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Massacre in Tibet!

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posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by TheMaker

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by Witness2008
Nice perspective that china has on Tibet. Occupy, strip away spiritual freedom, kidnap the chosen Panchen Lama, rape, murder and genocide.


America ticks all boxes


ChinaWhite,

You know why you are getting no response from your statement? Now this is call 'Standard dodge of the guilty'. They have no rights to criticise China because they do the same and then some, to many more countries.


As the Australian who originally used the "standard etc" phrase, allow me to rebutt; As we have admitted our past crimes, we have every right to criticise those who continue to commit such crimes.

As someone who refuses to admit such crimes, you have no right to discuss our past history.

"Standard dodge of the guilty": 1. To deflect criticism by pointing out unrelated history or actions. 2. To avoid examining charges by making unrelated counter-accusations. 3. Throw as much mud as possible in the hope that some of it will stick to something and make you look less dirty by comparison. 4. At all costs avoid any self-examination.

In this specific case I blame "face". All Asians demand "face", most refuse to give it and none will back down or admit fault because they would lose "face" and that must be avoided at all costs.

"Face" is why the majority of South-East and East Asia is currently stuck so far behind the West.

Get over it.




posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 02:32 AM
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Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

Originally posted by TheMaker

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by Witness2008
Nice perspective that china has on Tibet. Occupy, strip away spiritual freedom, kidnap the chosen Panchen Lama, rape, murder and genocide.


America ticks all boxes


ChinaWhite,

You know why you are getting no response from your statement? Now this is call 'Standard dodge of the guilty'. They have no rights to criticise China because they do the same and then some, to many more countries.


As the Australian who originally used the "standard etc" phrase, allow me to rebutt; As we have admitted our past crimes, we have every right to criticise those who continue to commit such crimes.

As someone who refuses to admit such crimes, you have no right to discuss our past history.

"Standard dodge of the guilty": 1. To deflect criticism by pointing out unrelated history or actions. 2. To avoid examining charges by making unrelated counter-accusations. 3. Throw as much mud as possible in the hope that some of it will stick to something and make you look less dirty by comparison. 4. At all costs avoid any self-examination.

In this specific case I blame "face". All Asians demand "face", most refuse to give it and none will back down or admit fault because they would lose "face" and that must be avoided at all costs.

"Face" is why the majority of South-East and East Asia is currently stuck so far behind the West.

Get over it.


It still doesn't answer my question, if someone admits they have done something wrong and keep doing it and keep admitting they are wrong, does that make it right?

There is no 'face' issue here, I thought you gain 'face' by flexing your military muscle to the world! This actually makes me think Japan is better because they don't admit their crimes instead, they stop doing it.

What it boils down to is that people or country can say all they want but afterall, it is what the country does that counts.

TheMaker.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 03:00 AM
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Well, this thread is coming to an end. NO more arguing.

This is it, volks.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 06:08 AM
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[edit on 28-3-2008 by gs001]



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 08:35 AM
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reply to post by TheMaker
 


I understand why china makes the useless junk that floods this country..Greed. Corporations are making a fortune off the backs of the Chinese, your environment suffers also from the greed. I have been boycotting chinese made products for years, not because of Tibet but because of the human rights violations within China.

China needs to become a world power at any expense. Study Maos "Great Leap Forward" his insistance on farmers becoming steel makers caused one of your greatest famines and cost all Tibetans their freedoms.

The reason I did not provide proof to ChinaWhite in my last response to him was because he either can't or won't see it. Proof of Human rights violations are posted throughout this thread and others. Read through the threads.

I make my own government accountable for the crimes they commit, as do a large number of westerners, and we see those crimes just as you do, our media does expose the wrong doings of our leaders. If you care to see the lashing Americans give their leaders look through other threads here at ATS. This thread covers the crimes of China against Tibet.




posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 10:38 AM
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I find something interesting,
From my experience of browsing western forums for these several years,
I speculate that amid those westerners who have never been to China,
about 90% of them have negative feeling about China,
contrarily, amid those westerners who have been to China, about 70%
of them have positive feeling about China or even defend China.
from this we can see the bias of their "free media".
I suggest our Chinese compatriots, we don't need to waste time on those
ignorant guys, just let them be, I don't think they can make any trouble
on China's advancement, boycotting Olympics? refusing China's "crap"?
OK, just try, I'm confident that their corrupted government won't be as
stupid as them, because the elites of their corrupted government know what
is going on in China, though they always demonize China.
Yes, ordinary Americans have suffrage, but I believe they can hardly determine
their foreign policy.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by gs001
 



