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Original Sin

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posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 11:03 PM
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reply to post by P-a-r-a-d-o-X-2
 


That's a very interesting point of view. Thank you.

I also wonder about the Serpent - Dragon, perhaps? Lucifer/Satan is often depicted and referred to as the Dragon. Might this translate to Reptilian?

I would assume, since he was cursed to slither on his belly, that he did not do so previously, hence there would be some other method of mobility (or none? Surely he would not have been immobile?)

Every time someone answers my question, I am filled with more questions! That's what makes this site so fun!




posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 08:11 AM
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Annoyed, to answer your question -
The Biblical definition for original sin would be the choice to eat the fruit, against God's instructions. As simple as that.
Is there more context we dont' get? Sure. Why was it a fruit? I don't know, yet.

quote from Byrd:
"Interestingly, the Jews (authors of the Old Testament) don't believe in Original Sin. The concept is apparently introduced into Christianity in the writings of Paul..."

Byrd's statement is not quite accurate;
If you really look at scripture, from Genesis on, you'll see that the concept of sacrificial atonement is present from the beginning.(Edit: what it means - it is immediately apparent that things have changed for Adam and Eve, and all mankind)
Will you see the literal words 'original sin?' Nope. But what do we see Cain and ABel doing, when we they first appear? Offering sacrifice. Now why would they do that unless they had been taught..? Hmm......
I'm done with this thread, but email me with any other questions, I really dig this stuff
There's nothing so incredible as studying the Bible and learning to recognize God's plan from the beginning of time, to redeem YOU and restore you to a right relationship with him
The specific examples will blow your mind......

You too, Byrd. I welcome a discussion on Wicca anytime, just shoot me an email as soon as you've started one, or keep it between your email and mine, that's fine. I'm curious why you believe the way you do.

[edit on 20-3-2008 by wannabe]



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 08:13 AM
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email:
mudskipper3@yahoo.com



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by Annoyed
reply to post by P-a-r-a-d-o-X-2
 


That's a very interesting point of view. Thank you.

I also wonder about the Serpent - Dragon, perhaps? Lucifer/Satan is often depicted and referred to as the Dragon. Might this translate to Reptilian?

I would assume, since he was cursed to slither on his belly, that he did not do so previously, hence there would be some other method of mobility (or none? Surely he would not have been immobile?)

Every time someone answers my question, I am filled with more questions! That's what makes this site so fun!


Yes me too often had the devil down as a reptilian / lizardlike being or whatever word people fancy. But Ive yet to hear a Christian explain it as they believe it.

Its so old news there are plenty of signs of reptilian or aquaphibian serpent like beings thru'out hisssstory.

So much information I cant think straight sometimes.

That Genesis quote 3.13 -16 implies a lot for such a brief few words.

Back later,

Peace



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 05:32 PM
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Original Sin to me is a tool of control that contradicts Free Will of Choice which is a God given right. Cause in the real definition of Free Will of Choice, their would really be no sin, original or otherwise.

I believe that our bodies are containers for the soul. The soul is immortal and is in the true image of God. The body is not in the image of God and so the genetic aspects of the body has nothing to do with the soul which is also the God given spark of life too.

So if the body is not the real you, then who could our lineage of being all decendents of Adam and Eve bear on who we really are as souls? It wouldn't.

All that stuff that the bibles of the world are full of have some truth and a whole bunch of control issues. But if people wish to believe that they are sinners due to the acts of others, then go right a. and do so, because that if your Free Will right of Choice.

As for me, I am not a sinner and was not born a sinner. As for anything that I may have done in life that others would cast me out as being a sinner, they have not the right to say so, but then they can have their own opions based on whatever they choose to believe. To me, Free Will of Choice gives us the ability to make choices regarding our lives in these containers. Physical life is about choices made and the results of those choices. When you leave, that which others call sins, no longer applies.



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 06:59 PM
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You see that is the problem. We as humans seem to think that our demands, thoughts, desires and power controls what God has set forth as the "rules"......in the scriptures. The books after the Geneva or KJV are rewritten in ways that distort the word in subtle ways.



reply to post by Jonar
 



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 07:43 PM
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If Annoyed is satisfied with the answers he's received, I guess we can go off-topic....

