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Obama's Pastor Blames America for 9-11
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[continued from previous post]
Who has not rebelled against their parents and what they stood for?
"I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother’s race.”
Is a statement that Obama made that clearly illustrates his conflicted self-perception as a young man. How does one reconcile two halves of himself that are both hated? One half that is hated by the person and the other half hated by society. In order to accept, embrace, and love himself and his heritage completely Obama had to grow. The quoted statement is a statement made when Obama was a young man in college, and it also serves as evidence that his struggle to come to terms with his identity continued. It appears in a book he wrote called, Dreams of My Father. It is also a statement that as presented in this thread is taken out of the context of Obama's personal life and story which he decided to share with the world through the book.
The tenor of this thread is by many measures made up of remarks that are sustained by fear and hardly anything else. It is clear that many do not know their own history well enough to appreciate the history of others. The United States is a place where America continuously suffers because of the lack of mutual understanding among its people. It is a place of shared history where those concerned choose only to learn and understand that which directly benefits them, thereby ignoring that which is essential in order to understand their fellow countrymen.
On one side there is Pastor Wright who preaches about the injustice of not only Black people but also oppressed people throughout the world. When he speaks of White oppression many say that he hates all white people, that he blames all White people. Yet Wright is not wrong to criticize and condemn the practices and policies that Black people and poor people have suffered in the United States at the hands and policies of White people. Policies that were specifically written and coded against Black people.
HIV is not restricted to Black people or any other race. Yet somehow the message of condemning the acts that government has sanctioned and supported, the testing of dangerous, deadly biological and chemical agents on its own citizens and citizens of other countries, has caused many folks to condemn Pastor Wright rather than condemn the government that's responsible for committing those heinous acts. One doesn't have to know about Project Paperclip in order to know that certain government policies have worked against them. Policies that were conspired and drafted and approved of in secret. All one has to do is look closely and reflect on one's own situation and then take the time needed to understand what their fellow man says and means, and thus come to know about those things.
A White farmer in the Mid-West doesn't have to know everything there is to know about Pastor Wright to understand his message. He could understand that Pastor Wright and himself both oppose an oppressive regime that has wreaked their lives, destroyed their livelihood, and decimated their communities. All the farmer has to do is hear the message and he would know that the White oppression that Wright speaks of does not necessarily include him, his community, and the other farmers who suffer. The farmer, if he is educated about the legislative history, corporate, and financial history of the United States would have no problem understanding Pastor Wright. He would know easily that when Wright speaks of White oppression he is not referring to what is formally understood as the Caucasian race.
On the other hand we have Senator Obama whose heritage represents the fullness of America's racial divide. His father was Black and African. A man who was educated at Harvard University. A man who ended up moving back to Kenya, where he was from, where he made a living. For Obama's father it must have been an interesting experience to be Black and African in a country that enslaved Black Africans, decimated their culture and locked them out of all the vital processes of the country for nearly 200 years. Obama who never got to know his father must have wondered about many things. One thing that Obama has made clear is that he had to search for his identity. Even though he already had one, for a long time he wasn't sure what it was. When he realized that he was whole, not half this and half that, he came to love himself and deeply respect his heritage. Obama wrote two books sharing the story of his development and struggle to become who he is today. He has said that he disagrees with Pastor Wright sometimes, but he has also said that he will not disown Wright because it would be the equivalent of disowning a part of himself and the Black community. Obama has said that he disagrees with the historical treatment of Blacks, but he has also said that he will not disown the United States of America. That he has come to recognize the greatness of our country, that it has played a critical role in the development of himself, and that he will stand for it in its entirety and defend it.
Obama in current form is an expression of how he has come to grips with himself, his heritage, and his country. He is put to the test every day, which leaves no doubt that he is still developing. Having a life that featured certain accolades does not mean that Obama did not work hard to achieve them. Because he grew up in Hawaii does not mean that he still did sense and crave a connection with Black Americans on the mainland. Previous to Harvard law school Obama lived in Chicago where he was a community activist. He returned to Chicago after Harvard and resumed his work in leading and helping to organize Black communities.
Obama's message of working hard to achieve unity is something that he knows firsthand, and for which there is plenty of evidence for others to consider. He knows that the United States of America has to go through a similar process that he has gone through if it wants to achieve unity.
Ideally, coming to an understanding of one's self and one's history would create the need to understand the history of others. Often this does not happen. What happens is one learns up until the point where one feels comfortable enough to takes a side. What continues is the edification and support of what one already knows. What ceases is learning and acquiring a deep understanding of others and things one does not know. If a person continues to learn about themselves then they necessarily will have to come to a understanding about others. The United States has done awful things and has existed in denial about many things for a long time, but the country does not have to continue to perpetuate the worst of its legacy and remain in its present condition. Senator Barack Obama's life serves as a metaphor for this and it is his message whether he becomes President of the United States or not. Whether folks come to terms with their own lives and their own histories in order to understand others or not.
Who has not rebelled against their parents and what they stood for?
"I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother’s race.”
Is a statement that Obama made that clearly illustrates his conflicted self-perception as a young man. How does one reconcile two halves of himself that are both hated? One half that is hated by the person and the other half hated by society. In order to accept, embrace, and love himself and his heritage completely Obama had to grow. The quoted statement is a statement made when Obama was a young man in college, and it also serves as evidence that his struggle to come to terms with his identity continued. It appears in a book he wrote called, Dreams of My Father. It is also a statement that as presented in this thread is taken out of the context of Obama's personal life and story which he decided to share with the world through the book.
The tenor of this thread is by many measures made up of remarks that are sustained by fear and hardly anything else. It is clear that many do not know their own history well enough to appreciate the history of others. The United States is a place where America continuously suffers because of the lack of mutual understanding among its people. It is a place of shared history where those concerned choose only to learn and understand that which directly benefits them, thereby ignoring that which is essential in order to understand their fellow countrymen.
On one side there is Pastor Wright who preaches about the injustice of not only Black people but also oppressed people throughout the world. When he speaks of White oppression many say that he hates all white people, that he blames all White people. Yet Wright is not wrong to criticize and condemn the practices and policies that Black people and poor people have suffered in the United States at the hands and policies of White people. Policies that were specifically written and coded against Black people.
HIV is not restricted to Black people or any other race. Yet somehow the message of condemning the acts that government has sanctioned and supported, the testing of dangerous, deadly biological and chemical agents on its own citizens and citizens of other countries, has caused many folks to condemn Pastor Wright rather than condemn the government that's responsible for committing those heinous acts. One doesn't have to know about Project Paperclip in order to know that certain government policies have worked against them. Policies that were conspired and drafted and approved of in secret. All one has to do is look closely and reflect on one's own situation and then take the time needed to understand what their fellow man says and means, and thus come to know about those things.
A White farmer in the Mid-West doesn't have to know everything there is to know about Pastor Wright to understand his message. He could understand that Pastor Wright and himself both oppose an oppressive regime that has wreaked their lives, destroyed their livelihood, and decimated their communities. All the farmer has to do is hear the message and he would know that the White oppression that Wright speaks of does not necessarily include him, his community, and the other farmers who suffer. The farmer, if he is educated about the legislative history, corporate, and financial history of the United States would have no problem understanding Pastor Wright. He would know easily that when Wright speaks of White oppression he is not referring to what is formally understood as the Caucasian race.
On the other hand we have Senator Obama whose heritage represents the fullness of America's racial divide. His father was Black and African. A man who was educated at Harvard University. A man who ended up moving back to Kenya, where he was from, where he made a living. For Obama's father it must have been an interesting experience to be Black and African in a country that enslaved Black Africans, decimated their culture and locked them out of all the vital processes of the country for nearly 200 years. Obama who never got to know his father must have wondered about many things. One thing that Obama has made clear is that he had to search for his identity. Even though he already had one, for a long time he wasn't sure what it was. When he realized that he was whole, not half this and half that, he came to love himself and deeply respect his heritage. Obama wrote two books sharing the story of his development and struggle to become who he is today. He has said that he disagrees with Pastor Wright sometimes, but he has also said that he will not disown Wright because it would be the equivalent of disowning a part of himself and the Black community. Obama has said that he disagrees with the historical treatment of Blacks, but he has also said that he will not disown the United States of America. That he has come to recognize the greatness of our country, that it has played a critical role in the development of himself, and that he will stand for it in its entirety and defend it.
