How would a war with China be fought?, page 1

How would a war with China be fought?, page 1

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 3 times

Topic started on 13-3-2008 @ 08:13 AM by truttseeker

Okay first and foremost this thread is completely nixing the possibilities of nuclear weapons being used. My father and I were talking yesterday on the way home from work. We started to talk about how a war on China would be waged. You know, tactics, weapons, where different things would be. I think the most important thing would be the naval aspect seeing that the Taiwan Strait would probably be the place to control. A little offshoot of this idea is would the US be stupid enough to put a CBG into the strait itself or would they kind of pinch off the ends with huge amounts of force.

Seeing as there are people on this board with way more experience and knowlege about this, I figured this would be the best place to see what kind of ideas would come up.

reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 09:05 AM by Dookie Master

B.H.L. Hart wrote a book entitled "Strategy" in which he explains the best manner of warfare is the indirect attack or line of least expectation, rather than the direct attack. He outlines battles and grand strategy throughout history that has benefitted from this method. Some of the greatest leaders in history haved used this method. So, in responce to your query, the straits are too well known as an attack point to be the decisive battlezone. I do not think a carrier battle group would operate safely in the straits, to narrow. In my opinion the best attack point would be in the northeast of china nearer to different opposing parties (N. Korea, Russia) and to long allies (Japan). Two reasons for being nearer to N. Korea, the enemy of my enemy is my friend and putting all of the enemies in one front if N. Korea went the other way (becoming allied with china). Also, it opens the way for a feint in the straits to take the attention of the Chinese miltary south.
Good Question. Flag.

reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 09:21 AM by Harlequin

The only ground bases in the area (guam and japan) would be closed down if they used them , and japan would be loathed to be drawn into an american war with china , south korea doesn`t have any US airbases there only army , and the US left taiwan in 1979 , even closing the embassy

Taiwan Relations Act
Public Law 96-8 96th Congress

An Act:

To help maintain peace, security, and stability in the Western Pacific and to promote the foreign policy of the United States by authorizing the continuation of commercial, cultural, and other relations between the people of the United States and the people on Taiwan, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SHORT TITLE

SECTION 1. This Act may be cited as the "Taiwan Relations Act".

FINDINGS AND DECLARATION OF POLICY

SEC. 2. (a) The President- having terminated governmental relations between the United States and the governing authorities on Taiwan recognized by the United States as the Republic of China prior to January 1, 1979, the Congress finds that the enactment of this Act is necessary--

usinfo.state.gov...

so , like in WW2 any action would be fought off carriers with long range bomber support.

china have the home advantage of having ground bases everywhere and alot of ballistic missiles and ground launched seas skimming missiles - doesn`t matter if there 20 years old and sub sonic when you shoot 300 of them at a carrier group.

[edit on 13/3/08 by Harlequin]

reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 09:24 AM by Acidtastic

bunkers would be made out of paper and bulsar wood. Enemies would respectfuly bow to each other before combat and there would definaly be dancing dragons

reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 09:32 AM by Dookie Master

reply to post by Harlequin

Kunsan AFB Is in S. Korea and Active with the 8th fighter wing last I checked www.globalsecurity.org...
No Doubt it would be a priority target.

reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 09:52 AM by guppy

Check out China's Preemptive Strike Strategy circling in their military

a.k.a. Dragon's Lair

www.navytimes.com...
This is China's anti-U.S. sucker punch strategy.
It's designed to strike America's military suddenly, stunning and stalling the Air Force more than any other service. In a script written by Chinese military officers and defense analysts, a bruised U.S. military, beholden to a sheepish American public, puts up a small fight before slinking off to avoid full-on war.

I've been watching China since the mid-90s and they have been busy preparing to for a long time. China plans long term. Don't be surprise when it happens.

reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 09:54 AM by Harlequin

reply to post by Dookie Master

nice one - thumbs up sir and a star for you - and yes even if they based rapots there it would be closed down hard , don`t need a nuke with 200 SRBM and MRBM`s coming at you

reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 10:05 AM by Dookie Master

Awesome, I love to find things like this. The internet is an awesome tool for these types of things. I instantly went and searched " US Preemptive strike plans" I was amazed at what they actually were telling the public, and these were some sinister plans. Man what are they keeping secret? Guppy, what search phrase did you put in to find the chinese plans?

