Massacre in Tibet!

reply to post by chinawhite


I have just become a buddhist and seeing something like this on the news really troubles me.

I think China should not be allowed to become a wolrd leader in a economical and technological stand point until the issues human rights and domination of other countries come to trial.

The UN should impose huge fines (if possible) that are applied to the country for violating the above issues the money raised from this would go straight back to the people they have oppressed for so many years and other causes.

This is simpley not how a government is meant to act, a government is meant to serve the people not the other way around.

It is only a matter of time now in my opinion before china will be at war with another country or will have a civil war

reply to post by klain


most of your western media are anti-china and liars..
CNN means Chinese Negative News on in chinese hearts.
it is those liars trouble you, not China gov, even not Chinese.

here is the video link.
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
My point is that too often the Chinese (national and ethnic) can see no wrong done by Beijing, regardless of where those Chinese were born, grew up or live.

Every government does wrong things but depending on your perspective on the issue. The area I live in China recently had their land stolen from them to build some factories. It wasn't actually stolen but forcedly sold for a small amount per metre. Of course I think its bad and everyone else in my area think its bad but its good for other people of Chinese society. The government now invested millions of dollars building better roads, clean running water etc.

People in the Area now have a place to work (roughly 50% of the population is overseas Fujianese are a migrant sea people) and will bring in income.


On particular issues such as this I think their right, on others like the environment and land policies I think their wrong

But they are way too quick on the trigger when it comes to screaming about the abuses China and the Chinese have suffered at foreigners' (generally Japanese) hands.

Your belittling the many millions of people who died at the hands of the Japanese which is almost dishonoring their existence. The Tibetans have not even been treated nearly as worse as any other ethnic group and to compare them to the Chinese who died in WW2 at camps such as UNIT731 is utter BS

Its like a rich kid complaining about his parents being NAZIs because they wont buy him a Ferrai which is completely sickening to compare that to the holocaust and the suffering they went through

Off-topic...

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
But they are way too quick on the trigger when it comes to screaming about the abuses China and the Chinese have suffered at foreigners' (generally Japanese) hands.

Your belittling the many millions of people who died at the hands of the Japanese which is almost dishonoring their existence.

No. I'm not. If I intend to demand the Japanese apologise and compensate the comfort women, that the Japanese truly examine their past and admit the wrongs suffered by POWs, then I am not going to and I do not belittle the victims of the Rape and Nanking.

I belittle the current government that seeks to so desparately profit from an action they were not the victims of. I belittle those who use Nanking as a constant refrain.
Australia is deep in dispute with Japan over whaling. We are deeply disatisfied with their response on Comfort Women and we all know what happened on the Burma Railway and in Changi Camp (and others). The Australian gov't does not let those past actions rule our present, they do not constantly remind the Australian people of the crimes "we" suffered at the hands of the Japanese in order to deflect public gaze away from their clear failures in policy and implementation.

I belittle those who rule by misdirection, "quick, everyone protest Nanking, instead of protesting pollution, corruption and human rights abuses in the present."

The Tibetans have not even been treated nearly as worse as any other ethnic group and to compare them to the Chinese who died in WW2 at camps such as UNIT731 is utter BS

Then A) don't do it and
B) No, it isn't. To excuse current human rights abuses because of historic human rights abuses that none of the current abusers suffered is utter BS and
C) It doesn't matter whether the Tibetans are treated as poorly as others because China shouldn't be in Tibet in the first place, never mind the fact that
D) You're trying to say that the Tibetans should be happy because look at how you treat the Uighars? Perhaps you want to modify that point a little...

Its like a rich kid complaining about his parents being NAZIs because they wont buy him a Ferrai which is completely sickening to compare that to the holocaust and the suffering they went through

Standard dodge of the guilty, draw false analogies. Demanding a child who grew up decades after the Holocaust and with no personal connection to it to in any way understand its horror as anything other than a mild academic exercise is to completely misunderstand the human thought process.

No, what it is like is a murderer hating a child abuser. Both are criminals. Both are guilty. One is claiming that his crime, which deprived someone of their future, is less than the other's, which deprived someone of their future.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
I belittle the current government that seeks to so desparately profit from an action they were not the victims of.

The Chinese government was not the one who started the 2005 Anti-Japanese riots nor do they propagate "propaganda" to convince the Chinese people of what things people in their community already know. People dont have to look at text books to know these things, there were more than 200million witnesses who are willing to tell them what happened.