Obama in current form is an expression of how he has come to grips with himself, his heritage, and his country. He is put to the test every day, which leaves no doubt that he is still developing. Having a life that featured certain accolades does not mean that Obama did not work hard to achieve them. Because he grew up in Hawaii does not mean that he still did sense and crave a connection with Black Americans on the mainland. Previous to Harvard law school Obama lived in Chicago where he was a community activist. He returned to Chicago after Harvard and resumed his work in leading and helping to organize Black communities.
Obama's message of working hard to achieve unity is something that he knows firsthand, and for which there is plenty of evidence for others to consider. He knows that the United States of America has to go through a similar process that he has gone through if it wants to achieve unity.
Ideally, coming to an understanding of one's self and one's history would create the need to understand the history of others. Often this does not happen. What happens is one learns up until the point where one feels comfortable enough to takes a side. What continues is the edification and support of what one already knows. What ceases is learning and acquiring a deep understanding of others and things one does not know. If a person continues to learn about themselves then they necessarily will have to come to a understanding about others. The United States has done awful things and has existed in denial about many things for a long time, but the country does not have to continue to perpetuate the worst of its legacy and remain in its present condition. Senator Barack Obama's life serves as a metaphor for this and it is his message whether he becomes President of the United States or not. Whether folks come to terms with their own lives and their own histories in order to understand others or not.
One... last... time... KEEP ON TOPIC AND CUT OUT THE PERSONAL TRIPE!!!
Originally posted by cmptrwhiz
emigration is much different than slavery.
I didn't say the Irish in America were slaves. I said WAY BACK in Ireland they were slaves. I said way back in most everyone's ancestory there is slavery. Humans have always practiced slavery. Every corner of the globe ... all through the thousands of years.
protestant religion came directly from the catholic church, you know, one of the schisms with martin luther?
yes, Martin Luther broke from the Catholic faith. BROKE WITH. And since then, there have been hundreds upon hundreds of protestant groups. NONE of them come even close to being Catholic. Not a one. Not close in theology and definately without financial ties. They are in direct competition. Again - google up Jack Chick.
you mean to tell me, that while blacks were working as slaves, they were allowed to own slaves? ... RIDICULOUS!
No one said that slaves owned slaves. It was said over and over ... FREED BLACKS in this country owned slaves. They owned slaves at a higher percentage rate then white people.
i'm not surprised you believe in aliens.
This is a conspiracy site that heavily is into aliens and the supernatural.
Try finding people here who don't believe in the existence of either aliens or supernatural entities. That's a large part of the purpose of this site.
you said i was delusional,
No. I said that you were in denial.
by the euros standards, of course the African can be cruel,
No. By HUMAN standards EVERYONE can be cruel. No one race of people on the planet have a corner market on cruelty. All races ... all creeds ... both genders ... Everyone CAN be cruel.
wahwahwah
slavery has never ended.
Slavery in America ended more than 150 years ago.
Slavery in Africa is still going on - blacks owning blacks.
Slavery in Asia -mostly sex slavery - is still massive - asians selling asians.
Slavery in Europe is also going on - much in the 'sex trade'- whites selling whites.
Sweat shops exist. They are a kind of slavery. These are outlawed in America, but they pop up from time to time. They are used massively overseas. China's use of political prisoners in sweat shops could be considered slavery. (I consider it to be)
The slavery that you speak of in America is long gone. Prejudice and unfair business practices as well as laws that are unfair toward people based upon gender or race have been, and sometimes still are, a problem. But slavery is gone.
stop guessing and assuming. it makes the rest of your shoddy comments look even more shoddy.
I posted links to facts. That's not guessing and assuming.
You claim Wright is right.
Please post links with facts that show that Wright is right.
Back up your claims with some links and facts.
Thank you.
Originally posted by cmptrwhiz
1. not silly at all - where did the come from? start? hmmm
Well technically it started in Judea with Jesus and His Apostles, especially Peter and non Apostle Paul who spread Christianity throughout the Greco Roman World. The Roman Emperor Constantine solidified it with a Universal Christian church. Catholic is Latin for Universal. The Assyrian, Coptic, and Ethiopian churches never quite incorporated in to the Roman one. Later the Byzantine Orthodox churches split with Rome. Much later the Church of England split with Rome forming the Anglican church. Martin Luther and John Calvin made a very large split, that resulted in Europe having holy wars for over hundred years, entire towns were razed, nations were bankrupt, and the Protestant schism was complete. To this day many Protestant Churches, as they did back then, believe Rome is an Antichrist, Beast or Babylon. So there's 1600 years in a nutshell.
4. i'm talking to the euro - they are the murders and enslavers of the African. We aren't putting this off on anyone else. 500 years in this place - pay up!
You can't lump Europeans all together like that. Here's your slave traders: English, French, Dutch, Spanish, and Portuguese. You still have over half of Europe who either had almost or completely nothing to do with African slave trade. You can't blame the whole Continent for the actions of less than half of it. Even in those nations involved it was the Elite, the Wealthy Landowners who bought slaves.
Again who did the Slave Traders get the slaves from? The West African Elite sold them. These warlords were the same as todays Charles Taylor. Corrupt, greedy, and with no compassion for their people. West Africa has not changed. Liberia, Sierra Leone, etc. The Corrupt Elite live well, while the people in the streets starve and die from AIDS.
5. put down YOUR history books and turn off YOUR news - that seems to be the major issue here. you have been fed garbage and it is flowing out of your belly.
SO what is your Omniscient Source of Information?
6. irish slaves? what a joke - they chose to come here, unlike the African. pick up a real book. euro is surely the issue, let's not run from that fact. we are all in agreement there. not talking about you middle to lower class euros, but the absolute elite who own govs and corps and land and natural resources. we know you can't do anything - this is directed to them. you are just carrying their flag for them while they are continually going up in you. bend over bud!
Do you know anything about Irish History? About the Genocide by the English, Overpopulation and the Famines? The Irish were Victims. Some were enslaved by the English, others fled the country to try to survive in the American colonies.
7. mlk????? you have got to be kidding. out of all the Africans who can be named and looked up to, you euros always bring up this dude. he was your guy! he allowed women and children to be abused by the euro to advance the euros cause! blown up little children, dogs sicked on women and children, hoses, do I need to go on? Yeah, you liked him because you didn't even have to ask for the booty, he gave it to you! what about Malcolm X, Huey, Eldridge, Frederick, Harriet, the list goes on and on if you want to talk about real leaders/heros/martyrs/examples - but because they didn't play the euro game and mlk did, guess who gets the hero, martyr card? it's laughable!
You Euros? If I'm "Euro", Barack Obama is Euro. If Dr. King played the game why is he dead? Why do you think he got shot? He died fighting for what he believed in. He died for a dream, a vision of peace, freedom, and community. People of all races and creeds should not let his death be in vain.
8. who the hell is g-d? does god exist or is that something else someone told you? hahahaha - what about santa? you tell your kids about him? oh, and easter with a bunny laying eggs! sick, sick, sick... halloween, i'm sure you celebrate that too! sick, sick, sick - and you let your kids believe it too so i'm sure you teach them patriotism, racism and the like. sick, sick, sick!
Regardless of what you believe, I have faith in G-d. I have seen things in war in Iraq and Afghanistan that have firmly reinforced that belief.
