the "shear lazyness" catagory do so in my oppion because they don't take the "spiritual" lifestyle very seriously. After all upon realizing that this phyical world is only set in play to prepair YOU for the spiritual worlds after, I can only assume one would work extra hard in gainning as much here as one could get.

Islam, Science, Political Law, Fictional writing and Historical subjects are covering up the Jesus Christ debate.

In the Middle East they believe in someone called Jesus but he was not the son of God so you rule out that faith and belief. Secondly in the Middle East and North Africa you don't have much room to discuss Christ and be a follower let alone them speaking about him like a Saviour figure. You can get punished for turing to another faith let alone preach about Christ.

Science denies God so that pressure in our education brings doubt in divine existence and people are straying away from their own internal instincts of God.

Fiction writes out all these findinds of doubts and they make money and success out of disproving God and making science the winner because we can see the end results in a lab test and they make popular films to deny that reality.

History tries to deny it, that Jesus was not Christ but only a man but they do admit he existed, but today it seems the next step is to deny him all together.

So all these factors against Christ forever denying him like the high priests as well as the Romans did in his day and all the prophets who were not believed before that.

So if you think about it, everyone is pushing Christ out of the door and his believers as in the Church being his people. They are all being denied even the expression of him even calling his name.

So why are they tightening up the noose around Jesus? is he that hard to take upon his words? Like they did 2000 years ago as people today as a Globe are doing it on a large scale. Like Mary and Joseph they shut their doors when they need protection as she was about to give birth.
It seem as predicted by Jesus that Christians will be one day persecuted on a global scale because of his name, they even try banning crosses in buildings and cemetries.

Is there a conspiracy? Maybe they all want to bury Christ out of History, there must be a deeper reason for it.

Wrong the Christ, Jesus, Jesua, the son of God, and ext. never will be eradicated or erased from the bible or historical accounts, because it is the bible and the Christian church bread and butter and bases for their faith and believes.

Now if your complain is this forum I have to let you know that if you read the TOs you will see that this particular forum is not for the exclusive use of religious agendas, preaching or praying neither for teaching and bible studies, so I feel very sorry that you feel this way because as you know this is a conspiracy site.





[edit on 15-3-2008 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043


I agree that it won't be eradicated but it will be hushed up to a greater degree, but guess I am being pessimistic about it, but then again if I am to take advice then jesus did say, 'I may go away but my words never will.'
So I guess it can be watered down to a small degree or banned in some countries to even speak about Jesus as Christ as we know it.
A lot of changed have been been and they all seem to wash Christianity out of the mainstream.

I'd say multiple causes, all with different purposes, but all leading to one conclusion: Jesus must never have existed.

First are the atheists. I've debated many of them, and the single thread that runs through the debates is that the Bible is some sort of fairy tale created by a writer who was either bored or extremely imaginative. The typical tactic is to simply discount anything that remotely suggests any truth in the Bible as unreliable. I even had one debate in which the other person tried to use a quote from the DaVinci Code as fact just after declaring the entire Bible as fiction. The DaViinci Code is a fiction work as specified by the author. The apparent purpose is to relieve themselves of any responsibility for not gaining a deeper understanding of the principles involved, or to permit a lifestyle they don't feel comfortable with when the Bible is taken under consideration.

The over-believers: The people who, through some misguided ideal of others, usually their parents, were spoon-fed Christianity until they gagged on it at some point in their lives, usually when they were young. They do not see the religion as anything other than a conformist machine that attempts to brainwash others, since they feel it happened to them that way. To rid the world of Jesus, to them, is to rid the world of tyranny. These have my deepest sympathy.

The scientists: I tend to view these as arrogant, believing they and they alone, by benefit of some sort of special understanding of the physical world, have an answer for everything that happens. There is simply no room in their minds for the concepts of physical science to co-exist with the idea of a spiritual faith. Jesus, if He lived, would be something they could not explain physically; therefore Jesus must not have lived.

Power-mongers tend to desire power over others. The ability to control another human is difficult to attain when that other human has a spiritual belief. A prime example of this problem lies in the Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". If rights are endowed by a creator, no man may remove them. So there must not be a c reator, and therefore must not be His son Jesus.