B) No, it isn't. To excuse current human rights abuses because of historic human rights abuses that none of the current abusers suffered is utter BS and

No one is excusing anything.

I am saying your belittling the Chinese people who suffered an horendious fate in WW2. Which re-enforce my point that "Its like a rich kid complaining about his parents being NAZIs because they wont buy him a Ferrai which is completely sickening to compare that to the holocaust and the suffering they went through"

Standard dodge of the guilty, draw false analogies.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
C) It doesn't matter whether the Tibetans are treated as poorly as others because China shouldn't be in Tibet in the first place, never mind the fact that

And then justify every other country in the world.

China already was ruling Tibet before the Creation of the US, Australia and nearly every other colony that was colonized during the enlightenment period. Just before other certain countries committed genocide and killed the native inhabitants doesn't justify their right to be there more than what the Chinese have

You're trying to say that the Tibetans should be happy because look at how you treat the Uighars? Perhaps you want to modify that point a little...

I never said that nor refered to it like that.

The Uighars groups have been added to the global terrorist list. Justify that

chinawhite, if you refuse to read what I type, this is going to go round and round in circles for a long, LONG time...

Originally posted by chinawhite
I am saying your belittling the Chinese people who suffered an horendious fate in WW2.

And which part, exactly, of this, don't you get...

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
No. I'm not. If I intend to demand the Japanese apologise and compensate the comfort women, that the Japanese truly examine their past and admit the wrongs suffered by POWs, then I am not going to and I do not belittle the victims of the Rape and Nanking.

I believe I am very specific there about who I do and do not belittle. Possibly too specific, as I do not give coverage to the victims of other Japanese war crimes.

This:

Which re-enforce my point that "Its like a rich kid complaining about his parents being NAZIs because they wont buy him a Ferrai which is completely sickening to compare that to the holocaust and the suffering they went through"

and this:

Standard dodge of the guilty, draw false analogies.

just show that your misunderstanding of what I wrote is intentional.

as for this:

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
I belittle the current government that seeks to so desparately profit from an action they were not the victims of.

The Chinese government was not the one who started the 2005 Anti-Japanese riots nor do they propagate "propaganda" to convince the Chinese people of what things people in their community already know. People dont have to look at text books to know these things, there were more than 200million witnesses who are willing to tell them what happened.

allow me to respond.

If the Chinese government did not begin the riots, why did they allow the protests to proceed and then to become riots?

There were not more than 200 million witnesses. Just because there were 200 million people present that does not make them all witnesses.

I may not belittle the suffering the Chinese people suffered under Japanese invasion and occupation, but I do belittle the bleating of modern Chinese people who were neither witnesses nor victims due to an insurmountable gap of several decades between the crimes being committed and their being born.

We suffered at their hands as well. We don't come out with this kind of crap:

"People dont have to look at text books to know these things, there were more than 200million witnesses who are willing to tell them what happened."

Self-justifying crap.

As for this:

B) No, it isn't. To excuse current human rights abuses because of historic human rights abuses that none of the current abusers suffered is utter BS and

No one is excusing anything.

More obvious crap. The whole raison d'etre of the majority of "Chinese" posts in this and other Tibet threads is for the sole purpose of excusing China's crackdown in Tibet and one of the favoured methods is to call to account the past actions of the nations of those posters crticising Beijing.

What is the point of saying "You did it, too" if you are not attempting to excuse what you are doing now?

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
C) It doesn't matter whether the Tibetans are treated as poorly as others because China shouldn't be in Tibet in the first place, never mind the fact that

And then justify every other country in the world.

I don't need to, I'm not from every other country in the world and I've already dealt with mine. But as you want to play, let's play.

China already was ruling Tibet before the Creation of the US, Australia and nearly every other colony that was colonized during the enlightenment period.

Italy was already ruling North Africa, the Middle East and Southern Europe before China was "ruling" Tibet.

If that's your justification for China ruling Tibet then the EU should be headquartered in Rome and the local administrations of Spain, England, France, Bavaria, Switzerland, Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, Lebanon, Israel, Egypt et al should be appointed by Rome.

But wait, there's more...England was ruling in large tracts of France before China was "ruling" Tibet prior to the Enlightenment. Maybe London should take back the Duchy of Normandy...

As for the creation of the US etc The US created itself not too long after the time that China points to as justifiying its high-altitude land grab.

