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God and the Devil: discrepancies of faith

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posted on Mar, 13 2008 @ 11:42 PM
I am a catholic by birth but I have lately come to think of myself as a Thiest. I believe in most if not all of the teachings of Jesus, but have so many questions about the bible thus far receiving only unsatisfactory answers. I am hoping some here may be able to help me explore these and other faith based questions.

There is clearly a difference in the character of God as portrayed in the Old Testament vs the New Testament. I seem to always get the reason behind this as Christ coming to be and his sacrifice eliminated the need for the vengeful God of the OT. And still people say that despite the punishment and fire and brimstone of the OT God, he was still doing it out of love and compassion much like a parent disciplines a child.

If God is all forgiving all loving, would he accept Lucifer back into heaven if he wanted?

If the devil is too evil to want to go back, this contradicts the supposed presence of God I have heard about. It is often described as a comfort and love that is beyond reason that it would be 'hell' to not be near it. It seems to reason that the devil would want to go back. If not, then basically God made him to be as such, incapable of reverting to a state even near his previous position which was soo close to God.

In order to get into the kingdom of heaven, many say you have to believe Jesus Christ died on the cross for all mans sins. If this is the case, if one believes this, but still chooses to sin, he should still get into heaven. If he is still required to live a virtuous life, then the concept behind the reason of Christ's death seem not all valid.

The arrogance factor. God wants us to worship him. This seems out of character for someone in a position of unlimited benevolent power. I can understand him wanting us to love him and want to do right, but to worship him seems..more in the realm of man.

I have so many more, I can only collect these few thoughts in a clear enough manner now to ask. I will inquire more as I get feedback. I hope to hear from many, and they be reasonable and friendly.

posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 12:09 AM
Perhaps, your religious background is creating a lot of your problems that you are having, now, with your view of Christianity.
You may have to throw out a lot of beliefs that are really just human's opinions about what the Christian religion is.
You could start by reading the latest version of the best translation of the Bible ( such as The New International Version).
You may be surprised on how much of these problem causing things are just not in there.

posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 12:34 AM
I have often thought of the same issues. First God definitely seeks worshipers. In fact that's what we will be doing in heaven for eternity according to the Bible. Might as well get used to it now.

The part of your question about the character of God is more difficult. I don't understand this either but I think the answer lies in the comprehension of the word Holy. Over and over scripture speaks of the holiness of God. Moses face was burned red by the holiness of God. What exactly is Holiness? I am not exactly sure but it scares me more than a little. says "Spiritually whole or sound; of unimpaired innocence and virtue; free from sinful affections; pure in heart; godly; pious; irreproachable; guiltless; acceptable to God."

That doesn't quite get it though does it...

"Speak to the entire assembly of Israel and say to them: 'Be holy because I, the LORD your God, am holy.(lev 19:2)

"For I am the LORD, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;" is how God repeatedly refers to himself.

The meaning of Holy needs more revelation, I don't really comprehend it yet.

I think that's where your answer lies though.

posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 12:39 AM
It looks to me, by the nature of your questions, that you are on your way to a good understanding of God, and Jesus, and salvation.

There is a big stumbleing block, that is in the title of your thread.
That is, Satan.
The problem comes from what I call satanology.
I have had people tell me, flat out, that if I did not believe in Satan, I can not be saved.
To make it simple, follow my advice, in my first post, and read whatever you think talks about Satan, in the Bible.(in the New International Version)
Almost everything that supports satanology will either, not even be there, or, in a form that is easily explained.
I think you should be able to figure out the answers to most of questions, on your own.

To be helpfull, I will throw out something that most people do not know about Lucifer.
Modern archeology tells us a lot how some things in the Bible can be understood, once you realize what they are based on.
There was a very well know myth, that was current at the time that Isaiah wrote, about the Day Star. He was a star who wanted to ascend to the highest position of the stars, the councel of the great, near the pole star.
Because of his pride, he was cast down to be the lowest star, the day
Isaiah was compairing the king of Babylon to this mythical charector when he mentioned one who is in the King James vesion , translated as Lucifer.

[edit on 14-3-2008 by jmdewey60]

posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 01:09 AM

Originally posted by Wolf321

There is clearly a difference in the character of God as portrayed in the Old Testament vs the New Testament. I seem to always get the reason behind this as Christ coming to be and his sacrifice eliminated the need for the vengeful God of the OT. And still people say that despite the punishment and fire and brimstone of the OT God, he was still doing it out of love and compassion much like a parent disciplines a child.

I hear and read great many people say this, and I read the OT a lot and don't see much difference between God in the old and God in the new, except with Yahshua sacrificed for our sins, things have become less fleshy and more spiritual. But we can learn spiritual truths based on the fleshy Israel and their saga's. God still say's vengence is His. And there is still wrath to contend with, that's what the majority of the book of Revelation deals with. (Rev 6:16-17) And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of his wrath is come, and who shall be able to stand?