Ok Jonar,
What's the standard for right and wrong choices? How do you know what the right ones are, or when you've made enough right choices?
The real question is, why are you skeptical of scripture?
There's always a choice - good or evil. God is good, so what he wants for you is going to be good. Choosing evil is synonymous with choosing to reject God. The gnostics believed that the soul was good, and the body was bad, just like you - but what that does is deny the work of Jesus. If you have no sin, then you do'nt deserve death:
"The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life, in Jesus Christ our Lord"
There's only one way to "choose" rightly


mudskipper3 at yahoo dot com

[edit on 20-3-2008 by wannabe]

[edit on 20-3-2008 by wannabe]



posted on Mar, 21 2008 @ 07:05 PM
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reply to post by wannabe
 


Hi.

When you say why are you sceptical of scripture.. theres the opposite view, why shouldn't we be sceptical of scripture? considering the devil is in charge of the system, and you know by the state of the world, isnt it possible that he may have really tampered with the scripture? even going so far as to making lots of it up? its a fair question, seeing as God already knew the serpent would tempt Eve etc.. God must know he may have messed with the scriptures too. If he hasnt, why hasnt he? I know it would be very befitting of the devil to bluff and make it seem nowadays like the bible was put together by him, to throw people off the track that it actually may be true... but that just twists my . to pieces.

Is God an immortal man from some other planet? and the devil a reptoid/serpent/hybrid? or is God (dare I say it) a GOOD reptoid/serpent/ hybrid whatever, and the only real 'devil' is MAN whom seeks to control others? or ok even just a demon fallen angel reptoid is the devil.

Can we look at things like its star trek or do we all still have to be caught up with words like spiritual and supernatural, paranormal and all the rest of it? .. its all the science of creation, its just that our mainstream 'science' only knows what it knows... its cold hard rational brain thinking.. and the rest they dont tell us they keep it military.

WORDS are whats messing people up, not beliefs, just translation and our concepts of what or who God and the devil is.. and isnt.



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by P-a-r-a-d-o-X-2

...why shouldn't we be sceptical of scripture?
...isnt it possible that he may have really tampered with the scripture?
...If he hasnt, why hasnt he?
Is God an immortal man from some other planet? and the devil a reptoid/serpent/hybrid?
Can we look at things like its star trek...?
WORDS are whats messing people up, not beliefs, just translation and our concepts of what or who God and the devil is.. and isnt.


Good questions, P2.
1st question - we should. even the biblical writers urge us to question all things, and test what is from God and what is a lie. (i paraphrase for lack of reference) What have you concluded? Since my faith rests on what I believe to be truth, of COURSE I research the Bible. And my conclusion is that every word of the Bible is meant to be there - inspired by a God who sits and watches from outside of time. There are amazing 'coincidences' throughout, above and beyond all the fulfilled prophecy.
That's a long subject, though, so we'll save a full discussion for another time.
2nd and 3rd Q - Is it possible? No, I don't think so. We have so many 1000s of copies, that all match up to 97% or so. Does he try? Sure. I can show you how Satan has been trying to thwart God's plan for mankind, on many levels. WHy hasn't he? God is smarter

4th Q - If that were possible, then he wouldn't be God, but a creation. anyway, If you're alluding to the concept of 'seeding' the planet with life, growing numbers of scientists will tell you that's a dead end.
5th Q - Star trek? No, I'm convinced there's more than that. Many aspects of our existence are unexplainable by scientific rationalization, and i have examples to buttress my conviction. Maybe I'm not understanding your question right...
FINAL STATEMENT -
Based on your q's, i interpret this as "beliefs are based on the wrong words." I agree with this, to the extent that mysticism and cults are pursuing a false truth. Can proper translation unify all 'beliefs?' No, b/c religions are pretty much all diametrically opposed. So - ultimately - I disagree with you. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth,and the life; no man comes to the Father but thru me" Jhn 14:6. You can't make that work with Islam or Buddhism.

Again, I can explain all of what I mean in great detail, especially your question about textual accuracy and Satan's fight against God
If you were in town, i'd offer to buy you a coffee, and chat.

I seem to have lost the option to edit my posts, so any revisions will happen in future replies



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by wannabe
 


Shame Im not in your town Id take you up on that coffee
its late and I cant think totally straight so I'l hold on for a bit before repyling. I have lots to say too I lose my order of what to say first.

