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Cop's 8742 child porn mistakes

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posted on Mar, 19 2008 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by LockwithnoKey
 


hmmm, i guess you were right on with the word ignorant.... I am uneducated for the most part so I wouldn't know...... I am still trying to think out for myself if it is an unnatural impulse or not........hmmmmm.... I can not debate further and concede for now (untill 50 plus years from now if I happen to get any smarter by than) ......ack...dejavu...I hope it wasn't in this same thread....




posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 01:30 AM
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Originally posted by WishI
reply to post by LockwithnoKey
 


hmmm, i guess you were right on with the word ignorant.... I am uneducated for the most part so I wouldn't know...... I am still trying to think out for myself if it is an unnatural impulse or not........hmmmmm.... I can not debate further and concede for now (untill 50 plus years from now if I happen to get any smarter by than) ......ack...dejavu...I hope it wasn't in this same thread....


First: I am not a pedophile, I'm just being objective.

It's probably unnatural to lust for young children who can not yet get pregnant or have an erection/produce sperm. Humans are the only animals on Earth who do not reporduce as soon as they are physically capable.

According to wikipedia, the youngest aged birth mother was 5 years old.
en.wikipedia.org...

These young children must be impregnated by older males who can produce sperm, which is normal for every animal on Earth - except for humans.

Everything else is just a social stigma from an adult perspective. The OP said the cop who was busted at 8000 child porn pictures ages between 10 and 18. Every one of those "children" are capable of getting pregnent. 16,17 and 18 year olds are hardly children for the purposes of practical pregnancy or nubile quality. Far from hiding from the light of reality, it should be realized that many 12 year olds engage in sexual acts by their own choice.

I commented on another thread that it is hard to tell the difference between 14 year old and 24 year old Japanese women. Here is a good example: (this is by no means child porn, but if you have some deep seating pedo within you, you probably shouldn't view it :lol
it does show a fully developed 14 year old in beach attire (from a Japanese magazine). Let it be known that it is perfectly legal for 14 year old girls in the US to wear G-strings and perfectly legal to take pictures. I'm linking to it because ATS might find it questionable. If this is ATS illegal, please edit this thread and remove it, but bear in mind it is a good example..

japundit.com...

And age aside,



How old do you think this model is? (if you know, shut up!
)



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by Mr. Ree

It's probably unnatural to lust for young children who can not yet get pregnant or have an erection/produce sperm.


From a biological perspective that makes sense.


Humans are the only animals on Earth who do not reporduce as soon as they are physically capable.


So you're saying all mammals get pregnant as soon as they are biologically ready to? I am asking because I don't know.


According to wikipedia, the youngest aged birth mother was 5 years old.


Yes, that is accurate. What is your point there?


These young children must be impregnated by older males who can produce sperm, which is normal for every animal on Earth - except for humans.


Just because you can site an instance where a five year old girl got pregnant doesn't make it normal. In fact, even biologically, five years of age is not normal. Girls I believe are not usually 'able' until 10-13. Some girls develope very early, but that is considered an abnormality.

But what were you getting at exactly?


Everything else is just a social stigma from an adult perspective.


Of course. But our ability to seperate our lifestyle choices from biology is argueably one of the primary reasons we consider 'human' to be above the animal kingdom. For better or worse.


The OP said the cop who was busted at 8000 child porn pictures ages between 10 and 18. Every one of those "children" are capable of getting pregnent.


Interesting use of quotations. Are you sugesting a ten year old is not a child?

Sounds like you're alluding if a ten year old is physically able to get pregnant then it is not morally wrong to impregant her. Is that was you're saying? Again, just trying to understand, and not trying to judge.


16,17 and 18 year olds are hardly children for the purposes of practical pregnancy or nubile quality. Far from hiding from the light of reality, it should be realized that many 12 year olds engage in sexual acts by their own choice.


The age is indeed a social stigma. It is obviously a social construct. So then what's the ideal age according to your thoughts?

Sounds like you're alluding 12 years old is 'okay'. Is that so? And if so, are you saying it's okay if an adult has sex with the 12 year old or just if it's another preteen?

Look, the number is arbrituary. Do I think it's morally wrong if an adult has sex with a girl under 18? Depends. There is many factors I would consider. I myself dated a 15 year old when I was 18, granted she was soon to be 16. We were both very much in love, and had been for a year or so. Still her parents were considering reporting me to the authorities.

The thing is, as 'make-believe' as the social norm of '18' is, there are good reasons for it. Biology isn't the only factor here! We are sentient mammals with highly vulnerable emotions. The emotional ramifications of having sex with a child/teen, regardless of being physically capable, is potentially devistating. And it usually is!

p.s I am not a Mod, but I am pretty sure linking to a 14 year old in skimpy undies is against the ToC.

[edit on 023131p://20u43 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 02:45 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

So you're saying all mammals get pregnant as soon as they are biologically ready to? I am asking because I don't know.


Well, they don't get pregnant out of necessity, but they do become impregnated out of oppertunity, and the oppertunity is usually always around.