Excellent question; who can stand in the great day of the wrath of the Lamb. All power has been given unto the the Lamb who was sacrificed at the foundation of the earth, for our sin, so who can stand if they don't believe in Him and thusly aren't covered by His blood. When the destroyer comes through, the only houses untouched are those smeared with the blood of the Lamb:

Exodus 12:13
And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
(same thing today except spiritual)

God's ways are not our way's and His thoughts not our thoughts, but He has been so good and merciful to reveal a great deal of His plan from the beginning all the way to the end, it should comfort us to know that God is stable, unchanging, and always fair and just in His judgements. God has always wanted a people for Himself, His portion is His people who truly love Him. He isn't tarrying for no reason, He could have wrapped it all up right then at calvary but He wants us to come unto Him, but He is so Holy it's impossible to dwell with people who are so sinful, hence the sacrifice of the Lamb, once and for all as an atonement for our sins, so we can worship Him in spirit and in truth and walk with Him in the cool of the day as Adam and Eve did before the fall. Mankind fell and God had the plan of the ages to redeem us from the fall.

Don't ever pitty Satan. If we knew the entire war that has gone on in the Heavens over us and over Satan wanting to be like the Most High God and Satans utter rebellion and hatred for our God, we would never even 'go there' with feeling sorrow for him. Satan hates you and will do anything to get you to rebel as he did toward God. There is no love in Him. Yahshua say's "the prince of this world cometh and have nothing in me" And if Yahshua is love and sacrifice, then that should sum it up for what the devil is.

And there will/is going to be plenty of fire and brimstone. Yahshua say's He came not to bring peace, but to set a fire on the earth and oh how He wished it were already kindled. Well the fire is kindling and there's a lot of sorrows to go through before it is all done and He returns. God is awesome in all His way's, sometimes we can't understand the 'why's' but rest assured one day it will all make perfect sense


If God is all forgiving all loving, would he accept Lucifer back into heaven if he wanted?

There was a post sort of like this a few weeks ago? About Lucifer allowed back into heaven. If I were more ats savvy, I might could bring it up for you, it was interesting. First though, Lucifer the personage has been somehwhat misconstrued, he isn't Satan, the serpent, dragon devil, he was a king of Babylon. So it isn't our place really to say whether he's allowed into heaven or not. We need to be more concerned whether we are allowed into heaven. God takes care of His own. But I believe God can do wondrous things, he can and even say's that all things will be brought back to who knows, but for certain we'll one day see.

posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 01:19 AM
No offence Brother but [SNIP] God?! Yikes did I just say that? YEP... Can I get drum roll? Please accomodate. I love the big black nothingness...I worship the stars in the sky, problem is they don't worship back? Not that I reqire any sota fedback, but I require a NON-SELFISH outlook, cant swing it then you [snip] is mine, quite literally.

I watched a movie the other day where reptilians cam from the ocean and assaulted a large city. Thing is, I dreamt a similar thing about 2 years before the movie came out. I saw these demon like creatures running on all fours about half the stature of man looking to devour all those who weren't sanctified in THOUGHT and DEED by the example of CHRIST. I mean this. Their is nothing more important than understanding the WORD, Take heed only those who are saved are free... The greatest calamity to ever befall humanity is the hands of two people...Dig it and be PURE of heart!


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[edit on 14-3-2008 by Gemwolf]

posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 09:50 AM
reply to post by Wolf321

Hi, Wolf321! As for the character of God and the evidence, so it appears, between two Gods, I will post, in part, what I posted in another thread regarding that concern:

People seem to see two God’s between the Testaments, but He is the same God, He never changes. He is a loving God, but He is also a righteous God. One may be bothered by the actions of the Old Testament God, and see a loving God in the New Testament, but, look into the Book of Revelation and, to the unbelieving eyes, that Mean, Old Testament God resurfaces, pouring out judgement and fury. Yet, in the eyes, of the believing, whether looking back or forward, we see a God who loves us and defends us against evil and corrupt men, all the way down to their offspring. For no good thing comes from a seed that is corrupt, when it blooms and grows, it is just as corrupt as from the one who produced the seed. (My own words )

This statement came from a discussion about how God could wipe out people, all the way down to their children, as He did in the Old Testament.

As for Worship of God, and that appearing as arrogant, which it could to the natural mind, personally speaking from all I have experienced from the Lord over my years, one thing I do realize is that He is good and given the fact that He has provided such an escape for us, through Christ, from His coming judgement, that we might share in eternity with Him, things our present mind can not comprehend, I can't help but not regard the worship He is due throughout eternity from us.

[edit on 14-3-2008 by jdposey]

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