The Dumbing Of America, page 1

The Dumbing Of America, page 1

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 2 times

Topic started on 12-3-2008 @ 06:36 PM by Master_Wii

"The mind of this country, taught to aim at low objects, eats upon itself." Ralph Waldo Emerson offered that observation in 1837, but his words echo with painful prescience in today's very different United States. Americans are in serious intellectual trouble -- in danger of losing our hard-won cultural capital to a virulent mixture of anti-intellectualism, anti-rationalism and low expectations.

It's a shame that students should have to take remedial classes to get a chance to start regular classes in the univerty they attend.

This article and comments has probably been one of the most interesting I have read in a while.

In my opinion the 'dumbing of America' problem, is not a single issue but really a multitude of problems posing as one.

The first problem is the under-education of the general populace.

The second is that there is a great disparity between those who are well educated and those who are not.

The third is the peculiar and recent US cultural belief that education equals elitism and that not only is ignorance bliss but it is better.

The fourth is that there is exploitation of all of the above rather than remedy.

It is the last item that is probably the most perplexing in that the first three can all be fixed by government and has been done so by numerous governments throughout history.

www.washingtonpost.com...

[edit on 12-3-2008 by Master_Wii]

reply posted on 12-3-2008 @ 06:42 PM by ajmusicmedia

It is indeed a lot easier to control an uneducated population than an educated one. Eastern European coutries were well-educated and when the Eastern block fell, people didn't riot or run to overthrow governments; they knew this would not work.

Cuba has the most educated population in the world and people there act responsibly and don't try to overturn Castro in some wild goose chase. They know the Castrist regime is the best they can have at the moment.

But it's unfortunately not just the US. Canada is in the same boat, only here it's done more underhadedly; hardly anybody sees it happening.

reply posted on 12-3-2008 @ 07:10 PM by Scalamander

ROTFL!!!! Dumbing isn't even a word!!!

Mod Note: One Line or Short Post – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 12-3-2008 by DontTreadOnMe]

reply posted on 12-3-2008 @ 07:48 PM by xander68

reply to post by Scalamander

The dictionary disagrees:

TRANSITIVE VERB: Inflected forms: dumbed, dumb·ing, dumbs
To make silent or dumb.

www.bartleby.com...

reply posted on 12-3-2008 @ 08:17 PM by ProfEmeritus

reply to post by Master_Wii

As someone who spent most of his working life in industry, and the last decade in academia, I can say that I was shocked the first year that I taught at a college full time. The incoming freshmen lacked basic skills in English, math and life skills. Their grammar and spelling was atrocious, many of them couldn't even perform simple calculations without a calculator, and most of them didn't know how to balance a checkbook. These, by the way, were students going into the business field!
The amazing thing was looking at their transcripts. Most of them had A's and B's. The "dumbing down" starts in elementary school and continues through high school. The students are concerned with grades, in fact, that is all they are concerned with. How did we get into this situation?
Well, I think there are several causes.
1.) New technologies have allowed students to produce without thinking.
2.) Teachers Unions have encouraged mediocrity. Those teachers that try to go above and beyond are chastised by other teachers and union reps.
3.) Parents put so much pressure on school boards regarding grades, that the school boards then pressure the administrators, who then pressure the teachers, who then just give in , and give everyone A's and B's. (One student told me that in his high school, the grading system was as follows:
Come to class, do some homework, You get an A
Come to class, you get a B
4.) Concentration on memorization, rather than thinking and learning.
5.) Standardized tests, with multiple choice, true/false, memorization. Why are they so popular? They are easy to grade. No thought is involved on the teachers' part. By the way, many students told me that their high school teachers would go over the tests in advance, and give them the answers. Furthermore, many of them allowed NOTES during the tests!
6.) A precipitous decrease in the amount and quality of homework given to students.
7.) Rampant cheating by students, using text messaging, etc.
8.) Poor role models in real life, where cheating, dishonesty, and "If you can get away with it, do it" attitude, are prevalent.

There are so many more reasons, but suffice it to say, that our educational system in this country is in as much trouble as our economy.

reply posted on 12-3-2008 @ 08:45 PM by GAOTU789

reply to post by ProfEmeritus

That is a guideline to what is happening right there folks.

For anybody really interested in this subject, I recommend that you have a look at John Taylor Gatto, You can find his ebooks on line. Former New York State 3 time teacher of the year who is very critical of the school system in America.

reply posted on 12-3-2008 @ 09:10 PM by bobafett1972

While I do not disagree with this, it isn't the complete truth. Though this is based on my life experience and not supposed facts. I didn't really want to learn until I went to college. I can not say what clicked inside of me but thank god it did. Maybe it was the fact that I actually wanted to be there. It was my choice to learn. Then after college I continued to want to learn new things and expand on things that I already had learned as well.

Though where are we really, when we have an entire generation growing up using internet slang in real life? And we continue to let then get away with it. That mixed with new social norms that every form of media seems to condon: You can do nothing and be a millionaire.

