God commanded statues be made and images all throughout the OT...

This is for protestants who think images and relics are so bad... which they are not....



Acts 19:12 (blessed objects of st. Paul which healed people)

and this would reflect why saints relics are kept in our faith.. We have several incorrupt bodies in our church over in France still intact today, most notably Bernadette Soubirous..

God is showing souls that their souls are so beautiful that nothing can decompose them and that they are awaiting the ressurection....

only to a certain few God lets this happen to, mostly the most innocent....
well maybee not, but Bernadette was extremely innocent..


Exodus 25:18 (make two cherubims)

Exodus 37:7 (make two cherubims mercyseat)

2 Pharalipomenon 3:10 ( Two cherubims)

Numbers 21:8 (God told Moses to make a brazen serpent for a sign)

Hebrews 11:21 (adored rod)

2 Kings 6:12 ( ark of God )



there are more, but this should suffice...

You see God uses images, not out of idolatry but out of either a sign or a reminder....

Souls that are strong and have a (sane) mind know how to determine respect from idolatry...

No Catholic worships statues, whoever does is not catholic....

peace.

No Catholic worships statues, whoever does is not catholic....

reply to post by JesusisTruth


I think that just the creation of a statue of a particular person has to be a form of worship.
Veneration of the saints, using statue representations, has to be a form of worship.
We can not even tell, for sure, what was meant by these words, cherabim, and the serpent.
It is a long ways from that, to what you are promoting.
You should just go ahead and admit that the Church knows more than the Bible, and they can do whatever they want to.

Commandment 2:

4: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me

How do we resolve this situation now? I'm confused, unless...

We must understand that the only reason that this was being done was because the people then were an idolaric group. In other words, they liked to make idols and worship them. God, in His infinite wisdom, figured that if they were just going to be that way, that He would have them make an idol that He would bless for them.

This is more of an attempt to curb their disbelief than anything else. By NO MEANS should this be used as a justification for the continued creation of idols, which was the main reason that He made that a commandment in the first place.

TheBorg

I tell you the truth OP. One persons idols are another's signs.

There are no idols in creation which are not ordained by God.

reply to post by TheBorg


...and how are we supposed to know what all is in Heaven, in the earth beneath, and in the water, hmmn?


[edit on 13-3-2008 by Givenmay]

Originally posted by Givenmay
reply to post by TheBorg

 

...and how are we supposed to know what all is in Heaven, beneath the Earth, and in the water, hmmn?

The Heaven is the spiritual counterpart of the 'earth and water' which is seen with the eye. It is the opposite of the physical realm.

The other two describe the duality of the physical world which is divided between the land and the sea. To correct you, it is not beneath the earth, but and beneath in the earth.

It is describing heaven and earth in the present tense as being a singular heaven and a divided earth which lives under the pretenses of good and evil.

No where shall one make an image of something that is false. I wouldn't worry about it because it is given to only those it is given. Let us worry about it.



[edit on 13-3-2008 by ben91069]

reply to post by ben91069


"I wouldn't worry about it because it is given to only those it is given. Let us worry about it"

...you people can be so rude, at times! Your words did'nt explain a thing!

reply to post by Givenmay


Its not my intention to offend you or leave your mind without answer.

It is a description of both heaven and earth.

The earth being divided between the land and the sea and the heavens reflecting the same.

In other words, it is saying when you make and idol on the earth, you are worshiping the outside of the spirit, which divides and separates the heavens and then the the duality in the earth.

I apologize that I cannot explain it to your satisfaction, because this message cannot be presented to you in a plain way, because that would make me an idol or a substitute for God.

In other words, don't worship what you see, worship what is unseen an within you.

JD the church does not know more then the bible..

God specifically gave them power to loose and bind things on earth that the holy ghost reveals to them...


The fact is that st pauls relics were used for healings, this is a fact, and that God commanded many statues to be made in the temple, this is a fact..

you cannot deny this...

we do the same...



peace.

reply to post by JesusisTruth


Exactly. It is when we replace the image as the truth instead of the source as a truth. It is to be a sign to us.

Starring this!

updating this for someone who just made a thread about this stuff..


peace.

Exactly. It is when we replace the image as the truth instead of the source as a truth. It is to be a sign to us


wow ben gets it.

If God commandedMoses to make a brazent serpent a literal statue, and told the israelites to look on it for a (sign) and by looking on the statue you would be cured the why can't our church have statues in them?


It's all about being a sign. so thanks ben.

reply to post by JesusisTruth

I'm curious, though...I still don't get how you can explain away the commandant that TheBorg quoted?
It isn't just talking about not worshipping statues, it is also saying NOT TO MAKE THEM.


ben said this about it:

Originally posted by ben91069
No where shall one make an image of something that is false. I wouldn't worry about it because it is given to only those it is given. Let us worry about it.

But I've got to be honest, like Givenmay, I have no idea what he's talking about.

[edit on 2-4-2009 by babloyi]

The problem is that the symbols are used as tools to blind people. They put all the focus on the idols/symbols and then they do forget the meaning behind them, which I agree is the important thing.

Then, once the meaning is lost and the focus is put on the idol, wolves in sheeps clothing take up that symbolism and surround themselves with it to appear to be about that and a follower etc.

I'm not that familiar with the verses you quote, but I suspect the stories themselves and what he is building is allegorical in itself, which would explain how it wouldn't be against the commandment. But I am not that familiar with it, and Moses gets tons of exceptions.

But for me, it's not so much the symbols themselves I have a problem with, but the way they are used for manipulation. Jesus for example is turned into a false idol by many in this same way, as they focus only on "Jesus", rather than what he is saying and his example. So it's not just physical statues and such being referred to here.

4: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me



Since God commanded statues to be made throughout the OT then he cannot obviously be stupid enough to contradict himself/

and if you look at the paragraph above, it's obvious God is talking about idols that are worshipped, not statues.


" thou shall not bow down before them "

So he is talking about false idols, not regular statues of angels which he commanded to be made.



Now as for badmedia, I agree 100%. it is when they use those signs as idols when it becomes bad.

No disagreement there.

peace.

I've done a bit of studying, and are you sure you are not getting "statues" and "statutes". I seen the mentioned of cherubs and stuff, but when god says to keep them, he is not referring to statues, but to statutes.

Statutes are of course a list of laws/commandments.

For example:

Lev 20:8 And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I am the LORD which sanctify you.