10. you are so funny - wright can condemn whomever he wishes. because for the most part, he is on point. you all for the most part, espouse the dreams and wishes of your forefathers without knowing their true intent for america (the corp). but, because it works for you and some others, you would want everyone to hold on to the dream. that is not reality for most of the people here in america (the corp). get a clue, get out of your cave and take a look at the real world. it's only patriots like you who allow this gov to do what it's doing without regard for any human on the planet if they aren't in their bloodline. which you aren't and which is why you are middle or lower class in this society. paying taxes when you aren't really required to. saluting a flag that you have no idea of the reason why it was created.
we come from the slaves who had limbs cut off, were fed the last of everything, told they weren't human, wives and daughters raped, money stolen, given the fairytale of jesus/god/satan, had generations standing on their backs while told they were - that meaning doesn't even fit the African. we will never forget and we won't let you forget it either as much as you would want to.
My forefathers? Again who the heck do you think my forefathers are? Let me forget?
Ive got Semitic, Lakota, Creole, and Scots-Irish ancestors who got Oppressed, Enslaved, and Persecuted. I wont be forgetting what happened to my ancestors. I got slaves, poor and uneducated immigrants all in my ancestry. So dont tell me who you think I am or what I should remember.
With that said, I refuse to argue and stray off topic any longer. The topic is Barack Obama and his Pastor. Again I dont agree with Wright at all. He stereotypes and generalizes. Him being Obama's Mentor, I cannot logically accept that Obama does not have the same ideas as his pastor. So no I will not support him.
[edit on 19/3/08 by MikeboydUS]
reply to post by FlyersFan
1. You tried to bring up irish slavery - doesn't work.
2. You look up jack chick. it's like saying a woman had a baby yet she is no longer the mother! what a joke.
3. bad bad bad stats - but you keep trying. your jokes and lies keep growing larger. this doens't even make sense, especially since its coming from you. we are now supposed to believe that the African owned more slaves here in america than the euro. man, i can't stop laughing.
4. no questioning the site, i'm just not surprised YOU trust in aliens.
5. read your own post sometime.
6. no, the euro is cruel.
7. wahwahwah
8. wrong again. you are kidding right? there's no prejudice or unfair business practices? woohoo, i must have died and woke up! what did i miss? last time i check, that's all there is in america towards dark skinned people. just like most of the responses that come through these blogs. you can surely tell prejudice hasn't gone anywhere. and as for the workplace - yet another joke. you should be a comedian.
9. i'm not claiming wright is right - i know wright is right.
10. i haven't seen any facts, only outlandish wishes and dreams you own.
11. here's a link: enron.
12. here's a link: the 'fed' just helped chase bail out bear sterns.
13. here's a link: we are not at war with iraq. estimates say that 3 trillion will be spent there before we are done.
14. here's a link: slavery, prejudice is not over. do away with the constitution and have the PEOPLE of america (the corp) write a new one that includes ALL people (which this one does not). written by slave owners - you know, your forefathers.
15. here's a link: give back the slave money!
1. You tried to bring up irish slavery - doesn't work.
2. You look up jack chick. it's like saying a woman had a baby yet she is no longer the mother! what a joke.
3. bad bad bad stats - but you keep trying. your jokes and lies keep growing larger. this doens't even make sense, especially since its coming from you. we are now supposed to believe that the African owned more slaves here in america than the euro. man, i can't stop laughing.
4. no questioning the site, i'm just not surprised YOU trust in aliens.
5. read your own post sometime.
6. no, the euro is cruel.
7. wahwahwah
8. wrong again. you are kidding right? there's no prejudice or unfair business practices? woohoo, i must have died and woke up! what did i miss? last time i check, that's all there is in america towards dark skinned people. just like most of the responses that come through these blogs. you can surely tell prejudice hasn't gone anywhere. and as for the workplace - yet another joke. you should be a comedian.
9. i'm not claiming wright is right - i know wright is right.
10. i haven't seen any facts, only outlandish wishes and dreams you own.
11. here's a link: enron.
12. here's a link: the 'fed' just helped chase bail out bear sterns.
13. here's a link: we are not at war with iraq. estimates say that 3 trillion will be spent there before we are done.
14. here's a link: slavery, prejudice is not over. do away with the constitution and have the PEOPLE of america (the corp) write a new one that includes ALL people (which this one does not). written by slave owners - you know, your forefathers.
15. here's a link: give back the slave money!
reply to post by MikeboydUS
1. stop it! they are still intermingled and working on bringing it back under one umbrella. anti-christ? hahaha they are one in the same, just that pro is a wing and the cath needed to build up membership. they have never been separated and never will be.
2. lump!
3. I keep hearing how the African 'elite' traded slaves. And I pondered for a moment to think about where this story came from and how it was mentioned that the victor of the war writes the history. so again, i am left to think that the euro created this story for the most part. It's almost as if you want to say the 'elite' said heree, you can work them to death, rape the women and children, dumb them down, strip them of everything, etc... I surely can't imagine that was the conversation or the situation. we are all a bit smarter than that. And, over time, if you look at the waste and abuse, the 'elite' surely couldn't have known they wearing doing business with a mass murdering serial killer.
4. me! you see, im more trustworthy and honest than those who have provided us all the historical record. there are a few here who have written eloquently on their understanding of history. however, it's all coming from a tainted perspective if it is only coming from the position of those in power. that's what we have always had as truth in america (the corp). think about it; in school, you never learned about the Africa, Asian or Mexican - heck, even the irish emigrants who helped put america (the corp) together. you only learned of the euro and his 'supposed' inventions and enginuity. when over time, opposition to their supposition has been proven false, not true, tainted, not as if it was purported or recorded. we all know that for the most part. so your guess is as good as mine or no better than mine in the end. we all would like to remove the scars and diseases of hatred and violence placed on us or blamed on us by this incredible sick power structure. it can never be accomplished if we don't realize the sickness, who the sick is, and get rid of it. in medicine, you have to know the source in order to find a cure, vaccination or treatment; this is no different. we have identified the source - now what? you are going to fight me because i want reparations for the damages placed upon my ancestry from the proceeds that are still in circulation today when your gov is admitting guilt by giving reparations elsewhere? you have got to be kidding. slavery was good for the goose and the gander and so are reparations.
5. again, a common thread - the sick, nasty, evil euro. even attacking his own. I addressed this already when people claim irish slavery. your own drove you out of your own. you weren't forced into slavery in america, you asked for it. and how the america (your own kind) looked down on you (the irish) you now do it to every 'other' culture that comes to america (the corp) because you feel this is yours. what a joke!
6. again, you believing the lies. that's what 'they' told you. why didn't they kill him while marching through the south - wouldn't that have made more sense? he had been taking gov money to make marches without violence, you think the people at that time knew about that? so when he stops playing ball, he becomes a communist and a homo. hmmm - that's odd, we had never heard that prior. ok - you go with your story. people of all races - hahahaha! what about people - PERIOD. people shouldn't let any of these killings go in vain: jfk, malcolm x, ron brown, mlk, new orleans, 9/11 and so on and so on.
7. so what? have you seen the american military kill innocent? of course - where is the god in that? hahaha - incredible. i'm certain you have taught your kids about santa and will be celebrating easter (rabbit laying eggs - what's that about) on sunday! oh, a lil secret - we are not at war with iraq/afghanistan,you have been fed bad info
1. stop it! they are still intermingled and working on bringing it back under one umbrella. anti-christ? hahaha they are one in the same, just that pro is a wing and the cath needed to build up membership. they have never been separated and never will be.
2. lump!
3. I keep hearing how the African 'elite' traded slaves. And I pondered for a moment to think about where this story came from and how it was mentioned that the victor of the war writes the history. so again, i am left to think that the euro created this story for the most part. It's almost as if you want to say the 'elite' said heree, you can work them to death, rape the women and children, dumb them down, strip them of everything, etc... I surely can't imagine that was the conversation or the situation. we are all a bit smarter than that. And, over time, if you look at the waste and abuse, the 'elite' surely couldn't have known they wearing doing business with a mass murdering serial killer.