[edit on 13-3-2008 by Dookie Master]

[edit on 13-3-2008 by Dookie Master]

reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 10:22 AM by ST SIR 86

Anybody think about the Aleutians there a part of the USA. Back in ww2
the Aleutians were considered the back door to japan after the USA Marines retook Attu and Kiska islands back from japan.....and we know how close japan is to China. Yes America got invaded in WW2 by japan.

reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 11:15 AM by truttseeker

reply to post by guppy

That would definitely wreak havoc, but the first thing is no nukes. Everyone here knows that any nuclear strike on on area, aimed at US forces, is recipe for destruction of the world. Hence why nukes are left out of discussion. Honestly I dont think there would be a ground invasion into China. The only reason I focus on the straits is because if China launches a war, then they're going to want to take Taiwan, which the strait is the only direct route. Also China has blown up one satellite, which they knew its course. Im sure that there are satellites for the US military that they wouldnt be able to hit, leaving at least some communications capabilities. I think the smartest thing for the US to do would be to have a couple CBG's maybe behind Taiwan to defend them, that way they can still launch tomahawk attacks and aircraft without threat from the huge amount of missiles that litter the chinese coastline.

And to the person who said "a sheepish american public", I wouldnt go that far. If we are attacked you can be sure that we wouldnt be "sheepish" were a very proud and arrogant country and if you mess with us then it is a trend for bad things to happen, ala pearl harbor and 9/11. Its only when we go to places and see our men and women getting killed in a war that we really have no business to be in that we get sheepish and start telling them to come back home.

reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 11:26 AM by jojoKnowsBest

The Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), released this huge PDF under the FOIA, it’s all the info about the Chinese army. I don’t know how up to date it is but basically this is what they would give to GIs to study up before we would go to war with China, its a huge file. They also have a handbook for N. Korea. They are both good reads if you’re into this type of stuff.

If we went to war with China Russia, N. Korea, and maybe even Iran would jump into the fun. I think one of the first things we would do would bomb all Chinas oil interests in Iran.

DIA FOIA PAGE

[edit on 13-3-2008 by jojoKnowsBest]

reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 12:13 PM by Harlequin

reply to post by jojoKnowsBest

them iran would block the straits and the US oil supplies within a month or 2 dries up; you do not open a 2 front war , look at hitler and napoleon, and look at bush with the 2 front war in iraq and afghanistan - they are lose-lose situations.

reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 12:20 PM by hinky

Originally posted by jojoKnowsBest

If we went to war with China Russia, N. Korea, and maybe even Iran would jump into the fun. I think one of the first things we would do would bomb all Chinas oil interests in Iran.

They would be blockaded at the minimum. China has some decent subs. These would have to be addressed. A blockade would destroy China's economy and they have no oil reserve in the manner of the US.

Take out their nuclear capability, they are a strong regional power.

It would be interesting....

reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 12:29 PM by Dookie Master

That is 100% true! Never open a two front war if at all possible. Also, as the op said, I don't see a traditional army being able to invade. It would be very dangerous to get too far inland in china/asia the supply train would be too long and the ability for the enemy forces to out flank would be tremendous and you would end up in a situation like the French being cut off in vietnam (not a poke at France!) a similar situation happened as well to the Americans less than a decade later in nearly the same geographic location. Also lets not forget our Hollywood knowledge "Never get involved in a land war in Asia" (The Princess Bride)

. Seriously, this senario always in my mind ends up with some sort of tactical nuclear exchange (think complete armies wiped out, not cities), too many troops, too much space, too many militaristic nations involved. I do understand the question though, conventional war against China. God Help me I love these topics.
Dookie

[edit on 13-3-2008 by Dookie Master]

reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 01:06 PM by truttseeker

It think the US navy-wise has enough force and projection to block the straits of hormuz for iran. The question is do we have the supplies for those forces. The US operates 12 CBG's which is definitely enough to wage a two front war. The only problem is fueling the aircraft without having our supply lines wiped out. As said before thats a lot of ground to cover and not have our stuff blown up.

What kind of allies would the US be looking at if they were attacked first. So far we've gone on the assumption that its the Chinese attacking pre-emptively to stymie a US response to them retaking Taiwan. If that were the case would countries like Russia get involved? Would we have the British navy and the rest of Europe behind us?

reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 01:35 PM by Dookie Master

Other nations in the area that have had land disputes with china might come in on "our" side (i.e. India, Russia and, yes, maybe even Vietnam). I am not saying that these countries would be direct allies, but more of opportunist allies, because think as much as we are thinking about China in the U.S., what about her neighbors thinking? I am sure alot of nations are thinking about taking China down a peg before they become too powerful or at least check the amazing growth posted for that nation. I am sure if they continue their growth they will have to expand into other resource bases. Which means danger for neighbors. As for N. Korea; I remember reading a journal in college about trying to predict what an aggressive dictator (Read Kim Il) may do based on the action of other like despots and the conclusion was they have never follwed any set thought pattern once a general direction was determined. This is like Hitler giving the no retreat order on the eastern front, some historians believe Germany could have negotiated a seperate peace based on the original anti-aggression pact.