I just want to leave you with this video link and you can tell me what it makes you feel and think... honestly.

Peace.

Namaste



posted on Mar, 22 2008 @ 11:05 PM
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''1st question - we should. even the biblical writers urge us to question all things, and test what is from God and what is a lie. (i paraphrase for lack of reference) What have you concluded? Since my faith rests on what I believe to be truth, of COURSE I research the Bible. And my conclusion is that every word of the Bible is meant to be there - inspired by a God who sits and watches from outside of time. There are amazing 'coincidences' throughout, above and beyond all the fulfilled prophecy. '']


Ok.. Ive concluded simply that firstly God is within, and Jesus confirms that. The devil is also within. As we all know full well theres 2 sides of our brain / mind and thoughts going on inside. Duality.. is the existence we live in. Tho its not the ultimate reality. Its confusing between soul and body is all.. and its natural.. for now.

God says he is I AM.. so to me that says OUR awareness and conciousness (cant spell it) is God. We are ME.. ME is WE.. does this look right?
it does to me.

Thats how I also view the 'living God' statement. We are all one.. everything IS connected and all is one, but we can only perceive what we are hardwired (for now) to percieve. Quantum physics.. just a word someones gave to the overall global world of atoms... backs up the fact that all is connected and we are all in fact one massive bio organism. And we all affect each other.. like a domino rally.

The namaste video just explains briefly and simply what I mean by we are GOD.. our souls are a spark of Gods... that sun in the sky is called a lot of things and science has a lot of stupid long words that make things sound boring and un 'godly'..... but that sun is also the OVERSOUL.. of all mankind. ... we all came from it.. and that sun is just one of billions of Gods SUNS... oversouls to other life forms.

Obviously WE physically arent the 'most high immortal man God' whom has his own life and being... according to the bible this God made everything.. but how can he have made everything if he is a being existing within the all? Maybe he made our universe or a few universes but he wasnt the one to make THE ALL that they exist in.. its a chicken and the egg question, how did God come about. If he is an immortal man then there we have a simple basis that can work..

But people will tell me thats not my place or I dont need to know that.. but to me this IS GOD talking in me/us, so to deny our own imagination is just denying God. As you said he is smarter, and I think he also reserves the right to change his mind.

So it depends how we define God. Thats a number one issue to get right if anyones going to get anywhere together peacefully, if we cant stop ourselves picking at others stuff and they cant stop picking at us then noone is in the right.

So from the bible point of view God is an immortal man from another planet... you say outside of time.. maybe his planet is outside of time.. maybe he is in existence outside of planets and space which is beyond where we can even imagine.

God mayhave time tho.. the bible says a day with God is 1000 years to us here... so that seems to be putting God at a certain distance from us.. but then again maybe Im not to take that literally. The thing is many of the things we aren't meant to take literally in the bible make proper sound sense if we do
Like eve having sex with a serpent thing... whats the big deal in believability? Its very possible.

When I said star trek I mean futurism.. not spiritual spookisms... as I said words are messing things up. Dont know where we can draw a line between spiritualism and advanced technology its confusing.

One day, people WILL be teleporting. Regenerating themselves in another parts of the world via CoMpUtErS.. they are playing with it now. Now if somebody beamed themself to you like startrek how would you define it if we didnt have that technology yet? would it be a spirit?


See all I see is events in the past being done by beings 'of the future'...

[edit on 22-3-2008 by P-a-r-a-d-o-X-2]



posted on Mar, 24 2008 @ 05:46 PM
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You could look at Luke 17 where it says "...the kingdom of God is within you" and conclude that it means that God is inside you. I'll have to look into that passage, because our english translation isn't great; the word there, ENTOS, can be translated "inside you" or "among you", so gimme a few days.