And the last group I call the truth-seekers. These are those who seek a deeper understanding of spirituality, but as was mentioned by AshleyD, the search can become too cumbersome and tiring for them. They tend to take a more 'ala carte' approach to religion, selecting a few bits here and a few bites there, until they come up with something that seems to work in their experience. They don't necessarily denounce Jesus as a group, until someone points out the error of their ways, at which point Jesus, in their minds, becomes a stumbling block to their perfect little utopia.

All of these groups tend to want Christianity to disappear, because it in some way is an unscalable obstacle to their goals. And there is one sure way to make Christianity disappear: make Jesus disappear. The other way, though less sure, is to continually preach on the evils that religion in general, and Christianity in particular, have wrought upon society. With a few omitted details there and a few incorrect but repetitious opinions here, all seems to make sense that the Christians are somehow evil... and simple logic would then suggest that perhaps the founder of Christianity itself, the Christ, Jesus, was also evil.

Watch this thread if you don't believe me; you can place every denouncer of Christianity in one or sometimes two of these groups.

TheRedneck

The time lord

America is a majority Christan nation Christianity will not die because some movies or because the debates in this boards.

But you have to accept the fact that in this boards are also many people with different views, understandings and believes.

That is why you can not post in conspiracies in religion about faith and expect nobody to post nothing else but faithful related topics on their post.

Perhaps the board owners will take in consideration to open a religious forum for only related christian topics if you ask.


[edit on 15-3-2008 by marg6043]

it could be the devil himself, he made the world believe he didn't exist and now he's going to make us believe the christ didn't either, then he'll have our souls and we'll all be doomed.

probably not, but it is a proper religious conspiracy and if you can believe in jesus, why not the devil too?

Originally posted by Incarnated
I'd like to know who you think is at the center?

There is no center.

Originally posted by Incarnated
Why is this a drive?

I think you have islam to thank for that for showing the end result of religious fundamentalism. Prior to 911 most thinking people didn't see religion as a threat. In fact I think many regarded it as being irrational but harmless and something that should be preserved for anthropological reasons. Then 19 islamic nuts woke us up and we all began taking a long hard look at religion and not just islam but all of them. What we see is that there is much greater potential for harm than good in religion. It is an active threat to the survival of humanity and for that reason it must be exposed for the fraud that it is, tamed, minimized and if necessary, destroyed. Religion has been perpetrating a damnable fraud on humanity for several millennia and now the fat lady is singing.

Originally posted by Incarnated
Who's fault is it really?

There is no fault. Exposing fraud is a virtue. If you must blame someone, then look to any religious fundamentalist of any religion. And while you are blaming you can blame all those religious lemmings who silently tolerate the fanatics.

Originally posted by The time lord
Islam, Science, Political Law, Fictional writing and Historical subjects are covering up the Jesus Christ debate.

I just want to applaud your post, all anyone has to do is look at the boards here and see the entire topic where Christianity is being questioned and / or ridiculed. I never thought I would do this but I have to thank Incarnate for coming up with the thread. Not that I Agree with his motives however, we have us a spiritual warfare going on here and at the heart is souls and the most vulnerable are our young people. More then at anytime in my life has Religion come under such attack and at the center of it is Atheism and their Religion is the perversion of Science. A Science called evolution.

Invariably when ever you go to an Atheist website, you see Atheists all of them apparently born without a moral base but the one that fits in with their sexual bent and what ever their drug of choice is.

The other day I was on the sorcery thread by Bigwhammy and saw that one of the posters was their to invoke his Shakespearian diatribe his opinions of me and the thread. I also noticed on his profile, he mentions his belief that doing drugs is something he likes to do but adds a caveat that the should be done "wisely" or used "intelligently"

I think anything that we put in our bodies that we become a slave to,, is probably not a smart thing to do. As believers, we know God exists and we know it the more we try, the more we hear him, feel him and yes SEE him. I see god whenever I read one of AshleyD's posts and thank GOD she is on this forum as the one of the baddest gladiator’s soldiers for defending Christians, even those lazy ones like Incarnate.

He is well aware of my angst of his attempts at posturing a position for his own glory his own ego on threads like this. We have enough problems trying to deal with Atheists let alone someone coming in claiming to be an Angel while pontificating a (sorry got to say like I mean it) lot of crap.

Now I don't have a problem with believing in Angels and saw the other day their was another Michael the Arc Angel criticizing this one as an imposter. I got news for BOTH of them.