[edit on 13-3-2008 by Dookie Master]

[edit on 13-3-2008 by Dookie Master]

reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 07:22 PM by maestro46

Well how realistic would an invasion of the Chinese mainland be in the first place? I mean they could literaly throw people at you. With all respect to quality over quantity fighting something like 20 million people on THEIR land is a scary thought. If the Chinese execute their plan and achieve most of it's goals it really does seem like the US would have to pull back a bit to regroup. There is one big miscalculation in their plan however, and its the exact same one that the Japanese made with Pearl Harbor - they think that the US public is going to be terrified of the loses and back off. It's true that the US public protested Vietnam, is protesting Iraq, Somalia too, but that's because this is a conflict the US was/is getting into and the public saw/sees little need for it. If China was to attack the US with an all out strike that would inflict large casualties for America they will suceed in doing nothing but pissing all of the US off big time. Then I would feel really sorry for China.

Regards,
Maestro

reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 11:23 PM by jojoKnowsBest

Originally posted by Harlequin
reply to post by jojoKnowsBest

them iran would block the straits and the US oil supplies within a month or 2 dries up; you do not open a 2 front war , look at hitler and napoleon, and look at bush with the 2 front war in iraq and afghanistan - they are lose-lose situations.

I tried barking up this tree in the weaponry forum. I had a thread about some new fast attack craft that Iran bought from China. All the military experts came out of the woodwork and basically said that Iran's Navy is hopelessly inferior to ours. They may cause some problems for us but it wouldn’t take much to obliterate Iran's Navy, which we pretty much did 20 years ago during the Tanker War.

China sold Iran 10 Thondar-class Fast Attack Craft which can be equipped with C-802 missiles

By WestPoint23

The Iranians pose more of a threat to international shipping and the global economy as they could very easily disrupt the flow of transport and commerce in the stright and even put a stop to it for a brief period of time. As far as the US military is concerned, our capability in the region is far to great for Iran to do anything but be a nuisance. I'm not saying there wont be any casualties or damage but nothing too sensational or anything we can't absorb. Iran's navy and military however would be left a shadow of their former self.

See "Operation Praying Mantis". The Iranians neither have the numbers nor technological capability to compete with the US in conventional warfare, whether it's in the Straight of Hormuz or not. Carriers are very useful instruments of war as nothing can project and bring that kind of firepower to any spot in the world. As for these "experts", we'll see, a carrier in the Gulf and on in the Arabian Sea would be more than adequate.

Westpoint23, I can bet was in the Navy and he knows a lot about it.

reply posted on 14-3-2008 @ 12:59 AM by WestPoint23

Originally posted by jojoKnowsBest
Westpoint23, I can bet was in the Navy and he knows a lot about it. [/
quote]

I have not been in the Navy.

My strategy when dealing with the Chinese would go something like this;

Forget any sort of invasion, target their long range force projection capabilities/assets, use our 'superior' forces to shut down their supply lanes via sea and air, attack Chinese mainland. Target civilian and military key industrial and economic sites and gradually reduce their ability to function as a nation while simultaneously destroying their largely regional forces and land based assets. China cannot attack the CONUS in the same conventional matter nor can they project enough power beyond the first island chain to be a real threat to our supply lines and or forces.

reply posted on 14-3-2008 @ 02:42 AM by TXMACHINEGUNDLR

It would be a quick war. Our NAVY would destroy PRC NAVY in a matter of months. Most Chinese ports and oil would be in flames, and that big pretty new dam would have a hell of a hole in it. Most industry in China would get nailed as well......But if you want the truth........Nukes would be used by the USA. No doubt in my mind. That is what makes China play nice with us.

BUT.........I really dont ever see the US and China in a direct conflict. China invades Taiwan and it will bring down the wrath of the NATO and probably Russia. Remember that Russia and China dont exactly like each other. If they invade Taiwan then China will destroy itself. They are way too smart to try that. To hit us in the USA would be instant destruction for China. Vapooorized

[edit on 14-3-2008 by TXMACHINEGUNDLR]

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