Hwever, Just going from waht I know, I would say the context denies that conclusion. It starts off in verse 20: "Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come....."
That, plus Jesus' remarks to his disciples after that (Olivet discourse), lead me to understand that Jesus was talking about a physical kingdom. If you're going to say that Luke 17 descibes a metaphysical kingdom, I think you've got a hard battle a. of you, making that work with references to the kingdom throughout the gospels

See, here's the thing - the Bible is one coherent message, from end to end. Nothing that is said in the beginning will be contradicted by anything later on.



posted on Mar, 24 2008 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by wannabe
 


I have to give you respect for having actually read the posts you are commenting on.
I made a comment early on, in this thread, when it seemed like a pretty straightforward guestion.
I gave up trying to follow these arguments.Good for you, making the attempt, making sense of it all.
If I understand you, I have to agree with your point.
If I do not, at least you are aplying some logic.
I have seen tons of books over the years that try to talk about finding god inside you.
I could go through one after another, and open them almost at random and find identical wording,
To me it is completly worthless and how could people waste a whole book on something that can be said in one sentence?
There is no learning of the greater knowledge of the universe around us.
Of course people will dissagree and say if you become god, all things will be known.
For me to buy a book, I want it to tell me something that I can not learn by looking inside myself.
All this philosophy of gaining godhood is not religion or science or has anything to do with the real God.
I had a friend who thought he was god and his favorite saying was, "I want, I need."
If you were god, you would say, "I create, I have,"



posted on Mar, 24 2008 @ 07:05 PM
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reply to post by wannabe
 


Hi thanks I hope you are well.

You made a good point there with this >>>

''That, plus Jesus' remarks to his disciples after that (Olivet discourse), lead me to understand that Jesus was talking about a physical kingdom. If you're going to say that Luke 17 descibes a metaphysical kingdom, I think you've got a hard battle a. of you, making that work with references to the kingdom throughout the gospels''


I understand what you mean so I'l look things up and get back to you, I'l try stick to the quotes short and sweet rather than ramble on. I do have Esword loaded with a few versions to compare and the strongs dictionary. I wont go deep into it tho.

Back soon as poss.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 01:36 PM
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star trek -

So far, the only thing that's been teleported is a subatomic particle. If you have a general knowledge of the microscopic world, you know that SPs can behave TOTALLY different from our macroscopic enviroment. We're not even sure what they are, much less how they operate
Sure, teleportation has happened - if you believe scripture, God moved people from place to place, more than once.
Otherwise? For the most part, tech can't be confused with spirits. That gets iffy when you consider the alien phenomenon in conjunction with demonic activity; there are too many similarities for those to be separate realms.

But are we the creation of more advanced beings?
Sorry Charley. that still doesn't address the fundamental creation issue, anyway



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 12:07 AM
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God is an incredible entity that created the Universe and all life. Its actually very easy. He is what the Bible describes.........no Extra terr. they are demons and hybrids that are called Nephilim.....




reply to post by P-a-r-a-d-o-X-2
 



posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 09:29 PM
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Back to the 10 commandments and the facts.

As with most Christian stuff they were STOLEN from Egypt. Have you read the Egyption book of the dead? this is dated 1800 BCE

I'l just quote a website and save me time. Hope this is allowed.
source

"Some historians....have argued that the Ten Commandments originated from ancient Egyptian religion, and postulate that the Biblical Jews borrowed the concept after their Exodus from Egypt. Chapter 125 of the [Egyptian] Book of the Dead (a.k.a. the Papyrus of Ani) includes a list of things to which a man must swear in order to enter the afterlife. These sworn statements bear a remarkable resemblance to the Ten Commandments in their nature and their phrasing.....The Book of the Dead has additional requirements, and, of course, doesn't require worship of Yahweh."

The Book of the Dead was written circa 1800 BCE. The Schofield Reference Bible estimates that the Hebrew Exodus from Egypt and the provision of the Ten Commandments on Mount Sinai occurred in 1491 BCE., some three centuries later. Thus, many religious liberals, historians, and secularists have concluded that the Hebrew Scripture's Ten Commandments were based on this earlier document, rather than vice-versa.



