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Originally posted by Annoyed
reply to post by Byrd
I understand what you are saying. I think what I want to know is whether or not sex has anything to do with the Original Sin, and if so, how? I had always considered Original Sin to be more about disobeyance, until I heard the discussion on this TV show.
Originally posted by Annoyed
Here's a thought:
It was the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. When using the entire name, does it imply that acquiring the knowledge of good and evil was what is referred to as the Original Sin?
Also, Eve was told her punishment would be to give birth in pain, correct? That would pretty much imply that either she did not give birth prior to that decree, or that such had been painfree (I can't imagine!).
Originally posted by VenusOnTheHalfShell
Original sin, in my humble enlightenment, is a man made attempt of rationalizing and understanding what took place in the garden of eden; why adam and eve were forced out by their creator for doing what they were instructed not to do: eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. When this "sin" took place god is quoted as saying, "indeed, man has become like one of US, knowing good and evil". An interesting comment, don't you think?
Originally posted by Sparky63
Regarding whether or not Mary had original sin:
“ . . . the Immaculate Conception is not taught explicitly in Scripture . . . The earliest Church Fathers regarded Mary as holy but not as absolutely sinless. . . . It is impossible to give a precise date when the belief was held as a matter of faith, but by the 8th or 9th century it seems to have been generally admitted. . . . ‘which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin..........
.............This belief was confirmed by Vatican II (1962-1965)..............
.........However, confirming that All men are sinners.........
Does that include Mary?...............
Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by idle_rocker
You need to denied ignorance and stop the none sense it seems that you seems to forget the TOs over and over again and want to stay off topic.
Again denied ignorance.
The topic is orinial sin no your opinion of marg.
HUMAN IMMORTALITY AND THE FALL
1. Man's physical sensitivity. As a physical being, man was created with a sensitive nervous system.2 The sensitivity it affords is an enablement for physical life. For example, the human ear has otoliths for sensing physical balance in the presence of gravity. The skin has touch receptors for all manner of physical needs, including avoidance of physical injury. Thus the needs associated with living in a physical environment demand a physical body with nervous sensitivity.
Man and animals are constructed with other systems for survival. The blood's clotting factor and tissue repair mechanisms contribute to recovery from physical injury. The immune system fights bacterial and viral attack. The existence of all these bodily protection and repair systems points to a design for life in a natural world potentially dangerous and harmful in the physical sense.
2. Sensitivity to pain and suffering. Thus a susceptibility to a certain measure of pain and suffering is necessary to physical existence as a living being. Some such susceptibility is integral to the notion of man's mandate for dominion over the earth. Dominion involves struggle and with it an exposure to pain.3
3. Pain increased since the fall. Pain and suffering are of course greatly increased since the fall because man lost spiritual authority over the creation and now fights against nature and works in it less effectively. Eve was promised an increase of pain in childbirth (Gen 3:16), presumably via either increased fecundity or more difficult labor. Also much pain and suffering are due to evil and persecution directly. God in his manifold wisdom nevertheless uses pain and suffering to bring us to Christ and to help us grow.
4. Death physical and spiritual. Historical Christianity has always held that man dies because of sin. Based on Genesis 3, the death of man is seen as the direct effect of the fall.4 The technical nature of death, however, has been variously explained. The fact that Adam and Eve persisted biologically after sinning, while having been warned that "in the day that you (sin) you will die" (Gen 2:17), leads most interpreters to conclude that when they sinned they died spiritually-they died in the sense of spiritual separation from God.5 Physical death came later as a consequence. At the death of the body, the soul went to either heaven or hell.
5. The soul and immortality. The soul's persistence after bodily death suggests that the soul is immortal inherently.6 J. R. Williams argues that the "soul ... is grounded in and lives out of the spirit,117 which by being God's breath is immortal, and hence the human soul "may be said to be immortal."8 "At the death of the body the spirit is 'given up' to God," according to Eccl 12:7; Luke 23:46.9Correspondingly, man in the beginning might have been wholly immortal and then lost his bodily immortality only because of sin. This is the view of Bush: "When the first pair violated the divine command, they immediately became mortal, subject to infirmity and death."10 Also, according to Shedd "the body of Adam was not mortal by creation…. In the original plan provision was made for the immortality of the body."11 But Shedd sees this immortality as peculiar in being vulnerable to loss: "Prior to the fall the human body was not liable to death from internal causes, but only from external. It had no latent diseases, and no seeds of death in it.... It could, however, be put to death. If it were deprived of food, or air, it would die.... This original immortality of the body ... was mutable and relative only. It might be lost." 12 Adam's immortality before the fall was therefore probationary.
The view that Adam's immortality was contingent may be developed further. The whole of Scripture teaches that man's existence is never autonomous but is always dependent on providential support from God. Hodge says that "the idea of the absolute dependence of all things on God pervades the Scripture."13 Genesis 3:22, furthermore, declares that Adam and Eve had to be banished from the Garden of Eden. This was necessary to deny them access to the tree of life, which itself was necessary for eternal life. Taken first in the literal sense, the verse implies that eating a physical fruit was necessary for eternal life, and hence Adam and Eve were not immortal inherently.
Augustine believed that "Adam's body (was) a natural and therefore mortal body." 14 Further, he said that "Adam's body (was) ... mortal because be was able to die, immortal because he was able not to die.... This immortality was given to him from the tree of life, not from his nature. When he sinned, he was separated from this tree.... He was mortal, therefore, by the constitution of his natural body, and he was immortal by the gift of his Creator."15 In agreement, Litton declares that "he (Adam) was capable of death, but not subject to it.... Inherent immortality belongs only to the Creator."16 Chafer says similarly that "the original or unfallen body was capable of death. Death was not then inevitable, though it was possible."17
6. The tree of life and immortality. The usual view is that eating from the tree of life would have maintained Adam's immortality or conferred it permanently. MacDonald disagreed, saying that the tree was merely a sign of the divine promise of life.18 His disagreement was based partly on the prima facie inherent properties of trees (implying their limitations as mere physical objects) and partly on the frequency of the tree-of-life motif in extra-Biblical literature.19
Note that the tree of life is construed as more than, or other than, physical in Prov 3:18, which says of wisdom: "She is a tree of life to those who embrace her; those who lay hold of her will be blessed." Proverbs 11:30; 13:12present the tree of life similarly. In Ezek 31:2-9 trees are symbols of kingship and exalted majesty. Verses 8 and 9 specifically mention the preeminence of one tree - namely, Assyria (cf. v. 3) - over all the trees in the garden of God.
Taken more broadly the tree of life had a spiritual character, the life-giving power of the Holy Spirit. The tree of life "in the paradise of God" appears in Rev 2:7, offered by Christ to those who overcome in his name. It also appears in 22:2, located on each side of the great "river of the water of life".