Never mind the fact that China was not ruling Tibet when it invaded after the CCP victory over the KMT.

Just before other certain countries committed genocide and killed the native inhabitants doesn't justify their right to be there more than what the Chinese have

Dealt with. Old song, not only have I heard it before, I sang it. It becomes particularly pleasing to see you attempting to turn my argument for why Australians can criticise China into an argument for why not only Australians can't criticise China, but also why China can do as it pleases in foreign lands.

You're trying to say that the Tibetans should be happy because look at how you treat the Uighars? Perhaps you want to modify that point a little...

I never said that nor refered to it like that.

Yes, you did. You might not like it, but that's exactly how your post read. "The Tibetans have no cause for complaint, they are treated better than every other minority..."

The Uighars groups have been added to the global terrorist list. Justify that

I don't need to. I'm not the US government.
You're approaching this one from the wrong angle. I am clearly not in favour of China occupying East Turkestan. Therefore I am not going to make George W Bush's case for him when he chooses to attack Saddam Hussein and "terrorists" in the Middle East with the justification that "Democracy brings peace" while at the same time slapping the already democratic Taiwan publicly and telling them they're not allowed to publicly declare independence from a communist dictatorship or labelling an ethnic and religious minority in their own lands a "terrorist group" after the US refused to outright condemn the IRA through the Troubles. This last point I find the most hypocritical. US citizens are prosecuted for links to Hezbollah, but the IRA never had it's funding channels dried up by the courts.

[edit on 24-3-2008 by HowlrunnerIV]

EDIT : If you want to continue this please do it via U2U because I dont want to get warned again for going off-topic



Your trying to apply modern ethics to past ethnic conflicts?. China is not Han Chinese, Chinese people refer to the 56 ethnics groups which reside inside China. Your argument is simply based on the fact that you consider China only as Han Chinese and dont recognize or dont want to recognize the fact that China is not just your stereotypical version of China

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
chinawhite, if you refuse to read what I type, this is going to go round and round in circles for a long, LONG time...

And you think I reckon you read mine?

And which part, exactly, of this, don't you get...

What part?

If the Chinese government did not begin the riots, why did they allow the protests to proceed and then to become riots?

Why did they allow the Tibetan protest to become riots?. Because they didn't. Things happen which are out of peoples control

There were not more than 200 million witnesses. Just because there were 200 million people present that does not make them all witnesses.

Are you suggesting that the Japanese occupied areas didn't encounter Japanese?. Obviously the time after the PRC came to power, the general attitude reflected Anti-Japanese culture. Why do American text books teach them how they teach them reflecting the American prespective on the issue such as the killing of Native Americans (which as I gather from American members is blamed on the British), Why do the Japanese teach their students that they went into Asia to save their Asian brothers.

BECAUSE EDUCATION IS TAUGHT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE COUNTRY

excusing China's crackdown in Tibet

Standard police procedure.

I am pointing out that its not a fantasy land in reality and what the Chinese Police did are STANDARD procedure in any land. Your the one trying to nit-pick at actions and then determine that they are against human rights

You also mention that I used history as justification. No I dont, I use it to say to people here that their countries dont have clean hands and shouldn't be the people criticizing other people because they are living on the graves of dead natives

If that's your justification for China ruling Tibet

What is your justification for nationhood?.

You seem to believe the word was created with set boundaries.



Whats your argument that Tibet is a independent country. That would be a start

Never mind the fact that China was not ruling Tibet when it invaded after the CCP victory over the KMT.

And the CCP was not ruling lots of areas of China. So what?

Yes, you did. You might not like it, but that's exactly how your post read.

I read it differently

I don't need to. I'm not the US government.

What???

[edit on 24-3-2008 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
But wait, there's more...England was ruling in large tracts of France before China was "ruling" Tibet prior to the Enlightenment.

And they lost it.

So what?

Are you suggesting that the Japanese occupied areas didn't encounter Japanese?. Obviously the time after the PRC came to power, the general attitude reflected Anti-Japanese culture. Why do American text books teach them how they teach them reflecting the American prespective on the issue such as the killing of Native Americans (which as I gather from American members is blamed on the British), Why do the Japanese teach their students that they went into Asia to save their Asian brothers.

BECAUSE EDUCATION IS TAUGHT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE COUNTRY

and yet you can't comprehend that Chinese Children are taught a distorted perspective of Tibetan history ?