The ancient Egyptian religion taught that person had to undergo trials after death as they proceeded towards the underworld. One major test was that the weight of their heart was compared to that of a feather.
--snip--
A second trial was that the deceased would have to recite a negative confession "when [she or] he descends to the hall of the Two Truths." In the statement, he or she swore that they had not engaged in specific behaviors while alive. According to Egyptologist Ahmed Osman, one translation of the statement reads:

"Hail to thee, great God, Lord of the Two Truths. I have come unto thee, my Lord, that thou mayest bring me to see thy beauty. I know thee, I know thy name, I know the names of the 42 Gods who are with thee in this broad hall of the Two Truths . . . Behold, I am come unto thee. I have brought thee truth; I have done away with sin for thee. I have not sinned against anyone. I have not mistreated people. I have not done evil instead of righteousness . . .
I have not reviled the God.
I have not laid violent hands on an orphan.
I have not done what the God abominates . . .
I have not killed; I have not turned anyone over to a killer.
I have not caused anyone's suffering . . .
I have not copulated (illicitly); I have not been unchaste.
I have not increased nor diminished the measure, I have not diminished the palm; I have not encroached upon the fields.
I have not added to the balance weights; I have not tempered with the plumb bob of the balance.
I have not taken milk from a child's mouth; I have not driven small cattle from their herbage...
I have not stopped (the flow of) water in its seasons; I have not built a dam against flowing water.
I have not quenched a fire in its time . . .
I have not kept cattle away from the God's property.
I have not blocked the God at his processions. 5



A comparison of the Book of the Dead text with the version of the Ten Commandments found in Exodus 20:2-17 is striking. Both consist of a series of negative statements.

Comparing another translation of the Book with the King James Version of Exodus:

bullet Book of the Dead:

"I have done away sin for thee and not acted fraudulently or deceitfully. I have not belittled God. I have not inflicted pain or caused another to weep. I have not murdered or given such an order. I have not used false balances or scales. I have not purloined (held back) the offerings to the gods. I have not stolen. I have not uttered lies or curses."

bullet Exodus 20:7-16:

"Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain....Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery...Thou shalt not bear false witness against they neighbor..."



posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 10:14 PM
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reply to post by tgambill
 


Can you tell me what was God standing on when he created the universe and the heavens? he was just outside of all this time and space stuff I guess, but in WHERE exactly? where did the space that god exists in come from and what is that in? how did god come into being? if he came into being.. then STUFF WAS ALREADY THERE that he DIDNT create.

I can totally agree that some far out scientific immortalised astronaut has created a race of people on some planet. namely earth..... even expanded his skills and spawned a whole damn universe and made it holographic
why not push the boat out! but the rest of the bible plot is all unstable... all the bible really has at its core message is IMMORTALITY OF THE FLESH..

And I happen to wonder if thats wise or stupid.. the Egyptions didnt believe in physical immortality they believed in after life in their spiritual bodies... original form... they didnt 'worship' statues they used them as symbolical power structures which 'ankh'ored' their way of life ... their BELIEFS were SET hard in facts, which you lot probably mock and condemn because of some little book written by some white RACIST westerner... its INSANE... Christianity is well out of tune with the truth of its Egyption context but its still based around the SUN.. you go into church and look up at the roof of saint pauls and you see a big sun and Jesus is your SON but you ignore THE sun burning in space keeping you alive and giving us LIGHT EVERY DAY, its an insult to ..what you call 'gods'.. handywork.

And have you seen the new cross the churches started using? nice circle they put on them now.. an astrological symbol, a PAGAN symbol apparently..

Whats wrong with pagan? for god so LOVED the world so much he came and died on a cross himself'..

Stop trying the violin sob stories about him sending his only begotten son, as if it pains him in his heart, you already say that pain and suffering and death dont mean anything to god and he deals out lots of it, so why does it matter to people that he died on a cross? thats nothing compared to what some people went thru... would you rather be put on a cross or burned in an oven with your children and family?

CruciFICTION was part of his plan.. so youd think he would stop WHINING.. now look at Judas Iscariot.. his name is like a swear word but if it wasnt for him Jesus wouldnt have achieved his mission and died on the cross now would he, so Judas was part of the plan and even he killed himself (apparently) cause he couldnt believe what he had to do.

---snip---

Im tired... lol

[edit on 5-4-2008 by P-a-r-a-d-o-X-2]



posted on Apr, 5 2008 @ 10:56 PM
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"Can you tell me what was God standing on when he created the universe and the heavens?"

*****We tend to think as humans, or beings with four dimensions. We only a concept of length, width, height and time. The supernatural entities [supernatural from out point of view], represent the rest of this universe. No human has the capacity to fully understand the concept of multi-dimensions.

