Any Secret Societies that don't require you to pledge on the Bible?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

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"Best of luck on finding a rabbi who believes in Christ the same way as you. "

That shouldn't be to hard if he believes in Jesus Christ and not some supreme being.

reply to post by Straighten Arrow

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Amazing, the same old sophistry and rhetoric. Care to engage in a converstation that actually addresses facts? I would be more than happy to answer any and all concerns regarding this subject.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

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Do you mean the fact that the main idea of freemasonry is to get men of their faiths together so that they can learn to question them and eventually doubt them? That fact?

Actually, they do believe in 'some supreme being' (Yahweh, among other names) and not Jesus. But feel free to alert us when you think you found someone who you feel thinks differently.

Interesting, and here I was thinking that the main idea of Freemasonry was to fullfill your obligations to God, your neighbor and yourself. I must have missed the one you mentioned, can you direct me to where you have witnessed this?

reply to post by Straighten Arrow

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You have admitted you are trolling. That is all we need to know.

However, the sad thing is someone may believe like you do genuinely and not doing it to troll, so just to clear up any misconceptions:

1) Why did you completely ignore the FACT that the names of God in the bible are numerous? These names that ARE SO AMBIGUOUS that THEY COULD INDEED be CORRECTLY TRANSLATED as Supreme Being? You keep assuming that somehow Supreme Being /= God, and I have shown you that not only is it God, but there is absolutely no reason to think that the phrase doesn't fit with the bible.

Could it be because you know if you acknowledge this, you'll have to stop this simply wrong line of attack?

2) What do you do when you are at _any_ public event and say the pledge of allegiance? The Supreme Court has ruled that the phrase "under God" in the pledge does not refer to the Christian God - it is the God of whoever the person saying it believes in. This is exactly the same principle at work. Do you refuse to do the pledge of allegiance? You better, if you are going to be consistent.

3) Why do you ignore that the Bible admonishes all Christians to test the spirits? Do you conveniently ignore this because it means that yes, people should question things...which goes against your point? Whatever version of Christianity you are preaching from, it is not the version from the Bible.



Straw man. While individual masons may believe this, I know of no teaching in masonry that has ever stated such things. Ever. Find one example. You won't, because your intentionally throwing up straw man arguments to obfuscate.



Oh no, you do a great job of showing how incorrect your anti-masons points are. No need to misconstrue you, your doing it to yourself.

You are baiting on purpose. When I say baiting, it means the use of intentionally deceptive facts or statements that you know to be wrong and that have been proven to be wrong, stated in a way to intentionally provoke a response and get a rise. You, sir, are an expert at baiting. And unfortunately, I am falling for it.

Amazing, he knows exactly how we feel. This, my friends, is the textbook definition of ironic.

There are these lovely websites, and even library books, that go through the masonic ritual line by line. They are everywhere. If you were interested in finding out the truth and not engaging in elaborate sophistry, you would have actually did some research and found the following:



This is the FIRST of the three duties of a freemason (the other two Augustus has mentioned).

This is available online from masonic sources, and in fact even appears in a ritual book that you can buy from my lodge as a non-mason. Would you care to tell me how this (1) conflicts with the bible or (2) causes anyone to question their belief?

"Islamic" secret societies, such as the Shriners, do not. Did someone say that already?

The Old Testament is the official rulebook of Freemasonry though.

Of course, you have to be a Master Mason to become a Shriner, so that will only get you so far...

reply to post by pacificwind

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"There are these lovely websites, and even library books, that go through the masonic ritual line by line. "

Not for me but thanks, I'll have to pass on your offer. I don't want to get the teachings of my church confused with the craft. Meanwhile, feel free to enjoy the perks of your society like special job considerations, promotions, and additional overtime.

Or get your ass slapped with a paddle...?

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Mod Note:

One liners are discouraged. See here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 17-3-2008 by NGC2736]

reply to post by Straighten Arrow

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Straighten Arrow, unless you hadn't noticed, this thread is actually addressing the notion that secret socities, like the Freemasons, are essentially pro-religion. I'm trying to discover whether someone like me would be too anti-religion or not. You have hijacked the thread attempting to argue the exact opposite - that Freemasonry is too heretical.

In short, this is completely the wrong thread for you to be 'preaching' in. You're muddying the waters and making it very difficult for the original discussion to survive.

reply to post by Cythraul

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Yeah I agree, its a classic example of thread derailment by someone who is intentionally baiting. I shouldn't have taken part of it, because this is what he wants. Because if he were really interested in finding out truth and not baiting, he would have actually read the ritual and seen hes completely wrong

Good idea. After all, people can't be trusted to think for themselves, it becomes much too messy and dangerous. The only book we *really* need is the Bible. I say burn the rest!

Methinks it's a little too late for that insofar as you seem to already have an established confusion about Masonry which many have tried to point out to no avail.



Ah, there we go again with the 'all-powerful-boy's-club-and-back-scratching-society' thing. Pity that it doesn't pass an actual sniff test but I don't think any outcome that didn't jibe precisely with your worldview would be acceptable to you anyway.

Enjoy your self-imposed darkness

reply to post by Fitzgibbon

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Brothers...

Seriously..

Lets not forget who Arrow really is.. he derailed the thread and brought us back to the same old bickering with a troll..

I advise everyone to put him on the Black List.

if we get lucky, he will lash out again, and get banned again.

Straighten Arrow,
I going to go into Moderator mode here and say this.

Please Stay on Topic

Your posts here belong in another thread. Maybe one of your own starting. The Topic here does NOT revolve around the somantics you are bringing forth. Period.
This thread is asking a specific question and any more attempts to derail it to what you want to discuss, which is not on topic here, will be eliminated to keep the focus ON the topic.
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As a personal observation, I believe you have little real knowledge regarding Freemasonry and have no interest in learning or discussing anything short of your interpretations, which, in this case, are flawed. You don't have any interest in listening to what these people have to say in defense of their interest and only want to attack them because you seem to think you have it all figured out. In my opinion, you do not.
Start your own thread on the subject you want to discuss. This thread is about something else and any more attempts to derail it will be dealt with accordingly.

Thank you,
Cuhail
ATS Moderator

I am pretty sure that there are plenty of groups that dont require a pledge to the bible! If you can't find one, then start one! i would be more than happy to join whatever you have in mind!