Suicide is a sin...a question

so the basic position of christianity is that suicide is a sin. that's fairly obvious through scripture.

however, i have a question.

in the end times, those who do not receive the mark of the beast die...
so by refusing the mark you die of your own will
this is a form of suicide, is it not?
sure, you may not be directly killing yourself, but the decision to die is yours

how do you reconcile this?

Suicide is not a sin according to the bible. However all life is given to you from God so you can't just throw it away. (that's how I learned it, I'm brought up a Christian but am now being a "I don't knower"). Murder however is a sin. And in a strict tense murdering yourself could be considerd a sin.

However, if you would refuse to be marked and get murderd because of that is a sin of the murderer and not of you.

Originally posted by ambushrocks
Suicide is not a sin according to the bible.

Yes that is correct. It doesnt explicitly state it is a sin.

However all life is given to you from God so you can't just throw it away. Murder however is a sin. And in a strict tense murdering yourself could be considerd a sin.

Yes perhaps that covers this issue?

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Hi, madness!

Actually, I don't see that there is any need of anything being reconciled in regard to suicide and those being killed in the tribulation. Those who will be beheaded in the tribulation for their rejection of the Mark of the Beast and, refusing to WORSHIP the Beast, is not a form of self will suicide. It is however a sign of remaining faithful to the Lord at any cost, even death.

since when is martyrdom considered suicide? You core premise in the original post is inaccurate, for that would also declare plenty of legendary martyrs as sinful suicide cases.

A more accurate example would be the siege of Masada, where almost a hundred people committed mass suicide and burnt down the entire town, to avoid being tortured, raped, robbed and sold into slavery.

I would say thats a much better example of being on the fine line between sinful suicide and unsinful suicide.

If refusing a mark gets you killed, then you have been murdered, it's not suicide.

According the the Church... Suicide is a mortal sin.... God did give them power to lose and bind on earth...

so I think Jdposey got it right. Its only a sin when we have other alternatives, but the mark we will have no choice....

Madness why do you ask this bro.... you know scripture says that many will be made martyrs through death.

peace.

...the whole point of this thread is that martyrdom seems to be a self-righteous form of suicide...

but it's still suicide...

Why is it people accept un-scriptural Catholic teachings as if they are written in stone. The Bible does not say suicide is a sin. Now if anyone here is actually considering committing suicide you should seek psychological attention - there is no shame in saying you need help. Suicide is a bad choice in many cases. But there are many Bible-stories where men of God performed acts that can be considered suicide. Samson asks God to give him enough strength one last time to push several pillars aside and bring the ceiling down on everyone including himself - I guess you might as well call this God-assisted Suicide. Jesus said he could at any time change his mind and ask his father to send legions of angels to rescue him from his fate - one can look at his death as being a suicide. You have to think about these things and not take just anyone's word for it. You have to read the Bible for yourself and not just take my word for it either. The whole point of posting things like this is to encourage people to look for themselves. Many devout Catholics will tell you you cannot get to heaven without being a member of their organization - you can forget the blood of Christ because it is not enough. Do not believe them! Jesus did not cry from the cross "Oh, Pope in Rome, why hast thou forsaken me!" THINK, PEOPLE! What is wrong with this picture? Suicide is a bad decision, and one usually for those who have no hope left. We still have hope. and as for your question about dying for not receiving the mark of the beast, yes, it would be suicide if we had a different choice, but, those who will kill us will give us no other choice. If you choose the mark you will live, if you choose Jesus you die. There will be no "You can spend some time in a recuperation center to think about it." It might be that in the beginning but that would quickly become unavailable as there are too many of us to house. Listen, the murder will happen because they know they will get our possessions and property and any treasures we leave behind. They did it to the Jews by taking the gold out of their teeth and collecting any items they left behind. The deaths of Christians will be no different than that. But rest assured. There will still be Christians on earth when Jesus comes, even though they will slaughter many of us. Two will be lying in a bad, one will be taken the other will be left. Two will be grinding in a field, one will be taken the other will be left. Make no mistake, they will never get away with spilling our blood. The Lord God Almighty sees all and he will take revenge. He says, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay." On that day, they will throw their idols into the caves as the Bible says, and they will beg the mountains to fall on them and hide them from the wrath of God. But worry not, whatever happens will take place slowly like Hitler slowly taking over Germany. first he had to run for office, then he slowly but surely set his plan in motion. At any rate, we Christians know what men are already planning to do. It is their job to make people believe that their actions are not heading in any Biblically Prophetic Direction. Do it slowly and people will barely notice the changes. Do it slowly and people will distract themselves with other nonsense - they won't see it coming. Oh, but, we do, we do see it coming! Jesus said it would come. We've known for several thousand years. The sword will be their main tool even if it sounds impossible. The sword is quick because the line is very very long. And they can't waste any time in conversation with us. It will be nothing more than a choice placed before us. Question is, which is the City of Babylon where we will be slaughtered? How many hills is this City to have? Is it Rome? I'm not sure. Well, at least they still get to keep their precious treasures. A Michaelangelo sculpture must be worth more than a Christian who will only believe in Jesus and nothing else. I hope they enjoy what they get to keep, for a while.