Yes, that is accurate. What is your point there?


Only that (at least some) 5 year old humans are capable of getting pregnant.



Just because you can site an instance where a five year old girl got pregnant doesn't make it normal. In fact, even biologically, five years of age is not normal. Girls I believe are not usually 'able' until 10-13. Some girls develope very early, but that is considered an abnormality.

But what were you getting at exactly?


I'm not saying it's normal in our society, as it is obviously not. I'm only showing that it certainly is possible. Beyond that, I contend nothing.



Interesting use of quotations. Are you sugesting a ten year old is not a child?

Sounds like you're alluding if a ten year old is physically able to get pregnant then it is not morally wrong to impregant her. Is that was you're saying? Again, just trying to understand, and not trying to judge.


I said "children" because the story includes pictures of 18 year olds, and to a development extent, perhaps 17 and maybe 16 year olds. Even younger for specific cases. Hardly biological "children". Perhaps more "children" in the mental sense. This may be more due to upbringing within a particular society rather than some absolute sense of "maturity."



The age is indeed a social stigma. It is obviously a social construct. So then what's the ideal age according to your thoughts?

Sounds like you're alluding 12 years old is 'okay'. Is that so? And if so, are you saying it's okay if an adult has sex with the 12 year old or just if it's another preteen?


The age varies from country to country. If I remember correctly, when I first moved to Japan, the age of consent was a non issue (or maybe it was 12, I don't remember). The age of consent there is now 13, which may give you a bit more insight into the picture of the 14 year old girl I posted. "Child porn" (however Japanese define it) is still illegal there, and considered exploitation, which is why that picture is seemingly non-provocative.



The thing is, as 'make-believe' as the social norm of '18' is, there are good reasons for it. Biology isn't the only factor here! We are sentient mammals with highly vulnerable emotions. The emotional ramifications of having sex with a child/teen, regardless of being physically capable, is potentially devistating. And it usually is!


I agree with that; however, the "social norm" is only '18' in certain societies. Many countries have a lower age. Perhaps the problem of emotional ramifications stems from the educational and family system rather than the age. Perhaps we treat our children as children for far too long.



p.s I am not a Mod, but I am pretty sure linking to a 14 year old in skimpy undies is against the ToC.


Well, it is beach attire and not undies. If you see a developed 14 year old at the beach wearing a G-string, and you look, not knowing that she is 14, does that make you a pedo?

BTW, you never commented on the picture! Fearful of the ramifications?



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 03:22 AM
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Mr. ree,

Now that's a much better post my friend. And very well articulated
It reminds me of me, cuz I writes goood too


Okay so I agree with the overall idea you are getting at. I think we can both agree the age of 18 is arbrituary and culturally specific.

Now one of your points, I think?, was that the emotional ramifications of "underage sex" was also culturally specific, as is shown by the fact that the age is much younger in many other countries. You're saying perhaps it has more to do with the educational system and the way said society views it in general.

The logic in that is sound to me. But, ultimately what does that mean to the US who views it as 18 (tho I heard it's 16 in some US states?)?

Let's say the emotional aspect of "underage sex" is largely due to the USA's educational system and societal pressures, as you suggest, but does that ultimately change anything?

It doesn't. Unless we change the social norms at the root of it, the emotional ramifications stay the same, regardless of how other countries conduct themselves. Because of how we view it in those specific instances.

We would have to change our nations overall perception on the age of consent, and our view on maturity. Therefore, it is usally wrong to have sex with an underage person, if not only because the people in question are affected by their socially determined morality! Regardless of why it is so, they are still affected by the how of it. We think they will get emotionally damaged by having underage sex, and you know what?, they usually are. They are emotionally immature at a younger age in the US. Due to education? Due to society at large? Whateva the reason, they still is.

Again, in my opinion it depends on many factors. I wouldn't make the blanket claim that an 18 year old can't have sex with someone under 18.

As for the 14 year old in the swim suit. She looks good
But I fancy this one more:




Her lovelyness, Jessica Biel

[edit on 033131p://20u35 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 06:50 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
The logic in that is sound to me. But, ultimately what does that mean to the US who views it as 18 (tho I heard it's 16 in some US states?)?


It seems to be 16 in most states, actually. In the district of Washington D.C for example, a "child" is only someone who has not yet attained the age of 16. It appears that 16 is the age of consent, as I couldn't find anything that made it a crime to have consentual sex with a 16 year old. From what I have gathered, the consenting age is only 18 in about 8 states. That's not counting the states where the age of consent is 18, but also allow for parental consent, which lowers it to 16.

This site lists sex crime laws by state, from which you can extrapolate the age of consent:
www.moraloutrage.net...

This site (www.avert.org...) lists international age of consent laws. It's probably not completely accurate, but it should give a good comparison.



Let's say the emotional aspect of "underage sex" is largely due to the USA's educational system and societal pressures, as you suggest, but does that ultimately change anything?