4. me! you see, im more trustworthy and honest than those who have provided us all the historical record. there are a few here who have written eloquently on their understanding of history. however, it's all coming from a tainted perspective if it is only coming from the position of those in power. that's what we have always had as truth in america (the corp). think about it; in school, you never learned about the Africa, Asian or Mexican - heck, even the irish emigrants who helped put america (the corp) together. you only learned of the euro and his 'supposed' inventions and enginuity. when over time, opposition to their supposition has been proven false, not true, tainted, not as if it was purported or recorded. we all know that for the most part. so your guess is as good as mine or no better than mine in the end. we all would like to remove the scars and diseases of hatred and violence placed on us or blamed on us by this incredible sick power structure. it can never be accomplished if we don't realize the sickness, who the sick is, and get rid of it. in medicine, you have to know the source in order to find a cure, vaccination or treatment; this is no different. we have identified the source - now what? you are going to fight me because i want reparations for the damages placed upon my ancestry from the proceeds that are still in circulation today when your gov is admitting guilt by giving reparations elsewhere? you have got to be kidding. slavery was good for the goose and the gander and so are reparations.
5. again, a common thread - the sick, nasty, evil euro. even attacking his own. I addressed this already when people claim irish slavery. your own drove you out of your own. you weren't forced into slavery in america, you asked for it. and how the america (your own kind) looked down on you (the irish) you now do it to every 'other' culture that comes to america (the corp) because you feel this is yours. what a joke!
6. again, you believing the lies. that's what 'they' told you. why didn't they kill him while marching through the south - wouldn't that have made more sense? he had been taking gov money to make marches without violence, you think the people at that time knew about that? so when he stops playing ball, he becomes a communist and a homo. hmmm - that's odd, we had never heard that prior. ok - you go with your story. people of all races - hahahaha! what about people - PERIOD. people shouldn't let any of these killings go in vain: jfk, malcolm x, ron brown, mlk, new orleans, 9/11 and so on and so on.
7. so what? have you seen the american military kill innocent? of course - where is the god in that? hahaha - incredible. i'm certain you have taught your kids about santa and will be celebrating easter (rabbit laying eggs - what's that about) on sunday! oh, a lil secret - we are not at war with iraq/afghanistan,you have been fed bad info
reply to post by MikeboydUS
Remember this: i think you are sad with your many excuses for abuses to any human. how's that?
all this has to do with wright. why do you think he would speak on it. there was no way obama was going to be pres anyway in this racially divided wasteland. euro wouldn't let that happen and if one lil thing like this can cause him to be thrown aside - it's a really sad state. because if you take the time, you can find many questionable affiliations with your euro president, vice pres, and all the candidates running. but, having to accept the fact that he might still be holding on to the African legacy in america (the corp) bothers most euros.
Did enron bother you? Does the state of america (the corp) bother you? who do you think caused and is causing this crap? who do you think they affiliate with? it is known the saddam conducted business with our gov the same as obama - but i'm sure most here voted for bush both times!
again, you are sad in your opinions because it's driven by racism and you would rather have a puppet in office than someone with a mind that really works.
but that's the euro way! it's a game and a sham and you all fall for it each time. candidate looks good, bring up some dirt, viola! got him - it's over. each one of us have a friend or two who is quesionable, not the norm, different than most, but we aren't crucified by that. we still work, raise our families, etc... why is this guy any diff? he didn't just become a member of the church, he didn't just form his opinions, he didn't just become friends with the man.
i think it's sad he is back-tracking and distancing himself from the guy just to pacify the euro. it's a tactic the euro has used for many years with the black panthers and malcolm x. and the dummies keep falling for it. time and time again because like jesus, they hope and pray that the gov is the savior it claims to be and guess what - the same thing happens over and over again! they actually have done the same trick many times; assassinations, pearl harbor-9/11, the many secret missions and missionaries, the puppet leaders throughout the world. with a mentality like yours, they are able to keep the lies going forever. because you believe in fairytales in lieu of whats presented to you because your are nothing but sheep and you know what they do to sheep...
Remember this: i think you are sad with your many excuses for abuses to any human. how's that?
all this has to do with wright. why do you think he would speak on it. there was no way obama was going to be pres anyway in this racially divided wasteland. euro wouldn't let that happen and if one lil thing like this can cause him to be thrown aside - it's a really sad state. because if you take the time, you can find many questionable affiliations with your euro president, vice pres, and all the candidates running. but, having to accept the fact that he might still be holding on to the African legacy in america (the corp) bothers most euros.
Did enron bother you? Does the state of america (the corp) bother you? who do you think caused and is causing this crap? who do you think they affiliate with? it is known the saddam conducted business with our gov the same as obama - but i'm sure most here voted for bush both times!
again, you are sad in your opinions because it's driven by racism and you would rather have a puppet in office than someone with a mind that really works.
but that's the euro way! it's a game and a sham and you all fall for it each time. candidate looks good, bring up some dirt, viola! got him - it's over. each one of us have a friend or two who is quesionable, not the norm, different than most, but we aren't crucified by that. we still work, raise our families, etc... why is this guy any diff? he didn't just become a member of the church, he didn't just form his opinions, he didn't just become friends with the man.
i think it's sad he is back-tracking and distancing himself from the guy just to pacify the euro. it's a tactic the euro has used for many years with the black panthers and malcolm x. and the dummies keep falling for it. time and time again because like jesus, they hope and pray that the gov is the savior it claims to be and guess what - the same thing happens over and over again! they actually have done the same trick many times; assassinations, pearl harbor-9/11, the many secret missions and missionaries, the puppet leaders throughout the world. with a mentality like yours, they are able to keep the lies going forever. because you believe in fairytales in lieu of whats presented to you because your are nothing but sheep and you know what they do to sheep...
Jeremiah Wright was White House guestwww.politico.com...
Has a nice picture of Bill Clinton shaking hands.the picture
Hope this isn't to far off topic.
Has a nice picture of Bill Clinton shaking hands.the picture
Hope this isn't to far off topic.
reply to post by JBA2848
You beat be too it I was just about to post that. Maybe that's why Billary has been so mum on the issue.
You beat be too it I was just about to post that. Maybe that's why Billary has been so mum on the issue.
Can you honestly say the racism isn't a two-way street? Take your own comment.. "i have allot of very cool Caucasian friends" Are they really your friends, or are they your caucasian friends? You seem to make some dinstinction there. I have friends that happen to be Black, and we've talked about this very issue. A friend is a friend regardless of their skin color.
Originally posted by future flow
im a African American,i have allot of very cool Caucasian friends...but there are allot of white people i meet who don't deal with black people on a regular basis and interact with me the way they see on television and buy into stereo types and that in itself is racism,not as bad as walking up and saying hi mr n!@#!,but still makes us feel the same kinda way.
Reverend Wright seems to want to lump all white people into the same category. There's good and bad in every race, and to say otherwise is just bs. There's white people I choose not to hang around with. We agree on nothing, and I'd just assume not associate or be associated with them.
Who exactly are you referring to when you say "Euro"? Do you mean White people in general? Do we alll fit so easily into one category for you? White people come from other places aside from Europe.
Originally posted by cmptrwhiz
that's the euro way!
I think your own prejudice is showing just a bit here. You might want think about what you're saying before you go throwing stones at others for expressing similar ideas.
i think it's sad he is back-tracking and distancing himself from the guy just to pacify the euro. it's a tactic the euro has used for many years with the black panthers and malcolm x.
[edit on 3/21/08 by LLoyd45]
reply to post by Areal51
Do you really think that "the idea of being White or Black is uniquely an invention of the United States of America"?
I admit, I had to think about this one for awhile, but sorry, this is simply not true. Sorry, but even before white Europeans started sailing their ships around the world, in cultures around the world, having light skin was considered to be a trait of quality and still is today around most of the world. This has nothing to do with any invention of white people and especially not the U.S.. White is associated with daylight, goodness, and spirituality as the stars at night are white, and black is connect with the night, the dark, the unknown, and bad things. This has been the way people have looked at things for millennium. It just so happens that the whitest people on the planet also managed to develop large technological advantages at the right time in human development that enabled them to dominate the world as technology reached a point where global travel was achievable.
