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posted on Dec, 20 2002 @ 10:39 AM
Quick paradox.
lets say "the truth" is correct in his bonkers beliefs.
that would mean that there is a heaven and he's going to it.
now, the concept of spending eternity with people like him seems more like hell....
and, if his beliefs are correct, thats where I'm going.

as such.

doesn't it follow that if he's correct we're both going to the same place and if so, which is it, heaven or hell?

posted on Dec, 20 2002 @ 11:12 AM
I don't know if truth will go in Heaven ( Only God know it ). But for you, I'm pretty sure that Satan is waiting for you and have a warm seat on his left just for you.

posted on Dec, 20 2002 @ 04:01 PM
Thats not the case, you could actually wind up in heaven and i could wind
up in hell.

I don't know for sure if im going to make it, i hope i will, but i could fall at any moment into
the devils clutches.

Here a couple passages.

"" Not all that say lord lord shall enter the kingdom, but he who does the will
of my father ""

I am no better than you guys, i used to sin massively, curse, watch bad shows (not poragraphy), just bad shows like wrestling, get angered alot, anything
you can name.

I am a huge sinner that has completely changed in a two year span from this stuff.

So don't think im some holy mad man who does not sin, i am human too.

But in the last two years i have cut off major sins for good and will to become a saint which i want all of you to do.

" if i were in heaven "

Look, lupe, i am not a bad guy and am one of the nicest people you would meet, i literally care for individual souls as if
they were me themselves or my brother.


[Edited on 20-12-2002 by Truth]

posted on Dec, 20 2002 @ 06:23 PM
"Truth' States

But in the last two years I have cut off major sins for good and will to become a saint which I want all of you to do.

"Truth" you are out of touch with reality. And you are a bad guy (fundamentalist).
God is not responsible for the death of billions, that you promote this is what makes you the evil one.

posted on Dec, 20 2002 @ 06:42 PM
i guess toltec is God then, since he knows me inside out.

You have the hardest hart ever?

ps. give it a (rest) toltec, you do not always have to play the (beast) *


posted on Dec, 20 2002 @ 11:19 PM
You see "truth" that is the problem with what you accept. I am a person, a human being (flesh and blood) who simply finds what you believe to be obnoxious and based on fundamentalist lies. It took less than two or three days of telling you off, for you to make a comment, which passes judgement on me. That what I say is related to your impression of the "beast".

For you "truth" thinking is a threat, believing alternatively to what you believe is considered dangerous. Freedoms of thought are simply too scary for you to accept. "Truth" the beast as you call it is related to our baser tendencies, the desire to lash out and condemn others in order to make we seem more important.

I do not think you are, or will ever be a saint that I feel that way does not make me evil. But that you want to call me evil because I feel that way points to something inherently wrong with you.

Your the one with a hard heart which is prepared to condemn someone juts because he or she disagrees with you. And keep this in mind "truth" I do disagree with you.

You inherently promote the idea that God is a mass murderer, you present the notion that mankind must conform to a specific system of belief because of your paranormal experiences. You admonish others due to the paranoia of your end of the world scenarios and in no way do you present an argument, that is consistent or the result of anything based on tangible facts.

"Truth" besides Brian no one else at this site is coming from the context of being above human, which is with the exception of you. You claim to be no better that us and in the same post you feel that you will one day be a saint. That makes you either a hypocrite or a fool, personally my tendency is to believe that latter.

posted on Dec, 21 2002 @ 12:12 PM
then you are a hypocrite too for calling others fools.

But, your not evil toltec and i dont think you are.

I (will) to be a saint which we are (all) called to do.

god expects nothing else.


posted on Dec, 21 2002 @ 12:17 PM
Why do you have to wait to be a saint? If you call upon the name of God's Son, accept Him as your Savior and live according to the desires of God, you aree not already a saint?

posted on Dec, 21 2002 @ 01:17 PM
I never said you do have to wait.

But this is where we part ways on this matter, i literally believe that
god institued the new sacrafice of the eucharist which gives us sanctifying grace.

thats why alot of catholics i believe were able to suffer being fed to the lions and being burned
alive because they had the eucharist to death.

Plus i read on history about the eucharist causing a womens toungue to have blood on it after
she recieved communion.

It gives out literal grace and the holy spirit.

Are beliefs are different.


[Edited on 21-12-2002 by Truth]

posted on Dec, 21 2002 @ 11:42 PM
Funny thing about Physics is that the concept of the Halo can be understood in relation to the wave function, these in regards to electron spin (something I am at present working on).

