reply to post by CreeWolf

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Cree, wow. I don't think you see how unimportant this is. Dem or Rep, they are all corporately driven. And we can argue all night about who is most morally reprehensible, but in the end, the bankers who own the corporations who profit most, are the ones calling the shots.

And so, though I am sorry to be so blunt, I also respectfully must make this point.

reply to post by Amaterasu

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I understand your point very well, but I was trying to stay on topic. I know how biased the media is; I know that things are screwed up when your average American can't run for President realistically any more unless they have millions of millions of dollars; I understand these jackasses are running our country into the ground; I understand the "good-ole-boy/in the pocket of lobbyists-mentality" of Washington. The point I have is that Bush is closer to a patriot than Bill Clinton ever could have been. People seem to have forgotten or don't seem to even know how crappy Clinton treated our military. At least Bush tries to support the troops. Clinton would just assume had spit on them.

MrsEsterhouse said
My response is "so what!?" Is it a sin to try to recruit our strongest and abled-bodied into our military? Perhaps it would be better to draft them in the future? My son wants to enlist out of high school and I support that (I'll probably try to discourage him if another Clinton is elected though). No matter how much others would have you believe otherwise, having a strong voluntary service military is a GOOD THING! Generally, they form more cohesive units and comradery, perform better, and are less likely to compromise each other or their service to their country. Many people still feel that way although you don't see much of that in this forum ((PS--I am NOT knocking ATS for that because I love this forum!))


George H. W. Bush's ride in WW2......

Where was Clinton?


[edit on 16-3-2008 by CreeWolf]

[edit on 16-3-2008 by CreeWolf]

[edit on 16-3-2008 by CreeWolf]

[edit on 16-3-2008 by CreeWolf]

Puh-lease.

Romance is obviously an inappropriate word in this context

Nice choice of definitions by the way I think I will use your dictionary the next time I write a post!..

Now if I can just get into a 'romantic' mood, I will finish writting an essay on child pornography.

Seriously though, that was a horrible word to use. As was describing killing people as a "fantastic experience". You can defend Our country, and at the same time, not find killing people romantic.. Or is that the mentality of all our troops?

Nor Clinton or Bush has my vote or loyalty, but what you're implying is absurd. Are you suggesting Clinton cheating on his wife is the stupid thing he did and Bush sending Our Nation to war with another country on false pretenses is the stupid thing he said

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

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No, but nice slant. I'm implying that the stupid thing Clinton DID was sending our military to bomb civilians (and into harm's way) in Serbia to distract attention from the cigar play (tell me, why did we go into the Balkans?). The stupid thing Bush SAID is the whole subject line of the OP. Its pretty common knowledge that the Bush's (especially W.) aren't the most eloquent of speakers.

Edit: Sending our nation to war on false pretenses is another thread entirely. When it all comes out, you'll probably learn that what Clinton did to get us to the Balkans was more absurd than what Bush(s) did to get us to the Middle East. We've got more business there than we had in the Balkans. In case you haven't heard, there are some Muslims who don't like us and want to kill all infidels

[edit on 16-3-2008 by CreeWolf]

Strangely enough, there are people who do go to war because of the thrill, the adventure and, yes, "the romance" of war. I would have thought that such reasoning was the stuff of which novels are comprised. Yet, I have met those who would, indeed, go to war for such reasoning.

I am dumbfounded to think that anyone would go to war for such unrealistic emotions. While there might be a "thrill" and "adventure" in war, the reality armed conflict is that people die! Men, women and children are casualties of misguided sentiment?

[edit on 3/16/2008 by benevolent tyrant]

Sorry Creewolf I read most of what you said out of context. Although I think you are undermining the severity of the 'stupid' things Bush has done by using the word 'says' instead of 'did'. Still, my apologies for slanting off topic.

Just trying to lure a few more kids to die for his money

I was trying to think of leaders who wanted to lead for clearly the right reasons, and the last one I could remember was Lech Walensa from Poland. And he did a terrible job of it.

But at least he didn't want "the romance of war".

In my opinion, George W. Bush is simply expressing his desire to be surrounded by the low vibration of a battlefield. He would genuinely enjoy witnessing the suffering of the soldiers - on both sides.

well by golly!! give that man a set of desert camos and let him trade places with one of those poor saps over there that have had his stay extended!! we all know we shouldn't let the holy king be denied any of his desires!!

just another clear indication that these guys have no clue about what is happening in the world of reality!! my father told me a few stories about WW2...for some reason, he didn't seem to think it was all that romatic...stupid, insane, horrific would be better adjectives.

heck let's send him over to iraq and let him have a first hand experience!! and well, to even make it more realistic, we can all stand outside the plane when he (if he) comes back and throw eggs at him and call him a baby killer! then we can take him to one of the vet hospitals for all that great medical care and tell him we found someone to replace him in his job because he took too darned long to get back here...but we do have a job opening in complaint department answering the phones that pays $6.00 an hour he's welcomed to! then well. the va can decide that he's suffering from pts and we can take his guns away from him!!! (let's send chaney also, it will give us a good reason to take his guns....the guy's dangerous with a gun!!)...
the romance of war????.....in tv land maybe!!