"he was just outside of all this time and space stuff I guess, but in WHERE exactly? "

****If goldfish could carry on conversations, you could imagine how they could discuss our existence and how we can exist without water.

www.returntogod.com...
www.evanwiggs.com...

"where did the space that god exists in come from and what is that in? how did god come into being? if he came into being.. then STUFF WAS ALREADY THERE that he DIDNT create."

******These are questions that I ponder constantly. At the present this is not really a concern and no reason not to believe in Jesus Christ and God.

"I can totally agree that some far out scientific immortalised astronaut has created a race of people on some planet. namely earth..... even expanded his skills and spawned a whole damn universe and made it holographic why not push the boat out! but the rest of the bible plot is all unstable... all the bible really has at its core message is IMMORTALITY OF THE FLESH.. "

******The Bible is far from being unstable. It is the only book we can fully depend upon to give us truth. It tells us about the past, present and future. It also is a looking glass into the extra-dimensions.

"And I happen to wonder if thats wise or stupid.. the Egyptions didnt believe in physical immortality they believed in after life in their spiritual bodies... original form... they didnt 'worship' statues they used them as symbolical power structures which 'ankh'ored' their way of life ...

*****No astronauts or space ETs'. There is a God and Satan with millions of demons that are constantly in battle for our souls. He knows his end is near and wants to take as many souls with him. Through the Illuminati in the US and the Illuminati in Britain, and Germany, China, all our world wars were caused for the "blue light sale" on souls.

"And have you seen the new cross the churches started using? nice circle they put on them now.. an astrological symbol, a PAGAN symbol apparently..Whats wrong with pagan? for god so LOVED the world so much he came and died on a cross himself'.."

*****Yes, he died but to be saved as a condition our part is to believe in him, repent of our sins, and not continue this lifestyle. The cross you speak of, is occult/Satanic. He did die a human death to show is love and dedication to us.

"Stop trying the violin sob stories about him sending his only begotten son, as if it pains him in his heart, you already say that pain and suffering and death dont mean anything to god and he deals out lots of it, so why does it matter to people that he died on a cross? thats nothing compared to what some people went thru... would you rather be put on a cross or burned in an oven with your children and family?"

******No sob story, its the truth that he sent his only begotten son that we would not perish. You do sound angry but its not God, its the people that can't contain themselves and sin that makes him answer.

"CruciFICTION was part of his plan.. so youd think he would stop WHINING.. now look at Judas Iscariot.. his name is like a swear word but if it wasnt for him Jesus wouldnt have achieved his mission and died on the cross now would he, so Judas was part of the plan and even he killed himself (apparently) cause he couldnt believe what he had to do."

*****all this has a purpose for the story and our salvation. Its an individual's responsibility to find that truth.








reply to post by P-a-r-a-d-o-X-2
 



posted on Apr, 6 2008 @ 04:28 AM
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Originally posted by Jonar
Original Sin to me is a tool of control that contradicts Free Will of Choice which is a God given right. Cause in the real definition of Free Will of Choice, their would really be no sin, original or otherwise.


you have free will to decide whether or not you will stick your hand in a flame, doesn't mean there won't be consquenses.



I believe that our bodies are containers for the soul. The soul is immortal and is in the true image of God. The body is not in the image of God and so the genetic aspects of the body has nothing to do with the soul which is also the God given spark of life too.


not what genesis says, for dust you were and to dust you return.



So if the body is not the real you, then who could our lineage of being all decendents of Adam and Eve bear on who we really are as souls? It wouldn't.


exactly. the idea of an immortal soul tethered to a phyisical body is not supported by the bible, if it was it would be in conflict with every other teaching in the bible



All that stuff that the bibles of the world are full of have some truth and a whole bunch of control issues. But if people wish to believe that they are sinners due to the acts of others, then go right a. and do so, because that if your Free Will right of Choice.

As for me, I am not a sinner and was not born a sinner. As for anything that I may have done in life that others would cast me out as being a sinner, they have not the right to say so, but then they can have their own opions based on whatever they choose to believe. To me, Free Will of Choice gives us the ability to make choices regarding our lives in these containers. Physical life is about choices made and the results of those choices. When you leave, that which others call sins, no longer applies.


when you leave? you mean die? doesn't the wage sin pays death?



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