doing something that you knowingly will die from, by someone elses hand, for a belief, is matrydom and not suicide.

I have this last thing to say. It's time to leave this site. I shall not be posting any more material. I have said what was most important. I shall miss you guys. I felt more comfortable here than any other site I have visited. It was designed very well. It was easy to find things. The people were cool. It just couldn't have been a better experience. But I have to move on. Things to do and distractions will be most unwelcomed.

Should Rome make some kind of treaty with the Muslim Nations, they will have a people who are more than willing to kill all Christians. They are very fond of the sword. Has the Catholic Church found the executioners they need? Jesus said, "It will come to pass that those who kill you will believe they are doing God a favor."

Don't be surprised when they seize your churches, your homes, your property, and you yourselves. Don't be surprised when father and mother betray their children, when the members of your household are your enemies, as it happened with the Germans during WWII when their own children gave them up.

Satan has no hope. He has already been judged. He knows what his end shall be. If you join him you are following someone who will fail. He has thousands of years of experience at lying, do not think you can argue with him. He knows every trick, he invented most of them. Know that Jesus said of him, "He was a liar and a murderer from the beginning," thus connecting the act of lying with the act of murder - the two are one. Find a pathological liar and you will find a man willing to kill to cover up his lies. Find a murderer and you will know without even talking to him that he is a follower of lies. Don't trust any man: psychiatrist, policeman, politician, scientist, whatever. If they are liars they are killers. This is not to say we are to show them no respect. Yes, we should show them respect, because they too are made in the image of God. Do not insult or curse the devil either, even if he gives you permission, that is his way of making you curse the image of God.

Never trust anyone whose final destination is the Lake of Fire. Tim LaHaye says those who accept the mark of the beast can still find salvation. Tim LaHaye also accepted money from Sun Myung Moon. Terrible times are coming.

I am not a Prophet. One's predictions have to come true 100% for him to be a Prophet. I do not believe there will be a rapture before the great tribulation, or rather, I am not counting on it. Woman and babies leaving the earth? Hey, I hope it happens, but men should not question God if they are still here and suffer with the rest of us. The thing is to trust God no matter what happens. If you trust men and their predictions, you will be betrayed and lose hope in God. Don't let that happen to you.

I have not hidden my light under a basket. I have failed Jesus many times, but at least I didn't bury my talent. I put his money in the bank and will give it back to him with interest. You don't have to preach to thousands of people every day to please God, just don't hide or bury what he has given to you. "Let your light so shine that men may see your good deeds and glorify your father who is in heaven." "By this they will know that your are my disciples, if you love one another."

And when we stand on that great line waiting to be slaughtered, let's sing songs like "Shall we gather at the river?" and let the whole world know that they have not defeated us, all they have done is condemn themselves.

God bless. Be strong in the Lord. Ask him for wisdom, he will give it to you freely. I asked and I got more than I bargained for. Don't ask amiss. Ask with the right intent and it will be given to you. I asked for wisdom to clear up my confusions. It took a long time before I was able to see that evolution is a complete embarrassment to the scientific community, but, the answer did come. Be patient, the answers are on their way. Especially the biggest answer of them all.

Jesus. Amen.