I hate to do this but i think it must be said that some the cruelest most inhuman people in human history were also very brave in combat and did not shirk from risking their lives for at least their own perceived interest . To suggest that dodging the draft automatically makes one a coward is obviously false as i wouldn't risk my neck for other people's profit either! In fact how many of you would leave a life of luxury when your father and friends could advise you that your country is under no real threat and that the whole idea was in fact to turn a profit which is hard to enjoy when your dead?

Lets not presume that one can readily identify bravery or the lack thereof by looking at service records ( plenty of cowards in any armed force) or for that matter intelligence or some such nonsense.

People who avoid fighting other peoples wars are no more cowards than those who fight other peoples wars for a nice paycheck are brave; human interaction just isn't that simplistic.

Stellar

But since Bush was not elected ( and less than 1/4 of eligible Americans supposedly voted for him before he was handed the post by a unelected body of old timers his dad helped out) maybe we do not have to condemn either Americans or democracy to hell?



Without his family and wealth he would have been a different person and it's entirely futile to speculate about who or what he might have been. Even WITH all that wealth and connections he could have been a very different person as wealth and power does not have to breed such contempt for humanity in general.



So stupid in fact that he become the president of the United States of America. Maybe we should all aspire to that type of stupidity then? What we should stop doing is calling these people stupid for doing things we BELIEVE to be stupid somehow missing out on the fact that they are ripping us off better than any group before them. If you want to call such brutal effectiveness 'stupid' that's your choice but it hasn't and probably wont stop them from taking what ever you have left.



As if he really makes that kind of decisions. You don't have to be either stupid or really intelligent to serve as a puppet and know your place in the grand scheme of things.

Stellar

reply to post by GradyPhilpott

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I even saw him being rescued on film and was with smile on his face rather relaxed considering he was through trauma of shooting and loosing a friend.
All that and more is so strange and so well documented that it stinks on miles away.
Everything can be organized and staged just like bush Jr. pilot "carrier" and all past information that could and would compromised them.
His granddad was a Nazi and was supplying Nazi Germany war machine with almost 40% of heavy metal for guns and aeroplane industry to prolong the war.
Do you think that thing was not orchestrated by his men and so carefully recorded for us to support their patriotic and noble side?
Every shred of evidence can be staged and written down the way they want.
So sad People fall for patriotic BS so easy and forget who whole bush family is and what they represent and for what.
Your Granddads and Fathers have died in a WWII, from German guns, U boats and all weapons suppled and built by your metal supplied PERSONALLY by bush and Rockefeller's and few others who made trillions of $.
Hope they all die from a horrific, painful and long disease.

[edit on 16-3-2008 by Apolon]

First, he did his little flying stunt, now this. Is there any level of decency in this man at all. Any man who is a man knows they would never want this coward watching their back during military or street action. I'm listening to more and more military men voice their lack of respect for Bush and his agenda. I know from personal experience the crap thats going on in Iraq. My brother in-law is in the 101st, this is his third tour in Iraq. We have to send him care packages every other month because he can't get his basic amenities. He was to get out in July 07, but they held him up even after two tours of 15 months. He gets out now Dec 08, and all he talks about is how it sucks and wants out.

We KNOW what he would do if he were younger..........He's already shown us that!!! ( Is this a sign that his memory is going.....or he thinks our's has...)

He would have to be a bit more creative this time, however since the National Guard gets to be in the real war this time.......

It's mind control, let the cult leader guide your soul. hehe that is from an ignant rap song too

Well, at least half of him was in his mother's ovaries (his father, likely, hadn't produced the other half yet).

You do realize that Clinton was born on 08/19/1946, and that WWII ended in 1945... don't you?

Well, frankly, based on all the actions of the past number of administrations, none are patriotic. I find the idea that one scumbag being more "patriotic" than another scumbag almost humorous - if it wasn't so wretchedly disheartening.

Bush HAS to "support our troops" lest he have no cannon fodder. And his "support" comes in romanticizing war, being complicit in attacking us, throwing our troops into the flames to protect oil investments and create corporate contracts, lying about why we had to go to war in the first place.

I respectfully disagree with giving him any "patriotic" status. As for Bill, I wouldn't call him a patriot any more than Bush.