What is that ? Another rallying call for the dozens of chinese accounts, that coincidentally joined ATS since the start of the Tibet lockdown ? Just to let you know, the "westerners" that visited your little communist paradise have been pretty much disgusted by the way humans and animals in china are treated, by the non-existing manners of a large part of the chinese people ( sheesh, why do you feel it's necessary to spit on the street every three steps ? ), by the catastrophic environmental conditions and last but not least the complete lack of a diverse political culture. Guess i only know the "other 30%".




we don't need to waste time on those ignorant guys, just let them be


This is not the first time i've read that in the last days, unfortunately you and your compatriots seem to be unable to stop wasting your time. While i would enjoy any free and open debate on the chinese "issues", i'm starting to get tired of hearing always the same government sanctioned propaganda from people who are unable to see the other side of the debate. See, it's simple - we corrupted ignorant westerners are able to look up and research both sides and most of us can make the difference between truth and propaganda, while the complete free, honest and of course non-brainwashed chinese are blocked from seeing the other side.

Well, at least the corrupt german government won't be at the opening show in Beijing and that's just the beginning.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by Phil J. Fry
What is that ? Another rallying call for the dozens of chinese accounts, that coincidentally joined ATS since the start of the Tibet lockdown ?


Hey, they were just browsing and "happened" upon the Tibet threads, lol. Then they were saddened personally by all the western (although they think ALL of the west is America) hatred for China. They see how we are all brainwashed by our governments and strictly government controlled media and we and our media never criticize our own corrupt leaders, only China.


A must read for legitimate members who may join these threads...

en.wikipedia.org...




posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 07:14 PM
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firstly, I believe your "free media" had told you that by the end of 2007
the total number of netizen in China is exceeding that of USA, by now, we
are the biggest internet user, the only reason why only so few Chinese
access to this forum is language obstacle.
secondly, I guess that we Chinese are more interested in something concerning
China, as for topic such as UFO, alien, NWO...,hehehe, few Chinese here want
to participate.
thirdly, I know you can "criticize your own corrupt leaders", that is good.
and I also appreciate your criticism about China, if it is ture. but I find
most of the criticism base on bias, ignorance, political prejudice, That is
why a few Chinese netizen participate in this topic trying to correct you.
fourthly, Chinese netiznes here understand the languages of both sides, we
are hard to be brainwashed. how about you? welcome to Chinese forum.



[edit on 28-3-2008 by gs001]



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by Phil J. Fry
Another rallying call for the dozens of chinese accounts, that coincidentally joined ATS since the start of the Tibet lockdown ?


So where was the initial "dozens" of Chinese accounts?


Thank you for ignoring the fact that most of the "pro-china" views live in western countries which have access to supposedly "free-media". Your argument centers around the argument that the opposing side cant access information which you "supposedly" can which is false



i'm starting to get tired of hearing always the same government sanctioned propaganda from people who are unable to see the other side of the debate


Who are you referring to?

What government propganda?. Oh, you mean the Chinese Viewpoin



Gee, so someone else's opinion is "propaganda"???



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by gs001
China, as for topic such as UFO, alien, NWO...,hehehe, few Chinese here want
to participate.


Oh, okay. So you're saying Chinese folks are ONLY interested in defending China. They have NO interest in unusual, or alternative topics. Then WHY are you here? That's what this site is about. I'm QUITE sure average Chinese citizens have other interests besides China. Paid PRC disinfo agents are the ones ONLY interested in defending China. You guys aren't fooling anybody here.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd
Oh, okay. So you're saying Chinese folks are ONLY interested in defending China. They have NO interest in unusual, or alternative topics. Then WHY are you here? That's what this site is about. I'm QUITE sure average Chinese citizens have other interests besides China. Paid PRC disinfo agents are the ones ONLY interested in defending China. You guys aren't fooling anybody here.

prejudice to this degree, I have nothing to say.
I strongly suggest you to see psychologist.



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd
Paid PRC disinfo agents are the ones ONLY interested in defending China. You


So Americans here defending America are American agents?



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 09:07 PM
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reply to post by 27jd
 


So what does the average Chinese citizen enjoy to speculate on?

Technology, ancient origins, climate change, or US struggles?



posted on Mar, 28 2008 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by TheMaker
 


I understand why china makes the useless junk that floods this country..Greed. Corporations are making a fortune off the backs of the Chinese, your environment suffers also from the greed. I have been boycotting chinese made products for years, not because of Tibet but because of the human rights violations within China.