Rich people all over the world oppress the poor, not just whites, and this has been going on since long before whites began circumventing the world. A man whose ambitions knows no bounds does not care what the color of the person he is stepping on in his way to the top. If he must deal with a white man and a black man, he will turn the the man who can do him the most good, irregardless of his color. Racism isn't about race, and it never has been, it is just an easy excuse to hate someone, because it is easier to hate than it is to trust.
Five hundred years ago discrimination flourished around the world, the Europeans thought they were the greatest race on the planet, and the Spanish thought they were better than all other Europeans, and the English thought the same, as did the French, and everyone else. The Chinese thought they were better than the Japanese, and visa versa, and they both thought they were better than the Europeans even if the Europeans had superior technology, and all around the world everyone thought they were better than everyone else, and many do still today.
In addition to this, blacks in sub-sahara Africa, the darkest people on the planet were still in a very primitive state of civilization, living closest to white people, they were taken as slaves to the new world. What doesn't seem to be mentioned enough is that all people living in the rich tropical regions of the world such as sub-Sahara Africa, the Amazon Rain Forest, and the Islands of the Pacific all remained in primitive civilizations because the rich environment in which they lived did not force them to adapt advanced technology to survive harsh winters. The problem is that Black Americans still have the knowledge of this history in the back of their minds, that they were living in primitive civilizations before they were taken to be slaves, and that Africa to this day remains behind the rest of the world, and this is what many find had to accept. It has nothing to do with the attitudes of whites towards blacks. Obama never had to endure this type of racism, yet he was drawn to a Black minister who preached the kind of belief that whites are the ones who made blacks feel bad about themselves, and it is simply not true. Does this mean that blacks are inferior, of course not. Blacks have proven themselves over and over again.
It really tees me off that many black youths feel that they can not gain anything from education because they think that they can never succeed in academia, because the only thing stopping them from succeeding is the belief that they can not succeed in this area. It is too easy to blame whites for their problems, and to tell themselves that they have no chance. Anyone who preaches this nonsense is only hurting the black community in my opinion. They are only encouraging failure.
The idea that blacks are justified in blaming whites for feeling bad about themselves is not only wrong, but it is extremely counter productive, and only increases the odds that black people who feel this way will fail, or anyone else who feels that they can blame others for their own opinions of themselves and therefore their own failures. Do blacks have it harder, certainly in the past, but when life serves you lemons, make lemon aide. Look at what the Jewish people have accomplished after centuries of oppression in Europe. Do blacks today have it harder than people of other races, maybe, but honestly I don't think so.
Anyone who could listen to the rants of this preacher is living in the past, on a self pity that they should never entertain. The rich white man is out to get the average black man no more than he is out to get the average white man, or Asian man, or any other man. Greedy rich crooks come in all colors and flavors.
Do you really think that "the idea of being White or Black is uniquely an invention of the United States of America"?
I admit, I had to think about this one for awhile, but sorry, this is simply not true. Sorry, but even before white Europeans started sailing their ships around the world, in cultures around the world, having light skin was considered to be a trait of quality and still is today around most of the world. This has nothing to do with any invention of white people and especially not the U.S.. White is associated with daylight, goodness, and spirituality as the stars at night are white, and black is connect with the night, the dark, the unknown, and bad things. This has been the way people have looked at things for millennium. It just so happens that the whitest people on the planet also managed to develop large technological advantages at the right time in human development that enabled them to dominate the world as technology reached a point where global travel was achievable.
Rich people all over the world oppress the poor, not just whites, and this has been going on since long before whites began circumventing the world. A man whose ambitions knows no bounds does not care what the color of the person he is stepping on in his way to the top. If he must deal with a white man and a black man, he will turn the the man who can do him the most good, irregardless of his color. Racism isn't about race, and it never has been, it is just an easy excuse to hate someone, because it is easier to hate than it is to trust.
Five hundred years ago discrimination flourished around the world, the Europeans thought they were the greatest race on the planet, and the Spanish thought they were better than all other Europeans, and the English thought the same, as did the French, and everyone else. The Chinese thought they were better than the Japanese, and visa versa, and they both thought they were better than the Europeans even if the Europeans had superior technology, and all around the world everyone thought they were better than everyone else, and many do still today.
In addition to this, blacks in sub-sahara Africa, the darkest people on the planet were still in a very primitive state of civilization, living closest to white people, they were taken as slaves to the new world. What doesn't seem to be mentioned enough is that all people living in the rich tropical regions of the world such as sub-Sahara Africa, the Amazon Rain Forest, and the Islands of the Pacific all remained in primitive civilizations because the rich environment in which they lived did not force them to adapt advanced technology to survive harsh winters. The problem is that Black Americans still have the knowledge of this history in the back of their minds, that they were living in primitive civilizations before they were taken to be slaves, and that Africa to this day remains behind the rest of the world, and this is what many find had to accept. It has nothing to do with the attitudes of whites towards blacks. Obama never had to endure this type of racism, yet he was drawn to a Black minister who preached the kind of belief that whites are the ones who made blacks feel bad about themselves, and it is simply not true. Does this mean that blacks are inferior, of course not. Blacks have proven themselves over and over again.
It really tees me off that many black youths feel that they can not gain anything from education because they think that they can never succeed in academia, because the only thing stopping them from succeeding is the belief that they can not succeed in this area. It is too easy to blame whites for their problems, and to tell themselves that they have no chance. Anyone who preaches this nonsense is only hurting the black community in my opinion. They are only encouraging failure.
The idea that blacks are justified in blaming whites for feeling bad about themselves is not only wrong, but it is extremely counter productive, and only increases the odds that black people who feel this way will fail, or anyone else who feels that they can blame others for their own opinions of themselves and therefore their own failures. Do blacks have it harder, certainly in the past, but when life serves you lemons, make lemon aide. Look at what the Jewish people have accomplished after centuries of oppression in Europe. Do blacks today have it harder than people of other races, maybe, but honestly I don't think so.
Anyone who could listen to the rants of this preacher is living in the past, on a self pity that they should never entertain. The rich white man is out to get the average black man no more than he is out to get the average white man, or Asian man, or any other man. Greedy rich crooks come in all colors and flavors.
reply to post by poet1b
I referred to the race based legislative history of the United States. Maybe you overlooked that or didn't consider it important, but it is of paramount importance in coming to an understanding of Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright's remarks, the history of African-Americans, and policies based on race throughout the world. For which Apartheid South Africa would serve as a prime historical example. Start with the history of the US Constitution which is the oldest legislative document of its kind in the world. Once you have done that you will quickly come to understand how raced based law was exported to other parts of the world.
I referred to the race based legislative history of the United States. Maybe you overlooked that or didn't consider it important, but it is of paramount importance in coming to an understanding of Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright's remarks, the history of African-Americans, and policies based on race throughout the world. For which Apartheid South Africa would serve as a prime historical example. Start with the history of the US Constitution which is the oldest legislative document of its kind in the world. Once you have done that you will quickly come to understand how raced based law was exported to other parts of the world.
The following was published yesterday. It is very similar to my own
two-part post. Though, it goes into greater detail about the history of the US Constitution and other historical facts that serve to bring into
sharper relief the history that Pastor Wright refers to and the comments that he has made concerning them. As I tried to do, it takes Pastor
Wright's persona and his comments out of the sensationalist and biased media and places both in a more proper and neutral context in which both might
be better understood.
[continued in next post]
www.truthout.org...
The Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright and the Audacity of Truth
By Dr. Wilmer J. Leon III
t r u t h o u t | Perspective
Saturday 22 March 2008
Over the past week or so, mainstream media have turned much of their attention to the fiery sermons of the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright. Dr. Wright is pastor to Senator Barack Obama (D-Illinois) and his family. He was also, until recently, pastor of the Trinity United Church of Christ of Chicago.