Maybe this is just me rambling or maybe not. Though I disagree with the title; I think it isn't just America that is "dumbing down". But people have to want to learn at some point as well. We, as individuals have to ask questions; have to yearn for knowledge.

It is easy to look around and see this in action. All I have to do is turn on my television and here a so-called news anchor use the word which is not a word, "misremember" and see it and hear it in living color. I am sorry, just because thousands, if not millions of people are doing it does not make for a valid arguement that it should be done.

Then again there are too many issues to list. Teachers can not really teach anymore. They have to walk a fine line as to not upset anyone living in our politically correct, sue happy nation. And they are still out there; teachers that want to teach. That actually do care about the youth of this country.

I would like to think that it is like anything; that it comes in waves. But it seems to only be moving in one direction the last 20 to 30 years. Only time will tell.

~B

reply posted on 12-3-2008 @ 09:36 PM by ProfEmeritus

You have made some excellent points. I had many students like you, students that were not inspired by their prior educational experiences.
One of the things that I tried to do, was tell students exactly why they were learning what I was teaching. I also told them to question me, and don't be afraid to tell me if they disagree with me. I tried to encourage thinking, not memorization. I gave numerous group project assignments, which enabled students to exchange ideas, and learn from each other. I even took them to actual businesses, and had them interact with business leaders, so that they could see what the real world was all about. Student groups had to create their own business enterprise, create a business plan, develop a product or service, and then "market" it to the rest of the groups. Almost all of the students expressed how much "fun" it was. In the process of having fun, however, they learned much more about business than they ever could from a textbook. The students were extremely supportive of my teaching techniques, but as I'm sure you can imagine, I was not very popular with the "pure academics" (those people that inspired the saying "Those that can, do...those that can't, teach"), and the book store was not very happy with my choice of "textbooks", namely paperback books such as "Getting to Yes" by Roger Fisher. I always gave the students advance notice concerning the books we would be using, so that they could get it from addall.com or other resellers, at a fraction of what the bookstore would charge.
As you can imagine, I made a lot of enemies, but NONE of them were students. When students were ready to graduate, I had no trouble placing them in businesses that I had worked with, prior to my "retirement job" in teaching. I still get emails and phone calls from former students that tell me how much our activities in the classroom prepared them for the real world.
I think that the entire system is backwards. Instead of hiring teachers and professors right out of college, I think they should have to go into the real world, and succeed in a real job for 10-15 years, before they can teach.
HOW CAN YOU PREPARE SOMEONE FOR THE REAL WORLD, WHEN YOU'VE NEVER BEEN THERE?

reply posted on 12-3-2008 @ 09:41 PM by Solarskye

The very first ideas of government schooling consisted of moldings people into willing consumers of big business and to transform thinking individuals to unthinking individuals and to make all of it's citizens of choice illiterate and dumb masses.

The only way to control the public is to let them know what the government wants them to know. Poverty is here for a reason and I bet my life that poverty is a result of government un-education. To me government schools are more dangerous than terrorist. How many lives have been wasted in government schools and deaths by shootings. Who's making the money and having the power to control? It sure isn't the people is it? Seems like the politicians have it all figured out. They always give us a little, like the booster check that is going to be given out next month. Oh! thank you government for giving us this money that is really our hard working, back breaking dollars, just so we can fix what you messed up in the first place. Dumbing down America has been happening for a awhile now and will only change when the people in majority has had enough.

reply posted on 12-3-2008 @ 09:47 PM by bobafett1972

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
As you can imagine, I made a lot of enemies, but NONE of them were students. When students were ready to graduate, I had no trouble placing them in businesses that I had worked with, prior to my "retirement job" in teaching. I still get emails and phone calls from former students that tell me how much our activities in the classroom prepared them for the real world.
I think that the entire system is backwards. Instead of hiring teachers and professors right out of college, I think they should have to go into the real world, and succeed in a real job for 10-15 years, before they can teach.
HOW CAN YOU PREPARE SOMEONE FOR THE REAL WORLD, WHEN YOU'VE NEVER BEEN THERE?

I couldn't agree more.

Also, I had a few professors like you. I still, 15 years later speak to them and email them for all that they did for me as well as all of there other students. And sadly, they were not to popular with the other faculty and administrators.

~B

reply posted on 12-3-2008 @ 09:47 PM by Tenebrous

The problem is your not doublethinking newspeak. If you reveiw the facts you will see it is doubleplusgood.

reply posted on 12-3-2008 @ 09:55 PM by ProfEmeritus

Dumbing down America has been happening for a awhile now and will only change when the people in majority has had enough.