Originally posted by sy.gunson
and yet you can't comprehend that Chinese Children are taught a distorted perspective of Tibetan history ?

Not distorted, its a different perspective.

One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist

reply to post by chinawhite


Nice perspective that china has on Tibet. Occupy, strip away spiritual freedom, kidnap the chosen Panchen Lama, rape, murder and genocide.

Don't even ask for proof, you wouldn't be able to see it anyway.

Originally posted by Witness2008
Don't even ask for proof, you wouldn't be able to see it anyway.

So thats your excuse for not having proof?

Originally posted by Witness2008
Nice perspective that china has on Tibet. Occupy, strip away spiritual freedom, kidnap the chosen Panchen Lama, rape, murder and genocide.

America ticks all boxes

Originally posted by chinawhite
Your trying to apply modern ethics to past ethnic conflicts?.

Nope. I'm applying modern ethics to modern conflicts.

China is not Han Chinese,

Never said it was. But I did say the majority of "Chinese" immigrants to Tibet are Han.

Your argument is simply based on the fact that you consider China only as Han Chinese

No, but obviously your counters to my argument are based on that premise. At no point have I said that China is exclusively Han.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
chinawhite, if you refuse to read what I type, this is going to go round and round in circles for a long, LONG time...

And you think I reckon you read mine?

I know I don't accuse you of doing something immediately after you have said you don't do it without describing exactly why I think you do do it. Perhaps I was just too subtle in talking about Japan's atrocities.

And which part, exactly, of this, don't you get...

What part?

Well no wonder. I ask you which part you didn't understand and you respond by asking "what part?". No, no, no, this is where you make a dclarative statement, not an iterrogative question. Please, go back and read it again. You are determined to put your distorted view of "smug, superior Australians" or something into my words, stop it. Why can't you separate the actual victims of Japanese crimes from the Central Committee?

If the Chinese government did not begin the riots, why did they allow the protests to proceed and then to become riots?

Why did they allow the Tibetan protest to become riots?. Because they didn't. Things happen which are out of peoples control

In cities like Guangzhou, Beijing and Shanghai. Bulldust. They have no problem stepping on Falun Gong's necks. The CCP may not have been explicitly complicit in the 2005 riots, but they clearly gave their tacit approval to the protests and through their own inaction/negligence/pisspoor enforcement allowed the protests to become riots. The riots were out of their control for one of two reasons: 1. They allowed it to happen deliberately. 2. It happened because they were too useless to prevent it.

There were not more than 200 million witnesses. Just because there were 200 million people present that does not make them all witnesses.

Are you suggesting that the Japanese occupied areas didn't encounter Japanese?

No. I'm saying that not everyone was an eyewitness to the crimes. Not every Frenchman or woman living under German occupation witnessed massacres, war crimes or forced deportations.

Obviously the time after the PRC came to power, the general attitude reflected Anti-Japanese culture.

Obviously that was then and this is now.

Why do American text books teach them how they teach them reflecting the American prespective on the issue such as the killing of Native Americans (which as I gather from American members is blamed on the British)

I cannot speak to that. If it is true then the Yanks have proven themselves to be truly venal. I leave it up to them to confirm or deny. If they confirm then I spit on the committee that okayed such a book for classroom use.

Why do the Japanese teach their students that they went into Asia to save their Asian brothers.

Because they have never faced the reality of what they did or why they went there. The Germans have never claimed such a justification for WW2.

BECAUSE EDUCATION IS TAUGHT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE COUNTRY

See comments about Germany.

excusing China's crackdown in Tibet

Standard police procedure.

Crap. Not standard police procedure in Australia and you know that for a fact. I have lived in two Australian capital cities and six other cities or towns and I have never in my life seen an armoured car with a water cannon attached. I have never seen a tear gas shell fired. I have never seen the police fire on a crowd with live ammunition. I have taken part in protest marches and never seen a riot shield or a bamboo cane.

I have seen news reports of the Victorian Police at Richmond Primary School and they were publicly excoriated for their actions. Funny, but it was the Vic cops who came in for a public drubbing following the WTO protest fiasco, too. Worse, following the Richmnd Primary School debacle it was reported that Chinese media was using this as an example of "standard" western policing tactics when it was anything but and the public outcry proved it. So, the Chinese media (not in any way answerable to the Chinese government) were lying to the Chinese people about how western police forces operate (if that report from China is true).