They are BOTH FRAUDS as neither one of them would subject themselves to testing as prescribed in Scripture and are to be judged according to their false witness. That of course is their problem but it ends up being OUR cross to bear. It just adds legitimacy to the arguments Atheists use to insult, ridicule etc. It isn't only that however, it is the ham-fisted way he treats other Christians whether they are babes in Christ or not he treats them with the same disdain while displaying a complete lack of knowledge in Hebrew, Greek, Latin much less Aramaic while expounding the tenets his authority as an incarnated Angel while confounding his audience bearing false witness and lies.

This is why any Christian who has given him the benefit of the doubt must also take serious their spiritual health in confronting false teachers and teachers claiming to be supernatural.

The Author of lies and confusion will use Religion to steal souls cause genocides just as he uses any other stimulus whether it is Science, our Ego or our pride, sex, drugs you name it, we will find a way to rationalize it and attack accusers who may convict us of sin with extreme prejudice and relentless harassment and ridicule.

Their isn't much I think I could say I have a deeper understanding of in topics where Christianity is concerned and I am quick to feel humbled by people with a better understanding but I DO have a MUCH better understanding of divine Providence and see it unfolding every day where God uses everyone, even those who claim to be Angels, for our Good.

I must say that is what I see as I read your post too.

That whenever the authors of Confusion and Lies persist.

Someone like you comes along and

Sets the record straight.

God Bless You

- Con

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[edit on 16-3-2008 by Conspiriology]

Originally posted by Lilitu
Then 19 Islamic nuts woke us up and we all began taking a long hard look at religion and not just Islam but all of them. What we see is that there is much greater potential for harm than good in religion. It is an active threat to the survival of humanity and for that reason it must be exposed for the fraud that it is, tamed, minimized and if necessary, destroyed. Religion has been perpetrating a damnable fraud on humanity for several millennia and now the fat lady is singing.

Proof? Any real solid evidence those 19 were even on the damn plane? No political reasons they would want to crash those into buildings? None?

Or was it because they hated our freedom and democracy?

Or was it simply because they hated our God?

You hate the same God you claim doesn't exist and all those who either are involved in one HUGE conspiracy to believe in something we all know doesn't exist which is so unlikely it is beyond belief. OR we actually have some meme evolved in our brains that somehow rejects factual scientific evidence. Another words Evolutions Scientific method which as Sam Harris says. "I think it is ethical to kill "certain" "people" for having "certain" beliefs”.

I see the same kind of dialogue and ignorant posts like yours were often said by social Darwinists like Hitler. Mao, poll pot, the khamir rouge and Lenin who slaughtered more people then all the atheists can accuse Christians for doing COMBINED.

Saying they didn't do it in the name of Religion won't cut it either because they had no Religion but as the U.S. Courts have argued,, and as any Atheist website you look at would suggest,,

Their Religion is to destroy

US.

The hate comes first,

The killing later

- Con



[edit on 16-3-2008 by Conspiriology]

reply to post by TheRedneck


Wow very well thought out post, and I am not one to be all that impressed with Christians in their debating skills but have seen some agnostics even come to defend the Religion and exploit motives via a keen insight to people


- Con

this thread seems to be filled with Christians, pointing fingers in all directions and administering blame and guilt. Take a moment to imagine this: Christianity is estimated at over 75% of the US right now, so it's more than all the other religions, combined.

Whenever you complain that people are being ignorant, and lazy, and blind to the truth - briefly imagine being in their shoes, where you are already the minority, and everyone else seems to be clinging to something so desperately, that it's almost hopeless that things will ever change for the better.

Originally posted by scientist
this thread seems to be filled with Christians, pointing fingers in all directions and administering blame and guilt. Take a moment to imagine this: Christianity is estimated at over 75% of the US right now, so it's more than all the other religions, combined.

Whenever you complain that people are being ignorant, and lazy, and blind to the truth - briefly imagine being in their shoes, where you are already the minority, and everyone else seems to be clinging to something so desperately, that it's almost hopeless that things will ever change for the better.

I understand what you are saying and agree on most of it, however, much of that is "splitting hairs" so to speak and if I am to assume you are a Science buff, you see the same thing goin on there too.

If not, just attend a Science Convevtion and you will be sick of of the arguing by the end of it.


- Con


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[edit on 16-3-2008 by Conspiriology]