China needs to become a world power at any expense. Study Maos "Great Leap Forward" his insistance on farmers becoming steel makers caused one of your greatest famines and cost all Tibetans their freedoms.

The reason I did not provide proof to ChinaWhite in my last response to him was because he either can't or won't see it. Proof of Human rights violations are posted throughout this thread and others. Read through the threads.

I make my own government accountable for the crimes they commit, as do a large number of westerners, and we see those crimes just as you do, our media does expose the wrong doings of our leaders. If you care to see the lashing Americans give their leaders look through other threads here at ATS. This thread covers the crimes of China against Tibet.



You are making sense now, the big corps are making huge profits by flooding the American market with very low priced useless junks that sells at a very high price. For non-bigbrand categories in Walmart, Target, Autozone, Baby R'US...... their markup is 50%. And only a couple years ago, my US importer buddy told me their NET profit was 50%. While we the Chinese people make a GROSS profit of less than 10%, now this is good business. The big corps are robbing China and ripping off the American citizens!

And yes, our environment suffers greatly by using poisonous materials in the processes to produce these junks! Chrome plating, spray painting.....but you know what, the China government realize this and are putting very strict laws in controlling these processes now. This contributes to the big price increase coming to all products.

I hope your intention in boycotting China-made products is just to penalize the big corps because these poor men are just trying to make a living. All the specifications and materials used are all screened by the big corps.

As for human rights in the manufacturing sector, I can tell you that there has been no child labors anymore for the past 10 years. And if there is, those are the ones with fake ID cards and their age is right on the boarderline and they are no Child. The news are biased and this is the truth.

Here is another piece of truth concerning China Human Rights. The Chinese Government has imposed the new Labour Regulation starting Jan 01 2008. Now all the workers has a lot of rights and the government is executing the law very strictly. What it does to the manufacturing sector is that a lot of factories are going bankrupt because the workers salaries including insurance is now doubled! And they only have to work five and a half days no over time. The US importers are asking us why productivity goes down 50% and prices going up 30-40%? I tell them because we have human rights now, isn't that what you wanted? And they shut up.

You are correct that a lot of westerners do see the wrong doings in their governments. I have a lot of American friends, I am glad to say that only a very few percentage is pro-Bush. That's why I have been saying most Asians really has nothing against American citizens like you but the government.

Really glad that we are coming to a conclusion.



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 08:13 AM
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reply to post by TheMaker
 


I am pleased to hear that China is placing protections on workers and the environment. Those protections are one of the reasons that American made goods are as high priced as they are.

Corprate greed abides by no borders, the Greed on both continents wages an assault on us all. This we have come to an agreement on.

The assault on spiritual freedom still exists inside china, and the Tibetans are feeling the full force of that intolerance. But news from china gives a bit of hope that the chinese people are beginning to see that. Many of your countrymen have taken a chance on speaking what they also feel to be the truth concerning the actions of the PRC. newsblaze.com...





posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by gs001
 


I think you missed the point of my post entirely. It was not prejudiced, I was responding to you saying Chinese aren't interested in UFO's, NWO, etc., and only interested in China. I said I was sure that average Chinese people, not government agents, probably have alot of varying personal interests, like other humans. You're not ants, no matter how much your government wants you to be.



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by chinawhite
 


You're hard pressed to find many Americans defending our government here, there are a few, and they may be government agents, but more likely just part of the minority that believes what our government says is true. It isn't the US government that is SO preoccupied with what the world thinks about it, so I don't see them wasting the manpower to flood discussion forums with propaganda. If they are, they are much less obvious about it.



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by lostinspace
 


Were you asking me, or telling me? If you're asking me, I have no idea since I'm not Chinese. If you're telling me, cool. I'm sure there are Chinese that are interested in just as many varying topics as any other nationality. I say again, they are not ants, no matter how much the PRC tries to make them be.



posted on Mar, 29 2008 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by 27jd
[I think you missed the point of my post entirely. It was not prejudiced, I was responding to you saying Chinese aren't interested in UFO's, NWO, etc., and only interested in China. I said I was sure that average Chinese people, not government agents, probably have alot of varying personal interests, like other humans. You're not ants, no matter how much your government wants you to be.

Have you noticed that I used the words "I guess"? neither you nor me
can determine what topics that Chinese netizens interested in.
of course we Chinese have various personal interests,
Some Chinese netizens are just indignant of your bias, ignorance,
political prejudice of China and come here to tell you the truth.
but you believe they are PRC's agents paid by Chinese government.
so you deserve the word "prejudice".





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