Which isn't what I said anyway and you know it. That prticular quote, using the word "crackdown" wasn't a question. It was a response to your declaration that nobody was excusing the Chinese authorities actions in Lhasa.

I am pointing out that its not a fantasy land in reality and what the Chinese Police did are STANDARD procedure in any land.

No, they are not and I've already shown that.

Your the one trying to nit-pick at actions and then determine that they are against human rights

No, I am not. Human rights are human rights. There ain't no nit-picking there.

Police firing into a crowd "in self-defence" is the worst form of post-panic justification. If the police were scared for their lives they should have radioed their position and peril and then legged it. Firing into an already hostile crowd guarantees escalation. Unless you've got a bullet for everyone in the crowd. All that does is show how poorly-trained Chinese cops are and how pisspoor their decision-making is.

You also mention that I used history as justification. No I dont

*cough, cough* Sorry, what was that?

I use it to say to people here that their countries dont have clean hands and shouldn't be the people criticizing other people because they are living on the graves of dead natives

And as I keep pointing out, you're just a tad late to that dance. We (Australians) do have the right and the responsibility to criticise. Just as (the majority of) Germany's post-war actions give them the right to criticise Japan's post-war refusals to admit the truth.

If that's your justification for China ruling Tibet

What is your justification for nationhood?.

You seem to believe the word was created with set boundaries.

If only that were true I'd be slowly grinding to a self-contradiction induced catatonic paralysis at the thought of James Cook and Arthur Phillip. Instead of asking a further question, just answer the one you were given.

Whats your argument that Tibet is a independent country. That would be a start

The fact that it was. The fact that you had to invade it to establish your authority over it. That looks like a pretty good starting place. Oh, look, I already did that:

Never mind the fact that China was not ruling Tibet when it invaded after the CCP victory over the KMT.

And the CCP was not ruling lots of areas of China. So what?

So, the fact that China did not have sovereignty over Tibet at the time of their invasion in no way negates China's claim to Tibet being a natural and contiguous part of China...so the fact is you can't justify China's claim to Tibet.

I don't need to. I'm not the US government.

What???

Don't bring a red herring up if you don't know how to cook it.

You wanted me to justify the adding of Uighar groups to terror lists. Why would I justify it? I didn't do it and I like to talk about an entity called East Turkestan.

edit: these effing quotes are going to be the death of me!

edit: still!

[edit on 24-3-2008 by HowlrunnerIV]

[edit on 24-3-2008 by HowlrunnerIV]

Please continue it via U2U

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
Never said it was. But I did say the majority of "Chinese" immigrants to Tibet are Han.

You argument pretty much sounds like that

Well no wonder. I ask you which part you didn't understand and you respond by asking "what part?".

I read it twice before and read it again and still dont understand the point your trying to make


[quoe] The CCP may not have been explicitly complicit in the 2005 riots, but they clearly gave their tacit approval to the protests and through their own inaction/negligence/pisspoor enforcement allowed the protests to become riots.

And the lessons learnt were applied to Tibet. Simple

I'm saying that not everyone was an eyewitness to the crimes.

Japanese Crimes were so expensive that most of those 300 million occupied Chinese saw what happened. I only used 2/3 figure just as a simple reference although I think there is more

Because they have never faced the reality of what they did or why they went there.

Explain that to the Indonesians who hailed them as saviors

See comments about Germany.

The victor writes history

Not standard police procedure in Australia and you know that for a fact.

I never said Australia, you seem to always be referring to Australian examples while when I type I always think of American examples. But you have to admit they went overboard at Cranbourne with the police helicopters and dog squad

No, they are not and I've already shown that.

I posted a Video of Belgium and American police dealing with a protest by Tibetans.

Police firing into a crowd "in self-defence" is the worst form of post-panic justification.

One police man died and others had serve burns. Justification for anything. Brandishing a gun will almost guarantee the crowd to be disbursed

The fact that you had to invade it to establish your authority over it.

civil war is more like it.

Nation A attacks Nation B and establishes a chunk and makes a government there. It means Nation B losses that territory but doesn't mean it loses its claim to it.

So, the fact that China did not have sovereignty over Tibet at the time of their invasion in no way negates China's claim to Tibet being a natural and contiguous part of China.

Not when its a civil war

Protesters line the route of the Chinese Olympic Torch

Pro-Tibetan protesters today disturbed a high security ceremony to light the Olympic flame in Greece.