It doesn't. Unless we change the social norms at the root of it, the emotional ramifications stay the same, regardless of how other countries conduct themselves. Because of how we view it in those specific instances.


I agree with that. We would have to gradually restructure the education system. Oddly enough, I recall reading a post on ATS where a doctor was pushing schools to teach sexual education to kindergarteners. That raises a very interesting question. I don't see anything wrong with it, personally. They probably wouldn't be interested as much - or maybe they would - but the part that counts is the introduction to the subject and the realization that it is what happens. This introduces the ideas and concepts (however much they understand it) and allows for more specific remedial and advanced teaching in the years to come.

In today's society, it's as if we hide reality from children (as I said before about treating our children like children for too long) by keeping them naive and immersed in a candy coated fantasy land - but for what?

Ok, it's for imagination and such. That's great, but it appears to me that imagination is better served with a backing of reason and knowledge. As it were, ATS is full of imagination that is not much backed by reason and knowledge. Most conspiracy theories are based from slivers of evidence interjected with reality, that when intertwined with imagination (speculation), make an interesting - and sometimes convincing - read. That hardly makes the theories real though. It appears that alot of members here forget the "theory" part. I guess I'm digressing though


We call it "innocence." In reality, it may be a period of hindered emotional development, or in the worst case, a mild form of socially acceptable familial retardation.



We would have to change our nations overall perception on the age of consent, and our view on maturity. Therefore, it is usally wrong to have sex with an underage person, if not only because the people in question are affected by their socially determined morality! Regardless of why it is so, they are still affected by the how of it. We think they will get emotionally damaged by having underage sex, and you know what?, they usually are. They are emotionally immature at a younger age in the US. Due to education? Due to society at large? Whateva the reason, they still is.

Again, in my opinion it depends on many factors. I wouldn't make the blanket claim that an 18 year old can't have sex with someone under 18.


I agree with that. It is easier to create a law, and so that is usually what is done. For practicality, it appears that you do have to draw the line somewhere. That being said, it may also be the very fault of society and it's laws that helps to reinforce the negative emotional response of the "underage" consenting person. The relationship is not allowed to go on, and the "criminal" is often locked away and labeled as a "sex offender." Emotional damage is bound to happen when a relationship is ended, or is not even allowed to continue due to state interference. With state interference, police, courts, and public opinion invading your relationship... well, it's never going to turn out well.

Now, I'm not talking about 5 year olds or anything. For one, it's not very practical; without a surgical operation the child would most certainly die. I don't think there are many cases that would require the impregnation of a 5 year old other than for repopulation. They'd have to be desperate at this point and risk losing a lot of "mothers" to infection. The wikipedia page lists a 9 years old as giving normal birth to a child, so I suppose 9 might be the age used for a quicker repopulation scheme.



As for the 14 year old in the swim suit. She looks good
But I fancy this one more:
Her lovelyness, Jessica Biel


Jessica Biel certainly is fit. She has a great body.

Ok, well, how about the picture of the model with the snake? That model is only twelve years old! Granted, that picture is the result of makeup, but you can't ignore the "12 to 20" year old body as such. My wife thought she was 20
.

www.kusoz.com...



posted on Mar, 20 2008 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by guppy
This story pisses me off. I agree with many of you. How can you plead guilty and then say it was an accident. Good lord!

If you are pissed at child pornography, you should read Race Against Evil by David Race Bannon.

Amazon - Race Against Evil

It is an autobiography of a guy who was hired into a secret Interpol project, called Project Archangel. Their job was to search, infiltrate and "clean" the child pornography ring.

Warning: This book is not for the light-hearted. Many times I had to put the book down because I was so angry at what people could do to innocent children.

I originally heard about this book when the author appeared as a guest on Coast to Coast AM. An interesting show to listen to as well. According to Interpol's statistics, 900,000 children a year are subjected to child pornography. 30,000 of those children are from America. It is sickening. Its a disease I believe we need to rid the world of.


I agree with you and the fact that so many of our own politicians have been caught, convicted and still remain in public office is off the charts- but it is happening.

Personally, I do not think it matters if you purchase one image or 8,000 images. He bought child porn with his credit card and that's the issue.

Granted, many victims will often seek out these images to understand the trauma's they experienced as a child- but there should be a database of this pornography and a way to introduce in therapy under close supervision and careful scrutiny as a way to help a victim push through their issues in way that does not include shame, secrecy, guilt and a host of unhealthy feelings.

Sadly there is no program because it goes opposite to all laws and beliefs- thus victims resort to secrecy and compulsive disorders.

Also the real monsters out there would probably use the loop-hole to their sick advantage which is why it remains what it is today. I feel for victims who struggle with coming to terms with their own abuse- all too often they are treated like monsters- when they are just trying to connect with understanding what the hell happened to them- they are in a minority.

I hope this police officer finds the professional help he needs if he is in fact a victim himself. Of course if he is a predator trying to hide his heinous acts as a victim- like so many predators do- then I hope he rots.

This is a very touchy subject and deeply saddening.




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