My daughter forced to be "pro-lifer"

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If it was my daughter (not that I'll ever have kids,being a poofter) but if it was,I'd tell her to take the 0 if she was against doing it. A more valueble lesson can be learnt here. Standing up for what you believe in,and sticking to your guns when you think you're right. Cos you've got to learn to stand by your convictions sometime.

End of the day,you're da mumma. What you say,goes.

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Mod Edit: Please see ABOUT ATS: Vulgarity and The Automatic ATS Censors. Thank you - Jak

[edit on 13/3/08 by JAK]

reply to post by wrathchild

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Abso-freaking-lutely. The "pro-life" movement is not about stopping abortion. The pro-life movement is about punishing women. Pro-life groups oppose contraception, they oppose sex education - both things that could reduce abortion. They do not advocate the man in the equation being legally beholden to help support the child - all the onus falls on the mother. They do not provide adoption services for those mothers who do keep the pregnancy but are unable to keep the child. These groups spew rhetoric that portrays pregnancy as a punishment from god for immoral behavior. They call themselves "pro-life" but only care about life from fertilization to the head breeching the birth canal.

Yes, feel absolutely free to be anti-abortion and also anti-pro-life.

Yeah, she could stand up for what she believed in, or her dad could, but at the end of the day, is it worth the hassle? Our whole society is full of examples like this. Wait till she starts working...

Remember the girl's father is asking what he can do. If you think he should make an issue out of it, perhaps you could do some research and tell him what his actual rights are.

Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice is yet another false dichotomy thrust upon the unsuspecting populace.

Many have correctly pointed out that you can easily be anti-pro-life AND anti-abortion....


...because you dont fall for the false dichotomy.

I would probably make a huge issue out of this with the school board, but when all is said and done, my daughter would suffer the most because of all the stress and controversy. Not worth it. It's my fight not her's.

She's got her head screwed on pretty good, and understands the issues.

I am totally against abortion, because it is generally a woeful avoidance of responsibility for people who were careless (if a rape victim then it is perhaps understandable and even necessary) and a baby misses out on the chance of experiencing life because of it. However I came to this decision myself and I wouldn't try and force it on someone else. We are humans and we have our own choices to make and I for one would have been thoroughly pissed off if they tried to force this kind of stuff on me at school.

Educate people properly about the issues and let them make their own decisions, it is them that will have to deal with their conscience later, not the teacher.

reply to post by Skyfloating

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Sorry I missed this before I posted. Very good point, much like you can be a vegetarian and against peta and crazed animal activists.

Not bothering to read everything, just had a comment.

The Pro life movement is, to me, all about telling other people how they should live their lives.

Being morally against abortion is a personal choice and doesn't have to affect anyone else(it amounts to being pro choice). Being pro-choice also affects no one because you just leave the decision up to free-willed human beings.

Pro-lifers want to decide for everyone how society should view the issue as a whole. They want for society to rule that abortion is morally wrong, even a crime. So without my getting into a religious, moral, or otherwise debate: yes you can be anti-abortion and pro-choice.

On the topic at hand, I've always felt it wrong for school systems to push any kind of beliefs on children. Morals and beliefs are for parents to instill in their kids if they choose. It is a teacher's responsibility to to ensure they do not abuse their position by contaminating the school's with their views.

You're upset because the school is teaching about pro-life and you support pro-life? Couldn't imagine what kind of rant you would be posting if they were teaching pro-abortion. I won this award my senior year for Spanish, and my Spanish teacher gave this funny speech about how when I started the class I was a Republican, but now I had switched to being a Democrat (which everyone in my school knows I'm a huge Republican still). So everyone got a good laugh about it. A disgruntled parent called the school and complained about this!! How ridiculous is that? As if people must concern themselves with such petty issues. I just think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Live and let live for Christ's sake, there are far more important issues at hand.

reply to post by wrathchild

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Don't underestimate the power parents can have on their children over their beliefs. My parents aren't religious at all, yet they sent my brother, my sister and I to a very religious school where we learnt about the bible on a daily basis, yet neither my siblings nor I are religious today. (They sent us to that school in the first place because the facilities and teachers were really above par compared to the public schools around our area)

My parents always maintained that our beliefs were our own personal choice and we shouldn't let anyone, including the schools or themselves, make the choice for us, we needed to decide for ourselves. So I'm not really sure if it was the fact that our parents weren't religious that made the 3 of us not religious, but I would think it was a big part of it.

Plus, look at that insane lady over in America that crashes US Soldiers' funerals with her family holding signs like, "God Hates Fags" and various other offensive terms. Didn't her father start that ridiculous cult? And aren't her children now following her? It could ONLY be the parents that influenced the children to do that, because school, society, common sense and pure human decency tell you that it would be the wrong thing to do.

As for the abortion issue, I agree with what a previous poster said. Let her do the project but also let her know that there are 2 sides to the story and that she has to make up her own mind. If she needs to talk about it she will. Though hopefully with an open-minded individual like yourself rather than the biased school.

So what, she had to make a poster.

Thats hardly being forced to be a pro-lifer.

Just tell her its playing devils advocate, and looking at a topic you probably discussed with her on the opposite perspective.

a point and counterpoint, if you will.