International dignitaries were gathered at Olympia, the site of the ancient Olympics, when three members of the Paris-based Reporters Without Borders ran onto the field to disrupt a speech by Liu Qi, president of the Beijing organising committee and Beijing Communist party secretary.

The demonstrator who got nearest to Liu Qi was carrying a banner showing the Olympic Rings as handcuffs but failed to unfurl it before being arrested.

Police detained the men along with a Tibetan campaigner and a Greek photographer travelling with him in the nearby village of Olympia, just outside the site of the ancient Games.

Lhadon Tethong, director of Students for a Free Tibet, said the men were taken to the local police station. "One of our colleagues saw them being dragged by about 20 police through town," he said.

"If the Olympic flame is sacred, human rights are even more so," Reporters Without Borders said in a statement. "We cannot let the Chinese government seize the Olympic flame, a symbol of peace, without denouncing the dramatic situation of human rights in the country."

When the incident took place, Chinese state TV cut away to a pre-recorded scene, preventing Chinese viewers from seeing the protest. TV commentators on Chinese TV did not mention the incident.

Reporters Without Borders protest against Chinese imperialism and ethnic-cleansing at the Olympic torch lighting ceremony 24 March 2008.


We can only hope that these incidents intensify and continue to meet this torch of oppression at every step of the way to Tibet. Hopefully, it will spread the momentum and forever tarnish this Olympics as the games of oppression and genocide like the Nazi Olympics .

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by IchiNiSan

 

We americans can take care of ourselves. The last I looked the grocery store shelves were as full as ever. We americans know when we have made mistakes and we take the matter in hand and deal with it. Your Chinese economy however is built on the backs of a slave labor force. Children being blown up in school because they are forced by your chinese system to earn the seat they occupy in that school room.

I preach daily to everyone I meet that chinese products are a bad idea, worthless crap. Let us say I get my message across, where would the chinese economy be then?

What I see in this thread are a couple of chinese that have been so programed that they can not see what the rest of the world sees. The differnce between china and the U.S is we can admit to our mistakes and atrocities but the chinese slaughter, rape and destory and then make fools of themselvs in order to defend their ugly deeds.

I actually had to register just to tell the Americans why they are buying worthless craps from China. As I am one of those guys who manufacture these useless junks.

1. You are getting all these junks because your importers wanted to sell you junks and make a ton of money. These importers keep asking all factories to lower their prices and when asked about qualities all their replies were 'I don't care, is it going to function?'. I said yeah but not for long, they say 'after they bought it I can care less.' When I ask about returns they say 'We already factored-in return rates, not too many people care to return them because the products are so cheap to begin with.'

2. Americans want these junks so badly! I for one make a lot of these crappy useless junks for Americans and we don't even know why they sell. The importers always tell us with the right marketing, they can sell Shxts! Educate the average citizens.

It is not that China cannot make quality products, look at the xbox, PS3 and the computer you are using. Your big corps are robbing the average American citizens! Ever wondered why we can keeping producing these 'useless craps'? Wel, they sell! and who buys?

And let me give all Americans a hint, all China produced craps have already gone up 20% since Jan 08 and most importers are trying absorb the difference but there is no way they can do this. Eventually (in a few months), you will see prices going up in retails.

Witness2008, you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to China. Have you lived there for an extended period of time? I lived in America for 20 years and I am sure I know US better than you know China! You have been brainwashed by Foxnews!

For anyone else who is interested to know more about the 'craps', you are welcome to ask.


TheMaker (no, theJunkMaker)

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by Witness2008
Nice perspective that china has on Tibet. Occupy, strip away spiritual freedom, kidnap the chosen Panchen Lama, rape, murder and genocide.

America ticks all boxes

ChinaWhite,

You know why you are getting no response from your statement? Now this is call 'Standard dodge of the guilty'. They have no rights to criticise China because they do the same and then some, to many more countries.

I have to make a statement that I have absolutely nothing against Americans, just US foriegn policy.

"What I see in this thread are a couple of chinese that have been so programed that they can not see what the rest of the world sees. The differnce between china and the U.S is we can admit to our mistakes and atrocities but the chinese slaughter, rape and destory and then make fools of themselvs in order to defend their ugly deeds."

And Witness2008, do you mean if you admit to your mistakes but keeping making more is okay? If the US doesn't invade yet another country from now on (say Iran), I am bought. But it's hard to think that way when a country keeps on invading.......