Most of the discussion and commentary about Dr. Wright's sermons have come from a predominantly white media. The points of discussion have centered on what they consider to be the "vile, racist and un-American things" said by Dr. Wright. Very few, if any, of the discussions have focused on the historical basis and accuracy of what Dr. Wright actually said.
The major problem with the discussions is they have been largely one-sided. The media have used the imagery of Dr. Wright, clad in African garb, shouting in the cadence of an old-time fire and brimstone minister and playing to the camera as a scare tactic. Has this become the "Willie Hortonization" of Senator Barack Obama? The reporting and commentary on Dr. Wright's words have been presented from the perspective of people who either have no appreciation for the African-American historical experience or a personal agenda when it comes to presenting these issues.
Dr. Wright is under attack for saying such things as "... the government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three strikes law, and then wants us (African-Americans) to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no; not 'God Bless America,' God damn America ... for killing innocent people; God damn America for treating its citizens as less than human...." These are very strong words, delivered at what many are calling a possible turning point in American history with regard to America's willingness to elect an African-American candidate. While the mainstream media have found no merit in any of Dr. Wright's statements, let's examine their merit from a historical basis.
When people read the Constitution, the supreme law of the United States, they see the oldest governing constitution in the world. They see a great document that has articulated the precepts of life, liberty and happiness that all in this country try to follow. What is often overlooked are the parts of the Constitution that laid the foundation for hundreds of years of slavery and oppression for African-Americans; the constitutional framework for human beings to be treated as less than human. It's these sections of the Constitution that America has never truly atoned for and still refuses to make right.
Article I, Section 2 of the Constitution stated, "Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons." This was known as the Three-Fifths Compromise and laid the groundwork for African slaves brought into America as forced labor to be defined as non-persons.
Article I, Section 9 allowed the importation of slaves to continue in America for twenty-one years after ratification of the Constitution by declaring: "The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person." This section only outlawed the importation of slaves once the domestic stock of slaves could be replenished by natural birthrates and importation would no longer be needed; again, treating its citizens as less than human.
Article IV, Section 2 stated, "No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, But shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due." This was enforced by Congress on September 18, 1850, when the Fugitive Slave Act was passed, allowing Southern states to reclaim slaves that had escaped to the North.
The Three Fifths Compromise and the Fugitive Slave provisions were superseded by constitutional amendments only after their damage to African-Americans had been done and the benefit to America had been served.
It is very easy to wrap oneself in the history and glory that is America and forget that from 1619 to 1868 (249 years) African-Americans suffered under the brutality and oppression of government-supported chattel slavery. In 1857, as Dred Scott, a slave, petitioned the US Supreme Court for his freedom, Chief Justice Roger Taney wrote, "beings of an inferior order (African-Americans), and altogether unfit to associate with the white race, either in social or political relations, and so far inferior that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect."
Even after the 13th Amendment abolished slavery in 1865, the 14th Amendment granted their citizenship, and the 15th Amendment grated them the right to vote, from 1876 to 1965 (89 years) African-Americans continued to suffer under state-supported Jim Crow oppression in America. This was codified in 1896 by another Supreme Court decision, Plessy v. Ferguson, which upheld the constitutionality of racial segregation under the doctrine of separate but equal. These vestiges of slavery and oppression still plague many sectors of the African-American community, and the sense of white privilege they created continues to foster a false sense of white entitlement.
This is just the historical background for Dr. Wright's comments. During his lifetime he has dealt with segregated schools, separate and unequal education, and discrimination in housing, employment and lending. He has witnessed civil rights protesters beaten by the police, ravaged by dogs, brutalized by fire hoses and COINTELPRO. Since his birth in 1941, an estimated 40 African-Americans have been lynched in this country. He was 14 years old when Emmett Till was brutally murdered and 23 years old when James Chaney, Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner were killed. Americans continue to deal with racial profiling, driving while black, the disproportionate rate of incarceration of African-Americans, the suspension of habeas corpus, warrantless wiretapping and other constitutional violations.
[continued in next post]
[continued from previous post]
I couldn't have said it better.
www.truthout.org...
Regarding Dr. Wright's comments about drugs and AIDS, let's not forget the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiments. From 1932 to 1972, the US Public Health Service (PHS) conducted an experiment on 399 black men in the late stages of syphilis. These men, for the most part illiterate sharecroppers from one of the poorest counties in Alabama, were never told what disease they were suffering from or of its seriousness. In his May 16, 1997, apology, President Bill Clinton said:
"The United States government did something that was wrong - deeply, profoundly, morally wrong. It was an outrage to our commitment to integrity and equality for all our citizens ... clearly racist."
With this historical understanding, it is not too far-fetched to think that the US government could be involved in similar activity as it relates to AIDS.
What has been conspicuously absent from the discussions about Dr. Wright's comments in mainstream media is any analysis of the validity of his comments based upon his personal history and life experiences. It is very easy for white commentators such as Bill O'Reilly to dismiss his sermons as racist diatribes, since O'Reilly has no interest in trying to understand the plight of people of color in America.
Dr. Wright has also said, "We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is brought right back into our own front yard; America's chickens are coming home to roost...." Well, let's examine the record.
The Arms Exports Control Act prohibits the president from furnishing military aid to any country which engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights. In spite of all of the evidence supporting claims of the Israeli government's human rights abuses of the Palestinian people, for FY2005 the United States provided $2.22 billion in military aid. This aid to Israel has a dramatic effect on Israel's policies towards the Palestinians. It is the US funding that pays for the guns and ammunition, F-16 bombers and Apache helicopters that are used to carry out Israel's occupation of Palestinian land and people.
According to The Boston Globe, in 1984, just after Ronald Reagan's re-election, Bishop Desmond Tutu referred to the Reagan administration's support for the South African government as "Immoral, evil and totally un-Christian." Reagan ignored the rising number of Americans who were calling for American companies to stop doing business there. The president of so-called sunny optimism attempted to blind Americans with his policy of "constructive engagement" with the white minority regime in Pretoria. All constructive engagement did was give the white minority more time to mow down the black majority in the streets and keep dreamers of democracy, such as Nelson Mandela, behind bars.
History is replete with examples of the United States arranging to depose foreign leaders. In 1909, President Taft ordered the overthrow of Nicaraguan President Jose Santos Zelaya. According to Stephen Kinzer, "In Iran, Guatemala, South Vietnam and Chile, diplomats and intelligence agents replaced generals as the instruments of American intervention." More recent examples of US intervention would be the invasion of Panama and the illegal invasion of Iraq.
Some may take issue with the earlier statement, "... the government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three strikes law, ..." by asking, "is Rev. Wright accusing the US government of supplying drugs to the black community?" This story has been well-documented in the 1996 San Jose Mercury News expose entitled "Dark Alliance: The CIA Complicity in the Crack Epidemic."
I can understand people being uncomfortable with the comments made by the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright. White Americans have also been lied to, miseducated and desensitized about the plight of African-Americans. With the help of the social conservative agenda, many have developed a "deaf ear" when it comes to issues regarding race. The truth, especially an ugly truth that forces Americans to examine the precepts of America, "with liberty and justice for all," and compare them with the hypocrisy of the American reality can be troubling. For far too long, Americans have been lulled into a false sense of security. Americans have believed history as told by the oppressor and failed to understand the reality of the oppressed.
Dr. Wright is not un-American. He embodies what America was founded upon, the free exchange of ideas in the public space, speaking truth to power, challenging America to be the best that it can be. The Rev. Dr. Jeremiah Wright's views might not reconcile with many Americans' perceptions of America, but they must not be discarded as the ranting of an angry man. His statements were founded in the historical truths that African-Americans have and continue to live through.
