Chi disproved?

YouTube Link

The guy at the end says it was because the guy was a non believer? Please, if Chi was real this guy would have felt something or would have been knocked out... Seems it can knock out a black belt but can't knock out a non believer... What does that even mean?

It means one of three things.

1: The non-believer's Chi was in such a state that his body was no longer even connected to his Chi, and therefore was not receiving either the benefits nor the obstacles offered by acheiving balance and having balance with one's Chi.

2: Chi doesn't exist.

3: The Sensei in the video used up all his energy on the black belt, which is what i would've said.

It means he is exposed as a fraud and manipulator. It means he enjoys money. It means his students have deluded themselves.

reply to post by jcbrownman

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Well.
Doesn't exactly disprove anything..........
The power of belief is said to be very powerful, it seems to me that there should be power in lack of belief.
Some put all of their power of belief towards NOT believing it.
Thusly no working. So that the "debunkers" go on and on.

[edit on 12-3-2008 by WraothAscendant]

I'm betting it is a fraud.........though, I don't know how chi works.....

CHI IS REAL

.....though with all the fraud... who knows what chi is really able to affect or effect?

I suppose I won't slander him as a fraud just yet though...

[edit on 12-3-2008 by WishI]

about that belief comment from the post above mine....

I don't believe in that!

though, I suppose in believing one could focus their intent... which is not the power of belief so much..... but... err... I guess that is powerful!

[edit on 12-3-2008 by WishI]

There might be some truth in what you say... Isn't Chi supposed to be one of the hardest skills to learn and hone? And wouldn't it be Chi that the "disbeliever" would use to counter the Chi of the "master"? Even if this was tthe case it would show that Chi could easily be countered simply by "not believing" which would be easier than trying to direct your Chi... I'd like to see him do the same Chi hit on a small animal like a bird or cat or something... They have no bias and shouldn't have belief either way... If he can knock the animal out then maybe...

that guy in the video is a fraud. Real Chi, IS what allows seemingly normal humans to bumrush through 5 feet of bricks like in the fight science video one can see on youtube, although it's a Discovery channel product. Or take shao lin monks that take spears to the throat that eventually snap and give in to the will of the the monks laranx which should be an easy target for a spear tip. Chi allows them to over come these things in my mind.

I always equated another in a great many examples of the power of the mind and belief.
After all look at miraculous recoveries.
How someone can shut their body down to near zero and recover from it.
Etc etc etc etc etc etc.

The OP does not have a good video on Chi.

The following are much better examples.

First, an intentional deception on the part of Derren Brown in misleading people by saying it is only the mind doing it.

I was a trained hypnotherapist. You cannot do what Brown does with auto-suggestions alone. Chi would have to be involved:

Derren Brown's Touchless Chi Punch Doubles Over Man

Second, a more sincere investigation into someone who has a Gift of Chi and which they try to measure it using electronic equipment. They find that Chi cannot be measured at all with their instruments but they feel the effect of it nonetheless:

Qigong Demo With John Chang

Enjoy.

Superstition exposed as false?

What a surprise.

Going to be a shame when people realize how boring life is, and this is all we got. No energy, no soul, just flesh and bone and no magic powers.

I just watched the video....
Ummm, seems like a steaming pile to me.
Remember, "it's all in your head"...

Exactly.

But it's not even about directing one's belief AGAINST the phenomenon.

"Faith" - or, in this and other similar cases, simple suspense of disbelief, a neutral position of observing, which would've been more than enough - is to the phenomenon involved as the car key is to the car: the small but indispensable element to start the process of ignition. If for any reason you disbelieve the oil is there - or that it serves a purpose - you're not going to be bothered by finding a way of activating it.

The thing is, there are ways of circulating and/or focusing the "chi" (or whatever anyone calls it) that can ONLY be achieved by the preliminary knowledge, i.e. acknowledgment, that "chi" does exist.
It doesn't make "chi" or these methods non-existent; it's just that belief activates the receiving and creative plasticity of the Mind (not quite the same as the brain).

If you don't believe in the existence of a phenomenon, you are not going to acknowledge its existence, no matter what. Even if you perceive certain effects and states that transcend your ordinary existence, you're going to attribute them to something else - anything else. Or simply ignore them.