However, the internet is the big equalizer. There is so much that you can learn from it. Yes, you need to filter out the nonsense, but there are so many reputable educational sites available at ones' fingertips. I know one student that I had that started his own services business in IT, and was making $65,000 a year, based purely on what he had learned from the internet.
The world is literally at your fingertips. When I was growing up, my access to knowledge was limited to our hometown library, which had more "See Jane run" books, than anything else.
I always told my students that knowledge is power. I still spend a great deal of time on the internet- maybe 1-2 hours a day here, but another 2 hours a day researching things that I always wanted to learn about, but never had the time. I've researched enough to know that keeping your mind active, also lessens the chance of Alzheimer's.

reply posted on 12-3-2008 @ 10:05 PM by Tenebrous

For this entire thread, this is why I can't stand the anti-education threads on here. Knowledge is the ultimate weapon. In North America the majority of population sneers at education, and disdain in youths for school is ridiculous. Even at my college, there are still people who find lack of work ethic and failing and what not cool, and joke and brag about it. Its a sad sad state of affairs.

reply posted on 12-3-2008 @ 10:12 PM by ProfEmeritus

reply to post by bobafett1972

Thank you for being the student that you were. It is students that make our lives worthwhile. Sometimes, people will ask me how many children I have, and I'll reply, oh about 4,000, because those students are like my children, and I am so proud of what they have done with their lives.

What I would say to people that want to teach is the following:

reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 02:17 PM by Holygamer

I think half the problem is the schools, but the other half is simply that kids don't want to learn. They don't care. I dont know whether thats because they feel that the school failed them, or they hear all this negative stuff, but they have become apathetic.

reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 07:23 PM by ProfEmeritus

I think that if the students were shown how what they are learning would help them live a better life, most of them would learn. I also think that not only do teachers have to explain that, but parents also. Telling a student to learn "because I told you so", just doesn't work.
In addition, our school system is teaching the same way that it taught 100 years ago, in many cases with the same results.

reply posted on 14-3-2008 @ 01:44 PM by Swadriboth

I like this thread. : )

I'm curious though; how does homeschooling fit into this?

I agree with the above poster - the lack of thirst for any knowledge whatsoever is definitely one of the main issues, I think. The fact that one of my co-workers, who's in her mid twenties, doesn't have any idea what the Holocaust was, baffles me. But this is common, more common than I'd like to admit.

I was homeschooled for nearly 14 years, and while I regret not experiencing some things, the end result was more than I would have hoped for. But my main appreciation is the fact that I was allowed (even pushed) to go after what interested me. My education was about me and I think that's a very important part of the learning experience. Of course there are things you have to know whether you want to or not, but having a give and take is what makes it enjoyable (at least I think so...)

But I really do believe the core of the issue is the lack of passion for knowledge, for knowing. It seems people are too comfortable in their shells of ignorance to realize there's a more interesting and fascinating world out there, if they'd only look.

reply posted on 14-3-2008 @ 01:47 PM by Holygamer

reply to post by Swadriboth

Home schoolings a double edged sword.

On one hand your getting a more then likely better education, BUT your also not getting exposed to other ideas as often, and may not be achieving your full Platorian scholarly ideals by only being exposed to one teachers views. (usually your parents)

reply posted on 14-3-2008 @ 02:15 PM by Swadriboth

Originally posted by Holygamer
reply to post by Swadriboth

Home schoolings a double edged sword.

On one hand your getting a more then likely better education, BUT your also not getting exposed to other ideas as often, and may not be achieving your full Platorian scholarly ideals by only being exposed to one teachers views. (usually your parents)

In a sense couldn't you be exposed to even more diverse views through books? Oddly enough I don't ever remember my parents actually telling me what to read, there were books to choose from, on all sides of the spectrum.

But I agree, if done incorrectly, the bias can be pretty insane.

reply posted on 14-3-2008 @ 08:45 PM by ProfEmeritus

Homeschooling, like traditional schooling is what you make it. One myth that seems to be prevalent in this country is that the better the college or university(translation-prestige and high tuition), the better the education. Students can get an excellent eduction from virtually any accredited college(and even some that are not accredited). The effort that a student puts into her/his studies will determine the level of education.
Now homeschooling does diminish one aspect of education, and that is the group interaction aspect of learning. It is possible to participate in group learning as a homeschooler, but it requires much more effort and resourcefulness to accomplish that. Since most(I know, not all) homeschool programs certified by the states involve the internet for test taking, and some lessons, small networks could be set up for group discussions and group projects, at the secondary level. It is much harder to accomplish this at the elementary school level, however. I homeschooled our youngest adopted child, because our child was the target of racial and ethic prejudice, which the public school did not make any attempt to stop. (being called the "N" word continuously(Colombian child, dark skinned), and being told that our child should "go back to the country you came from, because we don't need your kind here").
Our child ended up going to a Big 10 University, getting a 4-year degree,
and attaining the Dean's List. Our child was very active in groups at college, and did not seem affected by the lack of student interaction during the high school years.
Even sites like ATS may help broaden a high school homeschooler, although some of the threads get a little rough at times, with flamers, and I'd have to think about that more. I think that may have to be moderated by a parent. I know the mods here do a great job, but since it's "Live TV", so to speak, things get out that may be harmful, before they're cut out.

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