I couldn't have said it better.
reply to post by Areal51
The U.S. constitution is the oldest document of its kind because the U.S. was the first government ever formed with the idea that all men are created equal, intending in giving rights to the common man. Maybe in the beginning those rights were only extend to white property owners, but even then this was a huge leap forward in human history, and if you don't realize how progressive the formation of the U.S. government was compared to all governments around the world. All other governments around the world looked upon the common man as inferior to the people who occupied the higher levels of control of government.
While the U.S. could certainly improve, we still have the best system around, and Wrights harsh criticism hardly paints a realistic picture of what kind of nation the U.S. is. Yeah, there are people who gain positions in our government that abuse their power, and when these things are brought to light, they are harshly criticized by the public. Yes, dark deeds do happen in this country, but it is still the best place in the world to live, and that is because of the tremendous job our founding fathers did when they wrote our constitution, and the fact of the matter is that no other nation has ever done better.
The U.S. government also experimented with many more people, of all races, exposing them to nuclear fallout and mind control experiments with powerful drugs, and you will find all other nations have also engaged in barbaric practices such as this.
Talk about a biased media, Bill Clinton's comments about Jesse Jackson had no racial tinge at all, they were basic facts about the support another black candidate received in S. Carolina in an earlier primary, but the white controlled media was quick to call him a racist, while many in the same media are willing to down play Wrights comments and give Obama a quick pass ignoring his long and close relationship with the Rev. Wright.
These things are not about black and white America, they are about fooling the masses, and Wright is an agent of those who seek power and control, and not for the common man, and his stance against the middle class is proof of this.
If you want to talk about S Africa, then you should look at the rate at which whites in that country are being murdered since Apartheid. Are you going to claim that this isn't racism. There is no reason why whites should not be able to live in Africa, especially when they contribute to the economy, but the current conditions in Africa are driving whites away. Is that the direction where the world is heading, we will all put up fences and completely absorb ourselves with the racial stereotypes?
The U.S. constitution is the oldest document of its kind because the U.S. was the first government ever formed with the idea that all men are created equal, intending in giving rights to the common man. Maybe in the beginning those rights were only extend to white property owners, but even then this was a huge leap forward in human history, and if you don't realize how progressive the formation of the U.S. government was compared to all governments around the world. All other governments around the world looked upon the common man as inferior to the people who occupied the higher levels of control of government.
While the U.S. could certainly improve, we still have the best system around, and Wrights harsh criticism hardly paints a realistic picture of what kind of nation the U.S. is. Yeah, there are people who gain positions in our government that abuse their power, and when these things are brought to light, they are harshly criticized by the public. Yes, dark deeds do happen in this country, but it is still the best place in the world to live, and that is because of the tremendous job our founding fathers did when they wrote our constitution, and the fact of the matter is that no other nation has ever done better.
The U.S. government also experimented with many more people, of all races, exposing them to nuclear fallout and mind control experiments with powerful drugs, and you will find all other nations have also engaged in barbaric practices such as this.
Talk about a biased media, Bill Clinton's comments about Jesse Jackson had no racial tinge at all, they were basic facts about the support another black candidate received in S. Carolina in an earlier primary, but the white controlled media was quick to call him a racist, while many in the same media are willing to down play Wrights comments and give Obama a quick pass ignoring his long and close relationship with the Rev. Wright.
These things are not about black and white America, they are about fooling the masses, and Wright is an agent of those who seek power and control, and not for the common man, and his stance against the middle class is proof of this.
If you want to talk about S Africa, then you should look at the rate at which whites in that country are being murdered since Apartheid. Are you going to claim that this isn't racism. There is no reason why whites should not be able to live in Africa, especially when they contribute to the economy, but the current conditions in Africa are driving whites away. Is that the direction where the world is heading, we will all put up fences and completely absorb ourselves with the racial stereotypes?
reply to post by poet1b
Your basic argument is, "Things aren't all that bad and have never been." Which is completely false. Until you look for yourself at the legacy of US race based legislation, you will then continue to view things as you do. You have to look for yourself. Nothing that I can say or the article that I posted can provide for you the full scope of what was intended to be the greatest country of them all, but which instead features some of the worst aspects that Man has ever invented.
What provides hope for the country is the inherent idea that the country represents the best for all of mankind. Still it is only an idea. An idea expressed in part by the US Constitution and Bill of Rights. The rest within some of its people. It takes the people to assume full responsibility for what has happened in the past, what happened today, and what is to happen tomorrow with regards to us all. Anything short of that and we will continue to witness what we have witnessed so far. Which is a country that is only partly right in its laws and the minds of its citizens.
A system is only as strong as its weakest component.
You have to get off of the defensive and humble yourself to the facts and truth of history. Your take of the racial situation in the US and South Africa is worse than oversimplified. It is uninformed and not understood. This is clear from your remarks which make no mention of race based laws, who drafted and enacted those laws, and the long-tailed consequences of enforcing those laws. The racial situation in the US, South Africa, many countries throughout Africa such as Darfur, Congo, and Rwanda are the result of European colonialism and race based legislation. You have to understand this if you want to understand the apparent consequences of the enforcement of those laws.
You refer to blame instead of root cause. For you and others lacking in understanding, Pastor Wright blames. And so the reaction is to blame Pastor Wright. To one who understands Pastor Wright in the proper context, Pastor Wright addresses. Pastor Wright is not the root cause, he is representative of the consequences of a system that conspired against him and his people. (Same goes for the consequences that have manifested in South Africa, Darfur, Congo, and Rwanda.)
You speak of racial stereotypes but you do not speak of the cause of racial stereotypes. Who built those fences that you speak of? What fabric makes up their construction? The fences won't be torn down and stay down until full responsibility has been taken for their construction. Again, it's not about blame. It's about taking full responsibility. Sidestepping history and responsibility is not going to be effective any more than aspirin is for the common cold.
[edit on 23-3-2008 by Areal51]
Your basic argument is, "Things aren't all that bad and have never been." Which is completely false. Until you look for yourself at the legacy of US race based legislation, you will then continue to view things as you do. You have to look for yourself. Nothing that I can say or the article that I posted can provide for you the full scope of what was intended to be the greatest country of them all, but which instead features some of the worst aspects that Man has ever invented.
What provides hope for the country is the inherent idea that the country represents the best for all of mankind. Still it is only an idea. An idea expressed in part by the US Constitution and Bill of Rights. The rest within some of its people. It takes the people to assume full responsibility for what has happened in the past, what happened today, and what is to happen tomorrow with regards to us all. Anything short of that and we will continue to witness what we have witnessed so far. Which is a country that is only partly right in its laws and the minds of its citizens.
A system is only as strong as its weakest component.
You have to get off of the defensive and humble yourself to the facts and truth of history. Your take of the racial situation in the US and South Africa is worse than oversimplified. It is uninformed and not understood. This is clear from your remarks which make no mention of race based laws, who drafted and enacted those laws, and the long-tailed consequences of enforcing those laws. The racial situation in the US, South Africa, many countries throughout Africa such as Darfur, Congo, and Rwanda are the result of European colonialism and race based legislation. You have to understand this if you want to understand the apparent consequences of the enforcement of those laws.
You refer to blame instead of root cause. For you and others lacking in understanding, Pastor Wright blames. And so the reaction is to blame Pastor Wright. To one who understands Pastor Wright in the proper context, Pastor Wright addresses. Pastor Wright is not the root cause, he is representative of the consequences of a system that conspired against him and his people. (Same goes for the consequences that have manifested in South Africa, Darfur, Congo, and Rwanda.)
You speak of racial stereotypes but you do not speak of the cause of racial stereotypes. Who built those fences that you speak of? What fabric makes up their construction? The fences won't be torn down and stay down until full responsibility has been taken for their construction. Again, it's not about blame. It's about taking full responsibility. Sidestepping history and responsibility is not going to be effective any more than aspirin is for the common cold.