Besides, the mere fact that, in this day and age, some people still refuse to acknowledge that "chi" (or whatever term is used) even exists and are trying to "find out", is a sad statement about their level of perspicacity and knowledge about the world as it really functions, i.e. beyond the received ideas of yore.

I wouldn't trust such obtuse people with my car - let alone with my "chi"...









[edit on 13-3-2008 by Vanitas]

This is a science forum. If it was the religion or paranormal forum, then MAYBE it would be a sad fact that some people don't believe something and keep looking for evidence of it using methods that can uncover (OBJECTIVELY) whether something exists or *doesn't*.

But this is a science forum. When someone does an experiment that shows that maybe a bit of your belief system isn't real, you have some choices. You can change your belief, you can do an even better experiment (PROPERLY!) to show that the effect does indeed exist (and win a Nobel), or you can complain on a conspiracy website that some people are meanies and are harshing your buzz and refusing to believe stuff. That last option is just sad.

I've been taught by Tai Chi masters. One of them used to do this stuff. I assisted one of his top students and asked him about it. He said there was an effect, but it only worked if you decided to let it.

The other master I worked with, and he was superior IMO, never did the hands-off stuff. Saying that, he could throw me around the room by lightly picking me up with two fingers. He used something other than a physical force.

I also practiced feeling chi in his classes. We circulated it between our hands in one direction or the other. I was able to judge the direction 100% correctly using intuition.

So I have seen Chi at work, and it is real. However, there are lots of charlatans about that poison the well.

yup, time to do some Scientific method.

Be nice to believe in superstitious things, but that doesn't change that this was an experiment, the experiment failed, and the theory needs to be changed and retested, or else its rather bunk.

reply to post by Holygamer

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Yes because everything is open for mankind to dissect. *sarcasm*
There has been possibilities that would vary the outcomes of such experiments. Especially considering the fact we are talking about if the mind has the power a great many people think they DO have.

It's about like two forces trying to move a ball in opposite directions.
They cancel each other out.

Hide behind scientific method all you want.

[edit on 13-3-2008 by WraothAscendant]

reply to post by rizla

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I'm not saying chi isn't real, but if chi is real, why not just use it to move inanimate object. Just like the force in Star Wars.

Or use it to lift a man, a small man, just a centimeter or an inch will be nice.

reply to post by Jazzyguy

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I love it when people use that passive aggressive line to lie.
They say one thing. Then contradict the first part of the sentence in the same sentence.

Simple answer. It doesn't work like that.

reply to post by WraothAscendant

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If something is not able to be achieved by the scientific method, it's being hidden.

We don't need to understand chi, but presumably if somebody is claiming to be able to harness chi, or show proof of it, then it should be able to be conducted in a scientific fashion. We might not comprehend it now, but we should be able to observe it.

If theres anything that science can't be used on, then its one of two things:

A superstition or Lie

or just something science can't figure out yet.


Science has proven an infinite number of times already that it can show us the workings of all aspects of the universe, if we give it time. So I don't see you having any reason to doubt it, unless its a subconscious fear that your favorite superstition may be debunked.

reply to post by Holygamer

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Damn it sounds like you deify the word science or refer to it as if it's a some sort of entity.
But I will give you the benefit of the doubt on this one and lean towards you don't.

Physical empirical science has no way to prove or disprove matters spiritual.
It simply cannot. It deals exclusively in the physical.
We can guess but you cannot prove or disprove such things empirically.

Which would be fine if we didn't have people trying to claim anything not empirically provable or disprovable is simply non-existant which is obviously a egotistical position to take. Given science's limitations.

And like I said. If two forces try to move a ball in two complete opposite directions it will not move.
That is an analogy for the power of belief.
If one person beliefs they can do this with strength of will.
And another believes they can't and there is simply no way the other person can.
Cancels each other out and nothing happens.
Doesn't debunk crap.

But that is provided there is something to the power of the mind.
I lean towards there is some strange things following some strange rules that we can do with our minds.
You obviously don't.
Both are equally valid stances to have given the current state of things.
But both sides tend to forget that and proceed to use their stance as a bludgeoning device. When NEITHER side has the right.

[edit on 14-3-2008 by WraothAscendant]