"Truth" while I still disagrees with your interpretation of the bible. I have to admit you do seem to be a real Christian as well as an adult.
Keep in mind that to my culture Jesus is accepted as our first Emperor. To us after he accended (as a result of having been risen from the dead). He presented himself to our culture and restored the most ancient of ways (he also had children).

I am a Christian truth, despite the fact that I do not fall into a category you would tend to accept (by the way I am not a Mormon) what you think. (To an extent) as valid. Furthermore, understand this the Egyptian culture was not inherently evil. It existed in a time what such things as Human sacrifices were seen as valid. Osiris was a force, which made such thinking a thing of the past. Do you know what a Setian is truth? Centuries ago it was an issue, an issue which was present in all cultures (at that time).

Today we struggle to overcome our differences (and that is very important). The future is something, which has not happened yet. As a reuslt in the present we are the forces which can evoke change. My impression is that mankind is not required to (at this time) suffer the pain brought about by an inherent misinterpretation of Gods plan.

There are in reality dead American Buddhist truth, which died as soldiers to protect this country. All this world needs is recources to get it back on the right track. .

posted on Dec, 22 2002 @ 07:08 AM
I myself have been christened a Catholic, yet I consider myself to be some sort of atheist. I am of the belief that God does not exist in any manner, shape or form. The concepts of Heaven and Hell mean nothing to me (We have been led to believe that people such as Kruschev and Lenin went to hell.. yet they did amazing things for their country).

In my opinion, the scientific solid evidence that dinosaurs etc. existed is far more convincing than being handed a book and told to use my 'faith' to guide me to the arms of 'God'. I myself would prefer to curl up with a Clancy or Archer novel than own a bible, despite my christian up-bringing. The belief of God is no longer evident in todays society, and the wrath of God is even less prevalent.

Having said all that, I'm still puzzled as to the circumstances surrounding our arrival. The bible is a hot potato amongst several christianity spin-offs, some calling it a book of metaphors yet some insisting it is to be taken as is, not read into in any way. I cannot see convincing points from either argument, so I am left with the point of view that we are here because we are.. there is no real explanation, just a whole bunch of coincidences. Is that really the case? Will we ever find out?

posted on Dec, 23 2002 @ 11:52 AM
That we'll all find out one day....hehe, ...the day we die.

For me, religion and religious books are equally as fascinating as thrillers, etc. But, in studying other religions, I keep seeing the same old thing. Hypocracy. Each one espouses that only their followers will have eternal life, and that all the others on the Earth are doomed to oblivion. So, if any one of those religions are correct, then the "being" in charge doesn't care a damned about humanity in general, only about "his" followers. Given that, such a "being" is unworthy of my worship.

posted on Dec, 24 2002 @ 06:00 AM
Gazrok, I suggest you listen to an old song... i think it was called 'On My Side', by Bob Dylan or Jimi Hendrix or someone like that, way way before my time. The concept is interesting, telling two sides going to war with ''God" on their side.

posted on Dec, 24 2002 @ 07:38 PM
Heaven is big enough for the both of you.

Don't worry... you have no idea what lies beyond... so just relax and enjoy the ride for the rest of eternity... but don't get too comfortable

P.S. There'll be people just like you there, too.

posted on Dec, 24 2002 @ 07:50 PM
I'm wondering something.

So if "Truth" 'saw' visions or dreams of impending danger, how does he claim it to be so accurate.

A good question was raised recently...

Truth... have you ever had a dream where you were having sex or something close to it?

We'll say yes.

Here's my point... is that dream inherantly good or evil? No. The point is that your mind is trying to figure things out. You want to have love in your life, sex, marriage, fantasies, fun, eroticism.... none of that is evil in itself.

Now lets look at your prophetic dreams...

You saw the dawn of chaos and the end of mankind. So what? I've had plenty of dreams like that. I would claim your revelations to be more of the "stuff" of 'mental conditioning.' Look into psychology sometime. You'll find that we condition ourselves non-stop throughout our lives. If we think something bad is going to happen, we spawn FEAR! Now, since we loath fear, we do whatever it takes to remove that fear. You found God... which is great... but now you seem to be spreading that fear as if it were real.

If your dream was real, then so were your dreams of sex. If that was the case, you are probably a very "unclean" person, as far as your faith is concerned. You've probably also had violent dreams, and other sinful experiences in your dreams, but I'm sure you didn't take them so strongly. There is a purpose for all this. Your brain has to send you in directions to make sure that you continue to grow. Anything that doesn't grow is 6 feet beneath the soil. That's right... dead. So take your dreams with a grain of salt. I wish you the best of luck in your continued growth in the future, but ... please... relax!

posted on Dec, 24 2002 @ 08:05 PM
having fun, sex, fantasies, (is) evil and i stay away from it.