[edit on 23-3-2008 by Areal51]
reply to post by Areal51
When I read you comments all I see is a view point based completely on a bias that distorts the reality of U.S. history. As I stated, abuse does occur in the U.S., but is worse virtually throughout the rest of the world.
You talk about "the legacy of US race based legislation", please point out to me the federal legislation that you are talking about.
You continue to ignore the history of prejudice and racism throughout the world. Just because some whites who migrated to Africa practiced racism and abused Africans does not mean that all whites who migrated to Africa were racist abusers, and the widespread murder of whites who remain in Africa because some whites in Africa abused their power is not justified. In addition, the problems of Africa are far more complex that you seem to want to admit. Once again, it is just too easy to blame all the problems of Africa on the white colonialists. There are bad people in positions of power in all races, and they do tend to work together to obtain their selfish desires.
In all these arguments against the U.S., all whites are blamed for the actions of a few, and that is racism.
When I read you comments all I see is a view point based completely on a bias that distorts the reality of U.S. history. As I stated, abuse does occur in the U.S., but is worse virtually throughout the rest of the world.
You talk about "the legacy of US race based legislation", please point out to me the federal legislation that you are talking about.
You continue to ignore the history of prejudice and racism throughout the world. Just because some whites who migrated to Africa practiced racism and abused Africans does not mean that all whites who migrated to Africa were racist abusers, and the widespread murder of whites who remain in Africa because some whites in Africa abused their power is not justified. In addition, the problems of Africa are far more complex that you seem to want to admit. Once again, it is just too easy to blame all the problems of Africa on the white colonialists. There are bad people in positions of power in all races, and they do tend to work together to obtain their selfish desires.
In all these arguments against the U.S., all whites are blamed for the actions of a few, and that is racism.
reply to post by poet1b
Like I said, do your homework and you will understand what a person means relative to the appropriate context. Every remark you have made is out of context. I tell you without rancor that it is obvious that your understanding of the issues is severely limited. There are numerous references and sources that I have provided in my previous responses. The Op-Ed article that I posted by Dr. Wilmer J. Leon III provides increased detail of what I stated in my own posts, as well as providing a generous head start and foundation of researching race based legislation throughout US history. Dr. Leon has also addressed every point that Pastor Wright made without the need to keep on the topic of this thread, and he provided sources for each of those. There are, in fact, enough sources supplied for you to be kept busy for several, if not many, years. But even a cursory examination of those sources should substantially increase your understanding.
As for understanding certain situations in Africa. You want to talk Africa and you haven't come to grips with the racial situation in the US yet? If you can come to grips with what has happened in the US, you will certainly find the situations in Africa that you refer to easier to comprehend. It is not about what is happening, it is about why those things are happening.
It is not enough for one to say elite this and elite that. That doesn't elucidate or solve anything, and it certainly doesn't explain certain apparent undesirable consequences. Consequences, understand what consequences mean. Identify them and seek to understand them.
One cannot just say "Think Different." and hope that things will get better. How would anybody think differently about a situation if they have do not have a full understanding of the situation?
Yet again, you say all Whites are being blamed. This issue is an expression of guilt and ignorance. Just the mention of "White oppression" and many Whites feel themselves to be included because they happen to be White. The guilt comes from being superficially associated and genetically related to the "White oppressors". Yet if they understood what the term "White oppression" meant, they would understand that "White oppression" is not an all inclusive term, it is an exclusive term. It's precisely because you and others in this thread do not have a full or reasonable understanding of "White oppression" that you erroneously take offense and condemn Pastor Wright. When Pastor Wright says "White" he is referring to "White oppression" and not all "White people". I've covered this at least a couple of times already, yet only a few seem to have heard and understood.
Another thing, just because you say all Whites are being blamed does not mean that all Whites feel as if they are being blamed. Obama's support base is a clear example of this. His campaign staff is a clear example of this. Surely there are some White people who have responded in this thread who understand where Pastor Wright is coming from and what he means. So, honestly, I don't know why you keep harping on that.
A clear path to which you can gain a reasonable understanding of the issues has been provided, yet you remain fixed on blame. If you want to ignore the facts, that's your prerogative. Addressing facts is not the same thing as casting blame. That's an important distinction that you could also benefit from understanding.
[edit on 23-3-2008 by Areal51]
Like I said, do your homework and you will understand what a person means relative to the appropriate context. Every remark you have made is out of context. I tell you without rancor that it is obvious that your understanding of the issues is severely limited. There are numerous references and sources that I have provided in my previous responses. The Op-Ed article that I posted by Dr. Wilmer J. Leon III provides increased detail of what I stated in my own posts, as well as providing a generous head start and foundation of researching race based legislation throughout US history. Dr. Leon has also addressed every point that Pastor Wright made without the need to keep on the topic of this thread, and he provided sources for each of those. There are, in fact, enough sources supplied for you to be kept busy for several, if not many, years. But even a cursory examination of those sources should substantially increase your understanding.
As for understanding certain situations in Africa. You want to talk Africa and you haven't come to grips with the racial situation in the US yet? If you can come to grips with what has happened in the US, you will certainly find the situations in Africa that you refer to easier to comprehend. It is not about what is happening, it is about why those things are happening.
It is not enough for one to say elite this and elite that. That doesn't elucidate or solve anything, and it certainly doesn't explain certain apparent undesirable consequences. Consequences, understand what consequences mean. Identify them and seek to understand them.
One cannot just say "Think Different." and hope that things will get better. How would anybody think differently about a situation if they have do not have a full understanding of the situation?
Yet again, you say all Whites are being blamed. This issue is an expression of guilt and ignorance. Just the mention of "White oppression" and many Whites feel themselves to be included because they happen to be White. The guilt comes from being superficially associated and genetically related to the "White oppressors". Yet if they understood what the term "White oppression" meant, they would understand that "White oppression" is not an all inclusive term, it is an exclusive term. It's precisely because you and others in this thread do not have a full or reasonable understanding of "White oppression" that you erroneously take offense and condemn Pastor Wright. When Pastor Wright says "White" he is referring to "White oppression" and not all "White people". I've covered this at least a couple of times already, yet only a few seem to have heard and understood.
Another thing, just because you say all Whites are being blamed does not mean that all Whites feel as if they are being blamed. Obama's support base is a clear example of this. His campaign staff is a clear example of this. Surely there are some White people who have responded in this thread who understand where Pastor Wright is coming from and what he means. So, honestly, I don't know why you keep harping on that.
A clear path to which you can gain a reasonable understanding of the issues has been provided, yet you remain fixed on blame. If you want to ignore the facts, that's your prerogative. Addressing facts is not the same thing as casting blame. That's an important distinction that you could also benefit from understanding.
[edit on 23-3-2008 by Areal51]
reply to post by Areal51
Yes, you are right, I am trying to push this discussion outside of the narrow context in which you insist this discussion must be made. I have done my homework, and heard most of the reasoning on which your points have been made. You must look at the whole picture to get an accurate understanding of what has shaped race and cultural divisions in world history.
The struggle for the rights of all people go beyond race or culture, it is not a black and white problem, it is not a race problem, and trying to discuss this struggle in the narrow confines of black and white is a waste of time. When you are ready to look at the whole picture, then you can start to talk about understanding. This is the problem with the academic world, they must narrow the focus in order to give legitimacy to their opinions, and that simply does not work. This is why the academics are always struggling to keep up with the debate.
Yes, you are right, I am trying to push this discussion outside of the narrow context in which you insist this discussion must be made. I have done my homework, and heard most of the reasoning on which your points have been made. You must look at the whole picture to get an accurate understanding of what has shaped race and cultural divisions in world history.
The struggle for the rights of all people go beyond race or culture, it is not a black and white problem, it is not a race problem, and trying to discuss this struggle in the narrow confines of black and white is a waste of time. When you are ready to look at the whole picture, then you can start to talk about understanding. This is the problem with the academic world, they must narrow the focus in order to give legitimacy to their opinions, and that simply does not work. This is why the academics are always struggling to keep up with the debate.
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