If I wasn't so lazy I would look into Canada's public education. If the only choices of a public education in Canada is Catholic or Protestant then I will have some fun bringing that up in my Constitutional law class. I was under the impression that Canada was liberal as hell.
If those two options are your only, then have your daughter go to the Protestant school. In the U.S. of course you would be a lawyer's dream but apparently it is freakishly different as far as public schools go.
I am still very sceptical about this situation because you would think it might come up at some point in law school but it sure doesn't mean it couldn't. What the hell does your Jewish and etc... people do for public education?

Alright, let me give this a shot, me being 21 years of age, i am somewhat young, and i remember clearly the kind of things i was doing when i was in 8th grade . . . a lot of which i shouldn't be proud of, but am anyways. . . but i went to a regular public school. . (that sucks you only have the choice of catholic and protestant, sucks to be you) but my parents always told me their point of views according to the schools point of views, and let me decide for myself, if you explain to your child that hey, look here, this is another way to look at it, then they can decide for themselves, thats what growin' up is about, learning for yourself. . . a lot of us make some pretty bad decisions, and its up to the parents, to try to not screw your kid up to bad. . . so, your call man. . . let your kid decide for yourself. . .

reply to post by Res Ipsa

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It might just be the area he is in.

Its odd to think that a country as well renown to being secular has only two religious dogmatic school systems.

I guess theres a hole in canada after all lol.

Effectively, that means they should not be allowed to teach ANY moral issues. (Only, NOT teaching morals - by example or by word - is impossible.)

"Morals" is by definition something that has to be taught - a framework of values that changes from society to society. And there is ALWAYS going to be somebody who'll oppose a given issue, even those that you might find very commendable.

Then what?


P.S. Why is this in the "mysterious" forum?







[edit on 13-3-2008 by Vanitas]

Christianity is all about brainwashing children, basically installing the FEAR into them at a very young age. Most born agains cannot possibly hold the same amount of faith as one brainwashed since their earliest memories, thus the emphasis on getting to kids when they are at their most impressionable.

As they grow the children will need to deal with all the guilt that stems from the lies hardwired into their brains, especially when the NATURAL sexual urges become apparent and they start to fret about going to hell because of masturbation and "dirty" thoughts about the opposite sex. It saddens me the damage that the cult of jesus christ does to children, saddens me even more that my children have to be a part of the nonsense due the control my ex-wife has over them (she too was brainwashed from an early age).

Oh well... what can you do I guess...

reply to post by Ketzer22

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I can't say that I would want a school teaching my children to be pro-choice, environmentalist social populists - even though I agree with those positions. The task of a school is to educate children, not opinionate them. I can teach my kids about faith and political positions and a moral compass just fine, thank you.

It's not even a "I want to rule my kids" thing - each child in a school is an individual, with thoughts and opinions all their own. "One size fits all" teaching of relative subjects like morality or politics simply won't work.

reply to post by wrathchild

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When I read that it's a public Catholic school I was like WTF?? I've never heard of that but then I see that you're in Canada and sadly I don't know as much as I'd like about your laws and your rights. Now, you can raise hell and rebel and be put into the crowd of the neer do wells that will get overlooked for college recommendations, good grades, leniency in all matters of school affairs etc. or you can do the project with no emotional attachment whatsoever and go through the perfunctory motions and get a good grade. Your daughter will choose her beliefs on her own when she is ready. It's good in a way that the school wants her to be one way and you believe in another. That conflict will teach her to question long held ideas and in doing so it creates another independent thinker. Turmoil makes us what we are.

However, if you want to fight it I'm sure you can raise issue at your PTA board or your town council but just remember making a pro-life poster doesn't necessarily mean your child is now pro-life.

If you're truly a Catholic then I suggest you take a close look at the church's stance on abortion. It’s not really a gray area. The murder of an unborn child is still murder in the eyes of God.
Perhaps you should explain to your child the reality of abortion, including illustrations, and also show her the percentage of women who regret murdering their unborn children after they go through with an abortion.
Or perhaps you should explain that she could have been killed without a chance to experience life if you and your wife didn’t feel ready to take on the experience of having children after experiencing the act of child making.
Hey you know you do have a choice… take you child out of Catholic schools because they’re just teaching her about the horrible truth of Jesus Christ and how he died to save us all from burning for all eternity in hell because of our sins… murder is one of those sins, I think.
Though decision sir…

However, for anybody who is disagreeing with me right now, and I’m sure there are plenty, ask yourself where would you be right now if you’re mommy had flushed you down the toilet… or had you sucked out with a vacuum cleaner… or your spine pierced with a knife before your head came out of her.

According to Catholic teachings, I'd be in purgatory, waiting for Jesus to call my number to decide whether I have overcome the sin his dad filled my soul with for the crime of being descended from Adam and Eve. Eventually that number will roll around and I'd be allowed into an eternity of bliss and contentment.

I don't disagree with you, by the way. What I will disagree with is the idea that abortion needs to be illegal. Women got abortions back before Roe vs. Wade, and they will continue to do so if it is deemed illegal. I would prefer it remain legal, so they at least have access to trained professionals in a medical atmosphere, and aren't holed up in a Motel 6 letting their boyfriends root around in their uterus with a coat hanger.