I had already told god im taking a life long celebacy for him.

And no i have not had god tell me anything, and have not had dreams of destruction.

And you compare having sex dreams with dreaming of christ in blood?

having sex dreams ultimately comes from watching horrible movies or shows.

I literally went 18 strait years not knowing who christ was, when i vowed to give up massive sins and
live for him i started dreaming of christ, the dreams have stopped.

One was dreaming of christ in up to my knees in blood walking behind christ and alot of people in white robes, christ was in the front
and we all were walking in blood up to our knees.

This you compare to sex dreams?

This was a vivid message and the only dream i can remember so vividly.

And this dream happened when i did not know the man christ and who he was, i thought he was gods friend
just two and a half years ago.

protector, merry christmas.


[Edited on 25-12-2002 by Truth]

posted on Dec, 24 2002 @ 09:04 PM

Honestly, yes I am comparing the dreams. I have dreamed of heaven, hell, sex, violence, fun, weirdness, movies, shapes,...anything.

Dreams are normal. If I dreamed of seeing Christ nearly drowning in blood... I'd be freaked out, but I'd still use a level head about it. I'd then dream of a boat to rescue the poor guy. I'd wake up and know that I'd need to search for some answers, because my head sure seems to be asking questions... but I would still be realistic about it.

"having fun, sex, fantasies, (is) evil and i stay away from it. "

I think you've got this all wrong. Having fun isn't evil. Neither is sex, neither are fantasies. Our perceptions and uses of these things can become evil.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying I'm a wild, immoral SOB. I am saying that you should use a level head. Going 18 years without Christ is not a long time. Put yourself in the shoes of a 50 year old who loses his entire family and wonders "why". Be Gene Simmons on the day he went to see John Edwards, where he finally started asking himself the question, "is there life after death?" Look at your life and see how much of it you have left to live and experience and enjoy. Are you enjoying yourself? Or do you find yourself constantly fighting and arguing with everyone because they are not sharing your messages/beliefs.

Remember, when you open your eyes from a dream, it is a brand new day. God gave that to you "everyday!" Maybe that was the message, plain and simple. Put away your BibleHammer and smile. At this rate, one day you'll only hate God more for your own shortcomings. You just need more guidance. Consider this: People like Jesus inspired peace, but people who followed him inspired war. If anyone is to blaim for the horrors of the world, it's the person who stares back at you in the mirror.

You may think I'm trying to tempt your mind with evil, but I'm merely trying to show you "realism."

You know, there are two types of prayers. The ones where you talk... and talk... and talk...
and the ones where you both talk and listen.

Which do you practice? I see you talking and talking, ... but no listening. The world isn't full of devils, the world is full of people. You aren't full of evil, you're full of choices. The best thing that you can do is choose the greater good and the lesser evil in any situation. How can God ask for more from you?

Please feel free to question my faith. It currently stands on shakey grounds, but none the less... I will always believe in God, inspite of the details.

posted on Dec, 24 2002 @ 09:17 PM

Originally posted by Truth
i started dreaming of christ, the dreams have stopped.

One was dreaming of christ in up to my knees in blood walking behind christ and alot of people in white robes, christ was in the front
and we all were walking in blood up to our knees.

This was a vivid message and the only dream i can remember so vividly.

And this dream happened when i did not know the man christ and who he was, i thought he was gods friend
just two and a half years ago.

isn't it an old suspicion that if you saw God speak to you in your dreams, it wasn't God, but rather, satan?

posted on Dec, 25 2002 @ 02:33 PM
well protector, what you say ive heard many times.

having fun and being immoral are completely different.. You can be moral
and have fun, but you cannot be immoral and have fun that does not offend god in
the sense of (sinful) fun.

if you think im depressed because of my bible hammering, im not, i have fun, and i have perfect peace
in god, do not worry on any evil.

I am 100% grounded in what i believe for miracles i have not talked about in here and i (know) christ is the lord.

I have heard every false thing about christ and i still believe 100%.

yes, i also listen to every word i hear..

So protector, im glad you believe in god, but don't think worshipping jesus 100% consist of some kind of
un fun journey in life.

Fun for me is saving souls, and loving everybody, and doing good for others.

btw, merry christmas too.

echelon, god did not talk to me in the dream, it was just a message of walking through blood.

Also satan cannot force dreams on you, he can only appear and do wonders, he is limited.

And in the bible it says sometimes god infact does send dreams to men and women, and in the last days it will be like this.

mery christmas to you echelon.


[Edited on 25-12-2002 by Truth]

posted on Dec, 25 2002 @ 02:46 PM
all right, Truth.
thanks for clearing things up.

merry christmas to you too.

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